Thoughts on Gigantism

[Nauvran]

Well if you cant get a good amount of detailing on a small ship then you simply need to practice more.
It's easy enough to get some good details on small ships and it is actually mostly better to practice on smaller ships as you will find out how to place the detailing without ruining the ship.
So the "size for details" argument is not holding.

 

[Edymnion]

I thought this was a space game? why is the necro magic so strong?

People just can't win around here.

If they post something on the same topic, they get yelled at for not using Search. If they use Search, find an old topic and revive it, people yell about necros.

Oi!

 

[Asvarduil]

There's a slightly bigger problem, that hopefully the RP updates will help with:

one man controls the universe with his/her 4k doom machine

In a weird way, in the current state of this game, every ship is technically a one-man fighter. Just some one-man fighters are way bigger, more powerful, and more resilient than others. That's one of the balance problems, right there

The other is how easy it is to make planet-killers. On a server I used to play on before I "quit" for a while, it got to the point where everyone had a planet-killer. In reality, if you want to explode a planet you have to pour energy into the planet greater than the amount of gravitational binding energy, but without that delivered energy actually piercing the planet. That's why the Death Star destroying Alderaan makes anyone who knows physics giggle a little - planets are not made of Explodium!

TL;DR - In StarMade, the reason fighters are useless is every ship is a fighter when you get down to it. Further, the laws of physics in StarMade are completely and absolutely @#$%ed up.

 

[refirendum]

Either let necro posts free or let ppl spam with new threads. Sheesh. And on topic I build big because I like large spaces for interiors. It lets me build in amenities for a large amount of crew, gives me potential to build small towns inside ships complete with residential, governmental, military, and commercial districts.

 

[Edymnion]

And lets face it, most scifi space ships are big.

The Enterprise D is 650m long. A star destroyer is 1.6km long. A Peacekeeper command carrier from Farscape is 8.7km long. The Lexx is 10km. A super star destroyer weighs in at a hefty 19km!

If you want to make a 1:1 reproduction of your favorite scifi ship, you have to build big, and even then its probably going to have to be scaled down.

 

[Nauvran]

And lets face it, most scifi space ships are big.

The Enterprise D is 650m long. A star destroyer is 1.6km long. A Peacekeeper command carrier from Farscape is 8.7km long. The Lexx is 10km.

If you want to make a 1:1 reproduction of your favorite scifi ship, you have to build big, and even then its probably going to have to be scaled down.

That is just a preference, as you said the ships most likely need to be scaled down if you want it ready this year.

 

[KingofCalamity]

Everyone gets mad at big ships eating their smaller ship.... well... what did you think they ate?

Not be a troll but I couldn't resist. To continue what I said earlier, Gigantism isn't a trend. Making larger ships is the natural progression, once the game reaches a more polished end I'm sure there will be some form of balance to help those small ships make a useful impact. (Like AI fighter squadrons)

refirendum said it clearly, most large ships that I've seen that aren't doom cubes are mostly for RP purposes and only have turrets and guns to make them useful for faction battles or for defense against the occasional pirate attack. That's not out of the norm. While I've designed massive ships that were for nothing more then cutting ships in half, they were thrown onto the pile of "What Ifs" because they had no place in the game. I know I'm beating a dead horse when I say it, but if you have a problem with someone blowing up your little ship, build a bigger ship and nuke them. Then go back to building your little ships. Even though this can be hard as hell on a sever without factory bonus.

 

[Edymnion]

If anything, gigantasism will never go away for one simple fact.

Only powerful factions can build them. They're basically phallic, whoever has the biggest ship on the server is king of the mountain because they had the time and the resources to actually be able to build and maintain that mofo. Newbies and small factions simply can't have sector spanning titans because they don't control enough resources to actually make one happen.

And I will admit, I am guilty of this as well. The new faction home base I'm building now is huge. Millions of blocks, bounding box is over 1 cubic kilometer, the section that I will portion out into just cargo bays for long term storage is bigger than my entire current station. I want people to fly by and go "Holy crap!".

 

[Nauvran]

If anything, gigantasism will never go away for one simple fact.

Only powerful factions can build them. They're basically phallic, whoever has the biggest ship on the server is king of the mountain because they had the time and the resources to actually be able to build and maintain that mofo. Newbies and small factions simply can't have sector spanning titans because they don't control enough resources to actually make one happen.

And I will admit, I am guilty of this as well. The new faction home base I'm building now is huge. Millions of blocks, bounding box is over 1 cubic kilometer, the section that I will portion out into just cargo bays for long term storage is bigger than my entire current station. I want people to fly by and go "Holy crap!".

Everyone can build a large ship the only difference is how long it will take.
You can easily take down larger ships if you have someone to work with, one single large titan does not rule the server.
Starmade is really not just about who got the largest vessel, even though the combat mechanics and flight system is still quite barebone and simple it still does take it's man/woman to master the combat.

Newbies can make ships the same size if they put as much or more time into it than those large factions.And really how many are actually using ships that are 1km in one direction?

 

[Edymnion]

Everyone can build a large ship the only difference is how long it will take.

And by the time you can, you're not going to be a newbie anymore, and you're going to have built up to the point where you can quickly and easily build on that scale.

Nobody is going to be building a titan using nothing but their starting blocks.

Having one means you have been around for quite some time and are well established. Yeah, anyone can get one if they put the time and the effort into it. That doesn't mean it isn't a status symbol though.

Anybody can own a Ferrarri, its just a matter of time for them to save up enough to buy one. Doesn't make it any less of a status symbol though.

 

[therimmer96]

And by the time you can, you're not going to be a newbie anymore, and you're going to have built up to the point where you can quickly and easily build on that scale.

Nobody is going to be building a titan using nothing but their starting blocks.

Having one means you have been around for quite some time and are well established. Yeah, anyone can get one if they put the time and the effort into it. That doesn't mean it isn't a status symbol though.

Anybody can own a Ferrarri, its just a matter of time for them to save up enough to buy one. Doesn't make it any less of a status symbol though.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but are you actually complaining about there being some sort of endgame rather than nothing to do past leaving spawn? The way this post reads makes it sound like you are against titans because they are something to work towards :/

 

[lilheartless]

People just can't win around here.

If they post something on the same topic, they get yelled at for not using Search. If they use Search, find an old topic and revive it, people yell about necros.

Oi!

no somewhere there is a line there is a difference between starting a new I think we need chairs thread in the suggestions forum when the second from the top thread is Chairs and how they could be implemented and the 9th thread from the top is also Chairs we want them NOW, and bringing back a thread from literally a year ago.

I agree that people should try to use the search function to make sure there is no recent relevant discussions already going on however I also think there is merit in starting a new discussion with a clean slate rather than trying to bring back the dead.

And finally I was more or less just joking anyways, I didn't think i came off as hostile or confrontational as a matter of fact I didn't even quote the person who necroed the thread.

 

[Edymnion]

I'm sorry if I misunderstood

Yeah, I think you did misunderstand.

I said (or at least meant to say) that gigantism, the tendancy to build really big stuff, exists in part because it is a status symbol. People with really big stuff are usually the most powerful players on a server. Nauvran said that anybody could do it, I replied that by the time anybody could do it, they're not just anybody anymore.

They're a status symbol because they are difficult to get, so no matter what else happens, bigger is always going to be seen as better simply for the purposes of showing off. Hence gigantic builds aren't going away.

 

[therimmer96]

Yeah, I think you did misunderstand.

I said (or at least meant to say) that gigantism, the tendancy to build really big stuff, exists in part because it is a status symbol. People with really big stuff are usually the most powerful players on a server. Nauvran said that anybody could do it, I replied that by the time anybody could do it, they're not just anybody anymore.

They're a status symbol because they are difficult to get, so no matter what else happens, bigger is always going to be seen as better simply for the purposes of showing off. Hence gigantic builds aren't going away.

ah, I understood you're point, just thought you're against them when you don't appear to be

Fair enough :D

 

[Edymnion]

ah, I understood you're point, just thought you're against them when you don't appear to be

Fair enough :D

Oh hell no, I'm still pissed that my half finished titan can't load it's design into my shipyard I custom build just for it because of the invalid entry error thing!

Dafudge am I supposed to do with a shipyard over a kilometer long if I can't finish building my titan in it?

 

[therimmer96]

Oh hell no, I'm still pissed that my half finished titan can't load it's design into my shipyard I custom build just for it because of the invalid entry error thing!

Dafudge am I supposed to do with a shipyard over a kilometer long if I can't finish building my titan in it?

Do what the rest of us do and throw it away and start again! You're doing something wrong if you're not on your fifth iteration of a large project

 

[Edymnion]

Do what the rest of us do and throw it away and start again! You're doing something wrong if you're not on your fifth iteration of a large project

Nah, I really liked where it was going.

I read somewhere that it was probably the logic I had set up that was causing the problem, what I need to do is spawn it into single player creative, strip out the logic, and re-save it to another blueprint.

I had it half done before the shipyard update, and its currently sitting as a filled blueprint.

 

[therimmer96]

Worth a shot, but create a backup of the blueprint and then delete the logic.smbpl from the BP folder. Should remove all links on the ship, including weapons, but they should be easy to replace.

 

[Edymnion]

Worth a shot, but create a backup of the blueprint and then delete the logic.smbpl from the BP folder. Should remove all links on the ship, including weapons, but they should be easy to replace.

Oh lawdie, I'd never get the logic wired back together right without starting over from scratch.

The bay doors are blast doors, not rail. I have it set up to where you press the wireless button in the ship, the bay door opens one row at a time, a giant glorified CD tray ejects and undocks you, retracts, and then the rows of blast doors close in reverse order. And all that logic is really close together...

 

[Nauvran]

Now that I think about it, last time I saw a ship large enough to be a titan it was on EE with Joelbrisco, a single person flying around killing people in his massive fridge.
Large factions dont really use titans that much as they are using medium sized ships in fleets to take down their prey