The difference between greifing and open warfare.

[EpicFailLord123]

Alright folks some people keep getting open warfare and greifing mixed up. I am here to explain the difference. Open warfare is when you indiscriminately obliterate all ships of the other faction, given they are being piloted, and the owner is attacking you. Greifing is when you sneak around like a coward and destroy peoples ships regardless of wether or not they are hostile or being piloted.

So yeah that is my take on it.

 

[FlyingDebris]

I\'ve seen some... err... decent sized fleet battles... they were VERY open in attacking me. I still have nightmares....... *shudders*

 

[EpicFailLord123]

A: you should have used your common sense and stayed away
B: which side were you on? you should have shot back :3

 

[fdshfn]

Your definition of griefing sounds oddly similar to my definition of proper gameplay...

 

[EpicFailLord123]

Sooo your supposed to run around killing everybody and stealing as much as you can behind everyones backs?

 

[King Chameleon]

but like fdshfn said that could just be a type of gameplay that some people choose. Like stealth/guerrilla attacks, instead of 2 massive fleets bombing eachother.

I think there should be additional infrastructure, maybe something like in Planetside 2; where there are invincible areas in which only that faction may put their stuff in (this would get challenging when new factions want space however...).

I think, at the moment there is no way to differentiate between just forms of battle and griefing, unless some kind of rules were put in place.

 

[McDili]

Where some people think certain playstyles are valid, others think it\'s a form of griefing.



I say let it be up to the server admins to decide what is and isn\'t griefing on their own server.



To give an example of my own stance, I think griefing is when you destroy a ship/structure of a player that isn\'t online. If they have turrets that just start firing at you, then it\'s free game. But if not, then I think it\'s kinda goofy.

I mean if I logged out in a place I thought was safe, and by some random chance another player found it and destroyed it, I would be discouraged from playing when I log back in.



Other than that, it\'s all free game to me. If both parties are online and at war, then both parties should understand the risk of running into their opponents.

 

[Trollerbobman]

In my eyes, Griefing is the way of the coward, and ship vs ship battles are the honourable way.

 

[Theck]

For me griefing it\'s when someone does something only for trolling pursposes and not ingame motivations. The action may be the same, it\'s a matter of intention.

Also, as McDili said, I don\'t usualy destroy or take ships where the pilot it\'s offline, but I think it\'s something \"extra\" because bases (and specialy home bases) are there for something. But if I\'m on an \"open warfare server\", I think it\'s logical that someone destroys every ship, specialy if it\'s from the rival faction, that encounters.

 

[Qweesdy]

Hi,

If your ship is left in a safe place then other players can\'t attack it and griefing isn\'t possible.

If your ship is not in a safe place then AI pirates and other players should attack it, salvage it, and sell everything for profit.

The only problem here is people whining about griefing simply because they don\'t understand the difference between \"safe\" and \"unsafe\".

There are only 2 types of \"safe\" places:

a) Protected sectors; but only if your ship is physically tied to a shop (e.g. build a loop of blocks from your ship, around the shop and back to your ship, so that your ship can\'t be pushed out of the protected sector)

b) Docked at a faction home base; but only if you can trust that faction.

Everything else is unsafe.

 

[HadrasVorshoth]

My personal ruling is that war is an agreement to disagree with another player/faction, and that three things must occur for any attack on another\'s ship in official warfare to take place.

1. A declaration of war to a high ranking member of your intended target. This is for fair play. Essentially \"I will destroy you, but I am telling you to make it an honourable act legal in the eyes of the multiverse\"

2. No harming of innocents in the process of \'official\' warfare. People unrelated to the battle are not to be harmed, under my imaginary Geneva Convention against the harming of civilians.

3. You must actually attack, otherwise all that posturing was for nothing and you\'re being a very silly captain.



Of course, there\'s Unofficial Battles, which operate under the standard rules of engagement, which is \"if someone attacks me, I open fire back on them, which may or may not result in war as a result depending on whether the possible gains of completely murdering all of them outweighs the risk of being in a war\".

And then there\'s griefing, which is completely unprovoked attacks for no reason without any course for retaliation that also cause the victim to be weakened to the point which they cannot even hope to compete. This can be classified as an Unofficial Battle if the victim has a 80s Montage which lets them rise to the top and defeat the assailant.

This set of rules for war lets you look into my mind and see how I operate in spaaace.

 

[Zemer]

While Open Warfare is easy to pick out and is state forward, PvP being an example, other behaviors like griefing are debatable and rely on surcumstances. What some may call griefing I could look at as wartime sabotage and a potential battlefield tactic.

I like face to face combat but some individuals might prefer being sneaky and smart by tampering with the enemies ship before battle by maybe crippling a ships power supply. I also believe sabotage while the target is online would be prefered and doing the same act while the target is offline, might be grounds for griefing.

We use sabotage in modern times to put matters into our favor. someone doing something like maybe disabling a ship power generation could be seen as a tactic and anyone who can do such a thing to one of my ships without me noticing any diference is worthy of a \"Good Game\" from me, even if some people would call it cheating or griefing. Also the greatest defence against sabotage could be your own ship, meaning people with their own ship designs aren\'t as easy prey as someone who uses a popular ship design that someone could have studied for weaknesses and nows the localions of all the major ship systems. A new original ship design will be alien and we could see some saboteurs only target well known ship designs as their target systems are better known.

But I feel the server admins should discuss what tactics are exceptable and what the diference is between griefing and sabotage. And while sabotage maybe frowned apon it could still have a place in some maybe more tactical servers where more than just face to face techniques are welcome.

Wow that was rather much to write about and still isn\'t all my ideas, sorry for this

 

[z1967]

As I am a fairly nice guy (most of the time) I really don\'t PvP much. But I still came up with some basic classifications to the type of warfare or other type of PvP there might be.

Duel: Fairly straightforward, two ships or equal strength are pitted against each other in a gentlemanly matter, usually between two people, can occasionally involve a faction or fleet duel if nessecary. this is my favorite as the bloodbath is limited, fight is controlled, and is a great occasion for combat testing.

Faction combat: ranging from a random crossing of two rivals paths to a head to head fleet battle, there is much to be said about this. Generally close to a duel is some respects, many faction battles are organized and planned ahead of time. Faction battles involving more than three ships per faction are few and far between, but epic to watch.

Raids: Generally just taking a modified freighter with some guns and salvage lasers to go and hunt down and destroy an enemy faction\'s resources and ships. Has some very server specific rules, generally done whilst an opponent is offline but makes it a bit more fun when they are online and try to fight back.

Greifing: senseless or purposeless destruction of ships or resources. This can range from destroying a ship because it exists and not salvaging it, or base hopping for a ship to be left out. This activity usually ruins gameplay and is often outlawed on servers.

Trolling: seperate from griefing because it is often much more severe and is definitely outlawed on almost every server. Fairly obvious ones are: spawn camping, base surrounding, excessive ai ships, and the all famous ship-to-planet intercourse (basically ramming a large ship into a planet at high speeds).

These are just the ones that came of the top of my head. I can add more later.

 

[Stakhanov]

If you put yourself into a situation where someone can cause you grief , you most likely only have yourself to blame. There are rules and mechanics in place to prevent interference beyond your control ; the only troublesome behavior is bug exploiting , and that can usually be solved by admins easily. Of course , with Starmade being an alpha game , the list of exploitable bugs and broken features is extensive , so a smooth experience cannot be taken for granted. But you should try to find a community that respects certain gentlemen\'s agreements first , rather than complain that someone killed you in a cheap manner after the fact.

 

[EpicFailLord123]

where did I say I was greifed? I made this because my friend asked me to. But its not just my opinions that are valid, read the thread, there are several people who put forth their useful opinions, not typed up a quick verbal spanking because they didn\'t agree with me.

Everyone exept you put forth thier personal rules of engagement, which was the purpose of the thread.

 

[robertkor]

greifing would be finding a afk or offline player, building a cargo crate around that player and making that cargo crate the base of operations for your faction >:D

 

[EpicFailLord123]

LOL

 

[FlyingDebris]

You got kicked from two different factions for griefing...

 

[refirendum]

if the act is motivated by the fact that your faction has declared war on the targeted faction or they\'ve declared war on you, then it\'s not grief. if it\'s for the sole purpose of ruining others\' work, then it\'s griefing.
ex:

Grief:
someone finds your ship parked by your station but not docked to it and decides he\'s going to destroy your station and then kill your ship\'s faction module so that they can write something on it with blocks and then leave it for you to see next time you log in.


Not grief:
someone finds your ship parked by your station but not docked to it and decides he\'s going to destroy your station and then kill your ships and harvest the remains for maintaining the stength of their pirating faction (declared war on everyone).



Not grief:
someone finds your ship parked by your station but not docked to it and decides he\'s going to destroy your station and then kill your ships because they turn up as red/enemies on his radar

just my thoughts about it.

 

[Bazoril]

\"greifing would be finding a afk or offline player, building a cargo crate around that player and making that cargo crate the base of operations for your faction >:D\"



This is griefing, most of this you guys are crying about is not. Star made is a inspirational merge of the traditional space exploration openworld games like x3 and such and infiniminer inspired games. Both of these types of gameplay in question are not griefing (yes there are some examples of true griefing so don\'t get silly and try to pick a fight) rather than trying to ruin one sides gaming experience and villify them find a middle road guys.



It\'s simple, make these things dealt with ingame via derelict timers. In-game cloaking (server admins could choose to protect offline players or have the option of the ship being nearly undescoverable via cloaking if activated. Derelict timers would only serve to help keep a server clean of inactive ships anyway) as well as control how worthwhile it is to salvage ships.



Well that\'s just an example but the point is that it\'s fairly unacceptable in my opinion to judge another\'s playstyle like is being done here. And for the record i prefer faction based systems! The game is still in development, evolve as a community instead of struggling against eachother.