Tank VS Mech

    what do you think? 1 mech 2 tank


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    Groovrider

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    One of the things I always enjoyed about the Robotech series. Mech weren't possible without the bio-field provided by the protoculture energy source and that they made giant mecha to actually fight giants aliens.
     
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    I just want to point out that the RPGs killing tanks are typically being fired either at APCs, not tanks, or at T55s (like in the above video) or some such very early tank. T55s have simple iron armor that is pretty much butter to a shaped charge like a simple RPG. Modern APCs are actually much harder to destroy with such an RPG than early tanks, as they use spaced armor, ceramic layers, etc., specifically to make them harder to penetrate with an RPG.

    A modern tank is a completely different story. Such an RPG fired at say, an Abrams, would 99% of the time do absolutely zero damage other than making a tiny surface hole and mussing the paint. The larger wire guided missile in the third video above would have no problems taking out modern APCs, but even it could have problems versus an Abrams (or equivalent modern tank). To take out the Abrams, it would need a lucky shot, or be able to hit it in the side or rear.

    To make matters even harder for the missile crews, nowadays a few tanks (in the Israeli army for example) are starting to be equipped with active missile countermeasures. Those countermeasures will make tanks 'extremely' hard for single missiles to take out. And unlike the third video above where they shot off several missiles then took their leisurely time to pack up and leave, versus a modern trained army experienced with tank and missile warfare, they would not get off a second shot. They would be engaged with tank fire within seconds of them firing the first missile, very abruptly ending that video. The Israelis learned that trick in 1968.

    Mechs would be more agile than tanks, able to take cover more easily. However they would sport 'very' light armor (relatively speaking), likely lighter even than an APC. Very likely armor piercing 50 caliber bullets could defeat their armor. Moreover, despite their ability to lean around corners, they would none the less be 'big' targets. It is perfectly feasible for infantry to carry 50 caliber sniper rifles, and hitting those big targets will be easy even for the untrained. I am 100% convinced that mechs will remain solely within gaming, anime, and movies, and will never be part of an actual military.

    Powered armor infantry on the other hand is a very different story. Exoskeleton enhanced armored suits could in theory allow a soldier to wear much better armor and carry heavier weaponry. They will be vastly harder for an ill trained and ill equipped insurgent to deal with. Even modern militaries will find themselves desperately wanting similar powered armor so as to be able to counter their opponents powered armor on an equal footing, else they will find themselves on a very loosing end of the attrition equation.

    The design of those powered suits will likely be quite different than how they are typically envisaged by most. Most people see them as being big hulky clumsy systems using motors and gears. Such a suit would never be willingly used by an experienced soldier. The powered armor that will be used will not be larger than say a NASA space suit, and very likely will be even less bulky than that. It will probably have soft armor, not rigid, so as to permit maximum flexibility and coverage. It will be almost as dexterous as an unarmored soldier and not much larger.
    The first part is very true. The RPG-7 is a light anti-tank weapon that can be assigned to a rifle squad. However a lot of munitions used by the rpg-7 are knocks offs or downgrades while Russia continues to produce more modern and more upgraded versions of the warheads used by the rpg-7. A lot of light anti tank weapons from the era such as the rpg-2/7 and M72 LAW are pretty good at killing or disabling light skinned vehicles and dated tanks like the T-55 and M48 from that era.

    However things like recoiless rifles and heavy guided missile can't be carried by a standard rifle team. Those are usually given to a specialized team who just camps out some area. However since the cold war both NATO and Warsaw pact have looked for ways to keep their tanks alive longer. The USSR made a system called drozd which was mounted onto T-55s and would scan for incoming rockets. If a rocket was detected the system would fire shrapnel toward the incoming projectile to destroy it. The system was later replaced with explosive reactive armor and composite armor that could be layered on to the turret of the tank like the Dolly Parton armor used on the T-55AM. Russia today uses a modern incarnation of the Drozd system with a IR beam emitter to confuse missiles as well as reactive armor. NATO on the other hand decided to use a mix of steel and ceramic composite called chobham which weakens HEAT type projectiles. The US also took a step further and added DU inserts in the front of the hull for the M1A1HA and future models like the M1A2. Many nato countries are now also starting to add explosive reactive armor to AFVs of their own as well as composite plates like the M1 TUSK and SEP. So tanks have a lot going on for them as far as protection is concerned.

    However another important development from WW2 and the cold war was the idea of combined arms warfare where everything works together rather than independently. AFVs can work in a urban scenario as long as they have infantry cover and protect them and the infantry have the vehicle provide fire support when needed. The Syrians don't seem to have the concept down and just send tanks and ifvs off into the city.

    Large Caliber weapons: weapons In .50 and 12.7mm are pretty common. However just imagine what damage can be done to a mech with a 20mm rifle or autocannon.
     

    Winterhome

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    Do not mention that thing.

    It scares me.

    :p

    (Those who played Wargame series or done some reaearcg would understand....)

    It's also the weapon that penetrated a Challenger 2 in Iraq back in 2003.
     
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    It's also the weapon that penetrated a Challenger 2 in Iraq back in 2003.
    Yep.

    An AT weapon so powerful the US EXPLICITLY banned Iraq from acquiring...

    It can even penetrate T-80 and T-90 with ERA on... ( I think I seen some images of it being tested against then)
     

    Winterhome

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    I'd hate to see what one could do to the hip joint of a mech.
     
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    Do not mention that thing.

    It scares me.

    :p

    (Those who played Wargame series or done some reaearcg would understand....)
    Hello privyet otan, would you like to talk about our savior comrade T-80U?
     
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    I think we've generally concluded a tank is superior to a giant mech. But what about a tank vs. a single-person armed suit? To clarify, I'm talking about armored, powered exoskeletons only slightly larger than a human. Ghost in the Shell has some good examples. Although these suits would definitely not have the same protection as a tank, they could definitely pack tank-killing weapons and would be significantly tougher targets to hit.
     
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    I think we've generally concluded a tank is superior to a giant mech. But what about a tank vs. a single-person armed suit? To clarify, I'm talking about armored, powered exoskeletons only slightly larger than a human. Ghost in the Shell has some good examples. Although these suits would definitely not have the same protection as a tank, they could definitely pack tank-killing weapons and would be significantly tougher targets to hit.
    If it adds to the mobility of an infantryman without making them a massive target, it might work.

    Could you imagine the horrors of a single man lugging 4 Rpg-29? :p
     

    DrTarDIS

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    Makes me glad he's not selling them to JDF yet. ;)
     
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    Why the hell would a guy building robot suits name his system "Cyberdyne"? That's just inviting the robot apocalypse.
     

    Tunk

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    That power armour is pretty damn cool.
    lemme guess, pilotable as well as turretable? (I see that sneaky docker there).
    Looks like drop rack functionality as well!
     

    Dr. Whammy

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    That power armour is pretty damn cool.
    lemme guess, pilotable as well as turretable? (I see that sneaky docker there).
    Looks like drop rack functionality as well!
    Thanks Tunk,

    The ones in that picture are only turrets but you got me thinking. With a ship remote and a couple of wireless units I was able to make it pilotable. The weapons computer will need to be disconnected from the logic in order to be used as a turret again but everything needed is already on board so it can be reconfigured in the field in just a few seconds.

    Oh, and you are correct about the drop rack; it's meant to drop from this... Drop system.jpg
    The drop pylons are meant to make this a modular/multipurpose ship. Currently, each bay can carry a fighter, a torpedo bomber, a stealth reconnaissance bomber, a light dropship, 4 power-suits or one of my 25x torpedo launchers. Planned bay-mounted equipment include a logic-controlled salvager, habitat modules, power generators and an orbit cannon control system.
     
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    depends on the mech and the tanks. I see a feasible mech as being somewhere at a size at or smaller than a tank and allowing enhanced movement (jump, dash, jump jets, climb), increased strength and dexterity to not only lift and support its own weight but of heavy objects( like a tank). a hardsuit allowing a human being to run around almost effortlessly sporting infantry heavy weapon systems and capable of not only absorbing multiple small arms (and possibly a tank round) but the effects of momentum and getting knocked unconscious from getting thrown around and able to safely land falls many times its size with minimal damage. Think hawken movement mechanics, heavy gear shaped and lost planet sized with a sexy computer voice status notifier like in mechwarrior then i'd go with that mech against the tanks despite the mech would need to make multiple attacks to destroy one tank and would most likely take one round to kill the mech. Of course the mech would only exist if a technology arose that made it more logical to make a walking robot that emulated a person than a tank, maybe like synthetic nano muscle akin to BT myomer but easily and cheaply produced. A mech should be a suit of armor that extends the ability of the person inside it while being just at the right size to mount systems to overencumbering for infantry but small enough to utilize most of the areas infantry or conventional vehicles could.