Thought experiment/discussion on power 2.0 hull shape

[jayman38]

Interesting one. How about swapping the secondary reactor and the top left chamber so that damage to the left is less likely to take out all reactors, and the two right hand chambers get closer to a reactor?

Sounds fine to me. I consider such a tightly-knit ship doomed whenever the shields drop.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

It's always going to just be a big trapezoid or spaghetti.

Spaghetti meta isn't just a problem with the power system, it's a problem with the HP system. Armor being a liability for being hit is ridiculous. But of course, Power 2.0 makes the problem even worse because now you need to put two things as far away as possible. It was completely the wrong direction to go; systems being most of the ship should be the liability.

 

[Jojomo]

But of course, Power 2.0 makes the problem even worse because now you need to put two things as far away as possible. It was completely the wrong direction to go; systems being most of the ship should be the liability.

If you were already putting things as far apart as possible then now being required to isn't making things worse. Spaghetti meta was invented/discovered in power 1.0, it isn't a result of power 2.0.

 

[Nickizzy]

Step Three: All systems (weapons, shields, thrusters, turret docks and enhancers, etc) should require a conduit connection.

Why not just stablizers and reactors(and chambers)? Needing conduit connections kills floaty designs. I guess it would work if we had an "extender" that had high resistance(Or some other limiting method) but allowed you to have invisible conduits to a point x far away. So it would be
E) (F
Where E is the extender block, ) is the end of the main ship, and (F is the floater with systems in it. You would need an ending conduit and then route that to the systems, but you could still have functional floaty sections on ships.

I like the idea of having big conduits between system blocks. It incentivises interiors, with the spaced armor/hull coat, system clumping, so scanning can scan for power and thrusters possibly, and even better recognition of target areas on a ship.

 

[Jojomo]

Why not just stablizers and reactors(and chambers)? Needing conduit connections kills floaty designs. I guess it would work if we had an "extender" that had high resistance(Or some other limiting method) but allowed you to have invisible conduits to a point x far away. So it would be
E) (F
Where E is the extender block, ) is the end of the main ship, and (F is the floater with systems in it. You would need an ending conduit and then route that to the systems, but you could still have functional floaty sections on ships.

I like the idea of having big conduits between system blocks. It incentivises interiors, with the spaced armor/hull coat, system clumping, so scanning can scan for power and thrusters possibly, and even better recognition of target areas on a ship.

There is a thread for Lecic's suggestion here

 

[nulitor]

Is capsule stacking meta in armoring?
If I remember well it allows to stack tons of protection in a very small volume trough dockstacking of ships(basically you dock 100 capsule armor ships and then you place capsule within each block of your ship and out of the ship thus basically making each block volume as tough as if it had 2 advanced armor blocks within it)
Basically the advantage was not toughness but rather that it was insanely cheap(like 50 times cheaper than armor for a given amount of protection) and so that you could place it on each drone of your fleet.(but I guess that spaghetti protection might be more efficient)
You could try capsule stacking armoring on the ship you want to build: your ship is too small for having armor effects so in fact capsule is better per mass than advanced armor and it is extremely cheap(so if you want to use your ship as a drone it is cool)
the main disadvantage is that fleets of those drones kills the server quickly.(faster than regular drone fleets because they have docked stuff but it might be less lethal against servers than fleets of drones with point defense turrets)

 

[Zoolimar]

Isn't scaffold more effective than capsule ? Same mass but 7 times the HP.

 

[Lecic]

Is capsule stacking meta in armoring?
If I remember well it allows to stack tons of protection in a very small volume trough dockstacking of ships(basically you dock 100 capsule armor ships and then you place capsule within each block of your ship and out of the ship thus basically making each block volume as tough as if it had 2 advanced armor blocks within it)
Basically the advantage was not toughness but rather that it was insanely cheap(like 50 times cheaper than armor for a given amount of protection) and so that you could place it on each drone of your fleet.(but I guess that spaghetti protection might be more efficient)
You could try capsule stacking armoring on the ship you want to build: your ship is too small for having armor effects so in fact capsule is better per mass than advanced armor and it is extremely cheap(so if you want to use your ship as a drone it is cool)
the main disadvantage is that fleets of those drones kills the server quickly.(faster than regular drone fleets because they have docked stuff but it might be less lethal against servers than fleets of drones with point defense turrets)

Capsule stacking is only a meta for disposable drones. It quickly grows useless at large sizes because you need so many that it becomes impossible to even render the ship, since as they are transparent blocks every single one of them is loaded at all times. Also, clipping is an exploit. A lot of servers ban these sorts of things for being extremely detrimental to the health of the server.

Note that clipping capsules is not actually necessary for them to be useful as drone armor. Sponge armor actually becomes a bit more effective when it is in its unclipped form because it increases the surface area of it, making it harder to penetrate with cannons and beams due to shifting angling, and making it stronger against missiles by making them detonate much further away.

Isn't scaffold more effective than capsule ? Same mass but 7 times the HP.

Rock capsules are multitudes cheaper than scaffolding. The only things they're used for are paint and carved rocks, and you get 30 of them for every rock you mine, and asteroids can have tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of them.

Basic hull actually makes a much better block for sponge tanking than scaffolding, also. They cost the same to produce, and it has benefit of having less SHP (less damage to the ship when destroyed) and having an additional 50 AHP on top of having the same 75 BHP.

Capsule tanking relies on sponging damage, using a sheer number of blocks to absorb penetrating fire. The actual block HP of them matters very little, the tactic would work with 1 HP blocks.

 

[nulitor]

Isn't scaffold more effective than capsule ? Same mass but 7 times the HP.

Asteroid rock capsules have 50hp and 0.01 mass while scaffold have 75 hp for 0.01 mass.
So they have 1.5 times more hp.
Advanced armor without effects have 1400 hp((250 + 100 armor hp)*4 due to reduction) and weight 0.25
So without mods capsules have for 1250 per 0.25 advanced have 1400 per 0.25 mass and scaffold have 1875 per 0.25 mass.
Scaffold without mods is the best per mass advanced is the best per mass with mods(as long as it is not facing punch through or other similar weapon mods).
And capsule is the best per $ and is not much less efficient than advanced armor without mods.
So the lesson is : use advanced armor only if you use mods or want high density without stacking and never ever use any armor under advanced.
Use capsules if you want to have ships with armor and do want to economize money and use scaffold if your ultimate priority is health per mass and that you do not want to use defensive mods.
Scaffold is indeed a good block if you can spare the money.(not as good as advanced armor with mods but it is not always convenient to put mods on a small ship)
the reason why using basic or standard armor is a bad idea is the following:
Standard armor have 729.17 hp(counting the added armor) per 0.25 mass while basic armor have 625 hp per 0.25 mass
if you plan to take the first hits with advanced armor and use those low level armor to store armor it is still a bad idea: hull now gives your ship 1375 hp per 0.25 mass but it is less efficient in practice due to how armor sometimes works(breaking a block with stuff like punch through allows to cause extremely high damage to armor compared to the hp of the block) and heavy armor gives less than basic in this use case.
Now the thing is that I through about using capsules as structure hp storage: make a whole lot of spaghetti of capsules spreading on gigantic areas for distracting shots and having structure hp that takes many hits to break.(since you can only break some blocks at each shot and that there is a whole lot of them spread)
You can make a drone with absurd volume since volume is not what costs in a construction so why not make spaghetti drone that are cheap and thanks to huge volume can have good powergen(since now it does not cost much generators it costs more space and space is free) and thus good weapon systems.