The Catalogue System is Absolutely Broken and is Exploitable

[Visitor]

That may be actually interesting. All kinds of merchant outposts offering to ship you your ship (har har), but depending on where you buy it, the price may be somewhat different. I wouldn\'t want all components to differ in price between every station, though. For example, I think that absolute basics like regular grey hull, ship cores, thrusters and energy generators should always be in stock and restocked no matter how heavy the demand, and sold for the base, universal price (which doesn\'t mean that single-but-vital modules like cores have to be dirt cheap in general).

 

[a_500lb_midgit]

The blueprint system is fine as it is its just the credits and loot need to be leveled out and a fee and waiting period for building the ship I could see happeing it would keep some dickhead from just spawing in a ship at spawn and killing everyone trying to build the fee would be based on mass and the waiting period would be based on the parts availability like if the shop doesnt have grey hulls a .5 of a sec would be added for every grey hull it dosent have

 

[Marson]

Force the players to find (or even make) a shipyard area where they can acess the catalog. from there they would have to purchase a ship (with a large fee in proportion to the value of the ship) and wait for it to be \"constructed\". Maybe if that doesn\'t appease to everyone you could also have the players supply the shipyard with materials to build the ship. Just an idea.

 

[Arothron]

Everything is fine the way it is. Finding the amount of heavy hulls I need is always a pain in the ass. I\'m far too accustomed to parking ships after quickly needing to exit the game and finding them completely disassembled and deleted upon return. And faction modules are also a fortune, so it\'s hard enough to protect the vessels I build. I\'m VERY dependant on the catalog and I see no easy way to \"exploit\" it. if you take a \"resource box\" from the catalog and build it into something, it\'s basically the same as dissassembling and modifying any other kind of ship.



I can see the frustration around \"exploits\" but I want things to stay the way they are.



One thing I want to see though is resource plants that actively \"produce\" credits without having to completely erase everything in a sector so you can refine the resources and sell them to get your faction module or whatever it happens to be.

 

[Morrigi]

Solution for duplicating, BSG spamming, etc.



Make it so you need to have the necessary materials to build the ship in your inventory. Both problems solved, game becomes more challenging, everyone goes home happy.

 

[Rookery]

I have brought this dupe issue up before. I don\'t think it is very exploitable because it is very easy to find new shops and it is probably not worth it anyway to make a ship and do this.

 

[Planr]

Make it so you need to have the necessary materials to build the ship in your inventory. Both problems solved, game becomes more challenging, everyone goes home happy.


This wouldn\'t work because the ship could be built out of a larger variety of blocks than what your inventory can support.

 

[PleXD]

Edit: Never mind there is something in the suggestion forum along this line of thought that I had not seen.

I think an alternative solution and will work well with fluctuating prices would be if you buy a blueprint from the shop it will first see how many blocks are available at the shop (of the types required for the ship). If there are enough then you can buy the ship at resource cost (of that shop) + a fixed commision.

If there are not enough blocks for any extra blocks it will convert other available items from the shop into the block needed by your ship. If it needs to do this then you pay the resource cost + 10% + a fixed commision.

Benifits of this are if the shop has been drained of all resources then you can not buy a blueprint from that shop and would make it so that you can buy smaller-medium ships from shops but not monster ships. Unless that area is well stocked with items. (ie a busy market hub.)

 

[Moo]

The problem isnt this as it costs you money which is equivilent to the parts in real life you place an order they bring you what you pay for.

The real issue is the ease of making money atm as i find once you have a desent ship you can go up to a pirate station sit there while it never depleates your shields then you get 800k+ from it.

Preferably i want pirates to be harder and give you less money and also planets with resources on to have prehaps sentient life that protects it resources. So you can go about it in 2 manors kill them and loot the planet (would be hard due to thereor trade with them for the write to mine there planet. This way you the more you play the more money you have the more ship schematics you can buy.

I do like the idea of the shop asking you for more money than the parts though prehaps a 110% pricing for the parts that way it adds an insentive to gather the materials yourself



So in this case its not the cataog system thats exploteable is just REALLY EASY to get money atm

 

[Morrigi]

I think it would be best if you had to have the blocks necessary for the ship\'s construction in your inventory. The necessary materials would be listed in the catalog entry.

If you attempt to build the ship without the necessary materials, a warning will pop up with a \"Proceed? Y/N\" option. If you do proceed without the necessary materials, the ship will be constructed with what is available and will be missing random pieces in direct relation to the blocks that are unavailable.

 

[Visitor]

I am not fond of this idea, especially as \'random blocks\' could very well be something rather vital. Not to mention the fact that - as someone said already - having to have all necessary elements in inventory is a death of more complex and elaborate ships, as such may require far more than what you can store in one place.

 

[Archer6621]

Why such a long and boring discussion about catalog if the fix is so utterly simple?

Add a multiplier to server.cfg that allows you to adjust by how much a blueprint\'s total worth in blocks will be multiplied.

This will ensure that people preferably don\'t spawn ships for parts and it will also make it harder to \'just\' respawn your ship.

Problem solved.

 

[Mercur1c]

That would be a huge pain if someone was setting up a carrier, or a ship with a lot of turrets.

 

[Planr]

The problem is not that blueprints are too cheap, it\'s that most servers make money easy to get.

Quoting what I said previously in this thread:


Furthermore, the economy system on a server is relative to how credits are acquired in the first place. The g1real server disables pirate loot and high-value ruin/pirate station drops so that the economy is more stable and factory usage is emphasized. Players there have to actually earn their credits through hard salvaging work, not looting a pirate station for hundreds of l5 minerals. If they want to blow their hard-earned cash on resource blueprints, that is their right. Credits are harder to come by and therefore it is more difficult to buy alot of resource drop blueprints at one time.


Additionally, increasing the price would increase the entropy of the universe, though that\'s not too much of a problem in the broad scope of things. Blocks-worth of resources would go up in smoke to pay for something costing more than its blocks are actually worth.

 

[Archer6621]

So what, add seperate buy/sell prices, problem number two solved without writing a 2 page story.

Besides, you can already cut on loot from pirates, and you can edit the blockconfig to make treasure like (for example) cactus and glass worth less, though a buy/sell price would be much more convenient.

 

[Charlie_]

While I\'m more inclined to agree with you Planr, I think he really meant supply regarding shops.

Also, I don\'t.. at least not now, don\'t get any appeal out of \"struggling\" for ressources that would be in demand and lack of supplies, if need be. It\'d be really tiresome.

As for the hull example. In a logic world, you\'d find more red hulls in shops in those red-controlled sectors because what kind of retard shopkeeper would stock up purple/blue in quantity when the demand for red is sky-rocketing through the fabric of time and space?! Then again. This is starmade, and apparently shopkeeps do not restock. I think it\'d be really annoying to travel around, find a bit of red hull, then come back to work on a build. A limited supply is a pain in the ass and as it is now, it\'s actually left to players to decide if they want to deal with that pain in the ass (by not buying material-blueprints) or to ignore it.

I think that\'s the best way to resolve this. Faire et laisser faire. :/

 

[Fum]

I don\'t understand all this pushing towards increased costs.

Right now when you spawn items it shows you\'re supposed to be only able to spawn from blueprints when close to a shop. So why not simply make it that in order to spawn a blueprint item you need:
A) Be close to a shop.
B) The shop needs to have all the items needed available for sale.

Simple and easy solution. I agree it\'s silly how once you can get at least 1 of everything you can have as much of it as you want with enough money. Planets are for mining. You shouldn\'t be able to get everything easily

 

[thePVTandrew]

i think it is fine, my ship cost 52 million and it has 32 turret spots (1 turret cost over 1 million due to faction modual) and then it has a ship worth anothe 32 million docked on it, so all up its 116 million, and they all consist oof masswive amounts of blocks, all together i has 5,000 black hull , 40,000 grey hull, 1000 AMC

500 Salvage beams, 1200 thrusters, 30,000 sheilds, it cost me even more to build it becasue i had to mine the resorecs ans spend time travleing to hundreds of shops to buy what i needed, i think if i save it as a buleprint im happy to pay the 116 million and not wastye time finding an rebuilding my ship\'s my idea is you have to have one of every element u used even in chest, (the shops should have attached hangerbays wher you can watch your ship being made by robots or something) so u pay for the amount of blocks as well as constrution time and if the shop runs out of items to use, the would send a fleet out (size depending on the cost of your ship) to gather or buy the suplies needed to builld your ship (then you have to pay for the resorces they paid for, well thats my to bits ingore or tell me if im stupied

 

[Tomino_sama]

@Planr

\"The claim that one can \"endlessly spawn materials\" is bogus because they cannot endlesslyspawn them (sellback exploits excluded). They will run out of money.\"



In future whent he game is more balanced and server admins reduce the Loot Drop Percentages in server.cfg I agree. However currently it causes a lot of lag when some 90,000+ blocks creation is purchased at 2,2,2 :/

At presents you can earn hundreds of Billions within hours from Pirate Drops. Like I said I know this is for feedback and of course Admins could change it right now, but still the cost being double would offer balance to players who grind everything \"legit\" and offers some worth to the Factory system. After all if you can just spawn it in why bother manufacturing?

Double the price seems fair to me as I don\'t want it removed from the game. Also you can look at the extra money as balancing those who travel long distances to trade / manufacture in Factories.



Also if you Double the Price then it is not that big a deal on a sub 1 Million Ship. However once you got past 50 Million Credits cost, the blueprint would cost 100 Million, etc. It could offer a way to balance Server Crashing Creations.



As the Blueprints store Height, Width, Length it is concievable there could be a server rule implemented to limit the Volume of a Blueprint purchase on a given Server. Then the Admin can define a top limit and resource harvesting could be mitigated, without removing it from the game as a whole. Let the Server Admin have control over that stuff as he knows what his hardware can handle :D

 

[Tomino_sama]

I liked the Shipyard Idea.



That adds some Depth to the process but it is useful being able to spawn in small ships quickly when you get stuck in deep space :D so maybe the Shipyard could be for Ships over a certain size/volume



@thePVTandrew - I\'d like to see your ship bro sounds cool