Structured PvP elements.

[Criss]

This topic is all about bringing in formal elements to the PvP side of things. We have seen a little bit of this put in the game so far and I want to explain my take on it. This would be very separate from the current systems already in game.

The current meta in StarMade is to build, acquire resources, claim territory, war with factions or fight pirates and more building. These things are all optional. Players can choose which elements of this they wish to get involved in. A player can spend all of their time mining and none of it fighting enemies. This is the nature of a sandbox. They get to choose. It is what StarMade aspires to be, a true sandbox. But even the best sandbox games have some structure, be it in one form or another. It depends on where the line is drawn on the definition of a sandbox.

The devs have already expressed interest in PvE missions. Now, we all know we won't have to

Here come the examples. I'll be talking about the biggest PvP aspects of GTA V, EVE Online and World of Warcraft.

• WoW - World PvP - Players can actively kill enemy players when they encounter them. They can happen across these enemies while playing or organize an event to target them directly.
• WoW - Formal PvP Matchmaking - Players enter a queue to fight random opponents on an enemy team. In WoW there are multiple forms. Arenas, battlegrounds, and duels. This allows players on the same team to fight each other for sport instead of competing for a real goal.
• EVE Online - Factional Warfare - Players enlist with pre-determine factions and fight on their behalf for rewards. Players will fight against NPC's and players alike.
• EVE Online - War Declarations - Player made alliances/corporations fight each other for whatever reason they desire with no consequence from the in-game police force. It can be triggered for the acquisition of assets and resources or simply because it is fun. The players decide why to fight.
• EVE Online - Open World PvP - Players can kill anyone, even their own allies, at will and at any time. If it is unprovoked and they are in a policed area, they will be killed by those police. This leads to the very dangerous low-sec/null-sec areas thriving with unprovoked PvP.
• GTA V - Open World PvP - Players can free roam with other players and kill and be killed by those players at any time. Even friends may kill each other. If it is desired, a player can opt out of all PvP interaction while staying in the free roam with PvP enabled players.
• GTA V - PvP Game Modes - Players can enter a queue and enter game modes like deathmatch, adversary modes, and various races. This is all formal and tracks things like who did best during matches. It does not carry over into the free roam gameplay.

As we can see, these are three types of games that all bring in SOME elements of a sandbox world to a certain degree. EVE would likely be the best example of a sandbox, WoW would be the worst. We can also see that even in these sandbox games, there is some form of structure applied for players that want a more formal experience. It's an optional experience, but it is there nonetheless

Now lets take a look at what StarMade has to offer. Right now we can enter PvP at almost any time, be it on foot or in a ship. This is the equivalent of an informal form of PvP. It can be unprovoked, or it could be for the legitimate needs of a player or faction. If the aim is to have a quantified and tracked deathmatch, StarMade cannot really satisfy it.

The best thing we have to formal PvP is the battlemode. I believe it is activated via server setting. I have little experience with this, and currently is has little exposure. Players can opt into a battle with two teams. They are teleported with their selected ship BP and fight it out in a locked sector. They are prompted to join during a timed period. If I made any incorrect statements there, please correct me. Nonetheless, forcing the server to shut down to enable this feature only pushes me away from using it at all.

Here is what I propose:

• Introduce Formal PvP matches set up at locations of a players choosing.
• This entire system would be separate from faction points. This prevents this system from providing any benefit to anyone. It is strictly for entertainment / formal PvP gameplay.
• Only the station/structure owner would have complete control. They can grant access to others if desired. No ties to factions here.
• The PvP areas can be set up on planet plates, full planets or space stations. It can be determined when setting up these structures. Buying a station could prompt the player to choose whether they wanted this structure to be for the formal PvP system. Placing some new related blocks could prompt players on planets.
• A new Game Control block could be introduced for the owners that determine the conditions of the PvP match. This includes gamemode, timers, lives, number of teams, etc... The aim is to give the player tools to create what they want, not force them into very defined gameplay.
• Players that want to participate will interact with a block. It could be the same block as mentioned above. Of course only the owner would get access to the gamemodes options, everyone else would select their role. Either they pick some sort of team or they are an observer.
• A new Game Spawn block will be used to position players. The spawn blocks can be setup to spawn members of one of the playing teams or spawn observers. This way, players can be teleported to their spawn point on the map, and observers can be teleported out of the game area and into an observation area.
• It should be noted that these game areas / structures are invulnerable and the sector will lock during the game period.
• The gameplay area is determined by the owner. They can setup enclosed areas on the structure for the match to take place. They can place spawn blocks and set their options. They could build an arena station or they could have it setup so that an entire station is the playing field. It all depends on what the spawned players have access to. The structure is invulnerable, so there won't be easy ways to escape the confines of the desired play area if the owner designs it properly. This applies to planets as well.
• Anyone that enters these sectors will be protected. Anyone fighting will be able to harm each other once the game starts.
• Games can end after certain time limits or once players disconnect. This will teleport them back to a game respawn block set to "lobby" or perhaps the Game Control block. Reconnecting after a disconnect will remove you from the game.
• It should be entirely possible to get NPC's to spawn with this system. They despawn after the match ends. Now this system can extend into PvE matches such as survival gamemodes, or simply add additional obstacles for two enemy teams.
• Options such as respawning warheads could be implemented. Players can shoot the warheads and blow them up. The blocks replace themselves after set amounts of time. We've all seen stuff like this. The capabilities of the system depend on how far the devs would take it.
• When it comes to vehicles, specifically inside stations or on planets, it gets tricky. We would want this system to accommodate planet warfare with tanks and mechs. Getting it to spawn those objects properly is the issue. (That is my opinion. It could actually be very easy to do and I just don't know it)
• In terms of space battles, I think the system can still apply. A very large station can be set up with spawn points placed at the owners discretion. Visually the entire station does not have to be connected. It just requires the spawn blocks to have the room to spawn ships around them.
• When the match starts, the sector is locked.
• Ships would spawn near the spawn blocks of their team. Players could be placed into those ships. and fly out into the sector to battle. Fighter combat with this system sounds great here. Fighters that do not have players flying in them are invulnerable to prevent spam destruction.
• Players that are killed get their ships depawned, and new ones spawn near their starting location. A timer counts down and the player can spawn in again.
• Players should only be able to operate a set number of these stations/structures. Since it protects the sector, it could be spammable across space. Limiting it based on a server config value could fix that. Admins should be able to operate unlimited numbers of these stations/structures. They are the most capable for maintaining these games.

So that's what I've come up with. This is almost an afterthought to what was a larger discussion. When it dawned on me however, I thought it was pretty good. I think players would love it as well. Think about it. Right now Minecrafts biggest trend is minigames. Plenty of servers have them. There are massive lobbies where players enter all sorts of game modes. The downside is that it took years of time and tons of server mods to get there. I think it would be astounding to have this as a vanilla feature for StarMade.

Even if a vastly simpler system was implemented, I would still be satisfied. I enjoyed astronaut based combat when I played it. My friends tried setting up a deathmatch. In the end nobody knew who would have won. The fight wasn't for factions or territory or resources. It was for fun. But it didn't feel gratifying when it was over because we simply aimlessly shot each other for 20 minutes.

Tell me what you think. Personally I haven't seen anything like this suggested here. We know the devs have looked into it sort of with the whole battlemode thing. I think it's certainly viable and definitely worth it.

 

[BiGEdge]

You could use the "Game Control Block" in combination with the existing
Battlemode.
This mode was included but noone uses it, right?
To make it more usable, players could create theyr own battlemode Sector and close it up in a far away galaxy.
The one hoo placed the Block could use it when hes an admin of his Faction or something.
But all that has to be implemented into the game.
That would be great.

 

[Snk]

-1. Seems it would just take players away from the actual world.

 

[lilFishy]

Agreed. This game has so much potential beyodn siply being a MC in space. I mean, in which other game can you make a trully limmitles ship spectrum and dish out against other folks. However, i do hate the current resource gathering for not enabeling that.

 

[SeCor]

What if this "game control block" creates a separate isolated sector? This way you:

• automatically prevent anyone from interfering with the duel (unless they join through the GCB interface)
• prevent usage of GCB to "neutralize" systems
• allow for planet-based warfare, as if i remember correctly, they are static relative to their sector (it's the whole sector rotating, not the planet itself: this also accounts for the distances glitching when you leave/enter planet sector)

"Submersion damage" from this (the fact that you stop associating yourself with a character for the time it takes to queue for bg) can be circumvented by building a giant warpgate-like structure ("this gate leads to a place of neverending war").

The problem of players choosing the "virtual" space over the "real" one (kek) can be fixed by the fact that you still need money to make ship to fight in (if the mode you want to participate in allows you to enter in the ship of your design, if it fits the mass/dimensions/whatever limitations the GCB's creator may have paced). And if the players leave the "virtual" space - it's the social problem, so i believe the GMs should be in charge of that. Maybe on hardcore pvp servers such GCBs are all GM-owned and function like arena where players can show off their skill in exchange for money to use in "real" world? And of course it's possible to create a minigames server with a thousand of GCBs around the spawn point.

 

[Criss]

-1. Seems it would just take players away from the actual world.

Considering this is something you would queue up for, it's not a system that you could stay in constantly. I have to say I don't see the logic behind your stance on it. I can't build in this game mode. I can't expand my empire or gather resources. This is just a way for players to enter formal PvP for sport. It's mostly geared for players that want astronaut combat. It's harder to get it working with larger ship combat. Also, anyone that doesn't want to PvP wouldn't care about it either. Aside from my remark below, every aspect of it was to keep it located in regular sectors that a player could enter and leave at any time. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

What if this "game control block" creates a separate isolated sector? This way you:

Considering the tutorial station already does this, that sounds like a much better idea. The GM could setup which station/structure to load and it already sort of does this with the battlemode.

 

[Snk]

Considering this is something you would queue up for, it's not a system that you could stay in constantly. I have to say I don't see the logic behind your stance on it. I can't build in this game mode. I can't expand my empire or gather resources. This is just a way for players to enter formal PvP for sport. It's mostly geared for players that want astronaut combat. It's harder to get it working with larger ship combat. Also, anyone that doesn't want to PvP wouldn't care about it either. Aside from my remark below, every aspect of it was to keep it located in regular sectors that a player could enter and leave at any time. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

I mean, it takes away from the actual game world. You don't really contribute anything to the game in there, you just go pew pew pew with no point. Besides, I don't see why an admin couldn't set something like this up.

 

[Criss]

You don't really contribute anything to the game in there, you just go pew pew pew with no point. Besides, I don't see why an admin couldn't set something like this up.

Setting this up with an admin doesn't add anything to the game world either. But it does add to the value of the game. Minigames in MC wouldn't be popular if people didn't play them. I gave an example as to why setting up a game like this is pointless right now. I went into a deathmatch on the MF server and it lasted a while. It was fun. But we didn't know when it ended or who won the event. It was just aimless killing. The devs already had the intention of doing something like this with battlemode. Not sure why it is such a bad idea to actually give structure to something players will want to experience.

 

[SeCor]

I mean, it takes away from the actual game world. You don't really contribute anything to the game in there, you just go pew pew pew with no point. Besides, I don't see why an admin couldn't set something like this up.

I understand it as just an admin's tool. It's not like just anybody can get such block and place a few at his place -- it's exactly a way to organise in-game arenas of sorts. I mean, in the original proposition it can be placed by anybody; but a config can be changed to allow only gms to have such block. It benefits RP servers because it makes certain events easier for admins to organise; it allows for minigame-servers and it can be unobtainable on openpvp servers.

 

[Comr4de]

Minigames in MC wouldn't be popular if people didn't play them.

But more often than not those minigames are relegated to their own server, not tacked onto other survival servers. I see where you're coming from but having a queued PvP doesn't seem like it would fit in a survival server. I feel that these are suggestions more suited for fleshing out the battlemode system.

 

[BDLS]

I personally wouldn't play on a server with those non-standard modes (MUST GRIFF), but later down the line having the option to host servers with these modes might be cool for those who do.

 

[Snk]

But more often than not those minigames are relegated to their own server, not tacked onto other survival servers. I see where you're coming from but having a queued PvP doesn't seem like it would fit in a survival server. I feel that these are suggestions more suited for fleshing out the battlemode system.

I agree with you.

 

[Criss]

queued PvP

Less of a queue, more of a place to formally fight. They could only be accessed from the sector they take place in, meaning any time spent out of these sectors is directly impacting the survival end of gameplay.