Structural Integrity and Vulnerable Systems

    Joined
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages
    60
    Reaction score
    0
    Alright so the idea of having an overall "hull health" for your ship separate from the shields isn't a new idea. What inspired this suggestion is the post by MYbattlecruiserisawesom, so credit for that is due.

    So it makes sense for several reasons, and it can be implemented in a way that makes the game more fun. There's a problem right now with hardened hull costing a whole lot but being entirely cosmetic. Most weapons will one-shot hardened hull like any other block, and it's extremely expensive compared to the price of other blocks. You can't outright buff hardened hull's stats or fights between small ships will last forever, and that's the same reason you can't nerf AMCs too hard without making a fight between two Isanths last a year.

    So here's a proposal that will work to the game's benefit. Hull contributes a second healthbar to the ship, and it'll take over the function of the player's healthbar while in the ship as seeing your character's health while in a shipcore is an entirely useless function.

    Hull blocks would contribute 25 health, and hardened hull blocks would contribute 35 health each. All other blocks contribute 1 health to the ship. Hull health would scale much better than shields, and ships would have a considerable gain in overall endurance from replacing all of their shields with hull. However, hull would be extremely vulnerabe missiles whereas shields are nearly immune.

    After a ship's health is gone, blocks are destroyed as normal.

    Every time a system block is hit, all blocks of the same type connected to that group are disabled for 5 seconds, with diminishing returns. For example: hitting a power line in a ship will prevent that line from regenerating power for 5 seconds, then 2.5, then 1.25, and then there would be a 3 second window where it couldn't be disabled again. Shield groups that are struck prevent shield regeneration, AMC and missile groups are prevented from firing, and engines get disabled.

    This way, choosing whether or not to group things becomes an important decision in contruction. Yes, putting all of your engines in one giant group will make the fastest engine, but it's also the most vulnerable engine. You could break them up to make it less likely that you'll be in big trouble if they're shot, or you can choose to just take the risk for a bit of a speed boost.

    It would create dynamic PVP scenarios where players will have options besides just shooting at their opponent's core the entire time. They can purposely target their engines to leave them dead in the water and vulnerable to missile attack. Fighters might be tasked with locking down components on an enemy ship while another capital takes them down. It'd simply make things better and more interesting.

    I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on this.
     
    Joined
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages
    2,932
    Reaction score
    460
    • Hardware Store
    I like the idea, and it is well thought, but using hull as a second \'shield\' isn\'t that great. I\'d suggest, that hardened hull blocks gain 0.1 hp for each other hardened hull block attatched to it(wedges count as half, corners as quarter hardened hull). It would buff hardened hull on big ships, while small fighters don\'t gain much from the buff. Using this system, it would also open up the strategy of cutting ships into pieces to weaken the core protecting hull, instead of coredrilling through almost indestructible hull. Ships could also have some weakpoints, on which fire can be focussed.
     
    Joined
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages
    20
    Reaction score
    2
    Megacrafter if I understand you right you\'re saying that the hull itself would gain health. eg, not having a \"second sheild\" of hull

    It seems a little wied to me that having a 1 thick layer of hull should benifit from having a lot of hull somewhere else. how about the hull is buffed based on how much hull is behind it at the angle of incidence (and to prevent indestructiblity have the buff follow a dimminising returns curve) so in order to have strong hull it needs to be thick, not just having a large ship. (This is someone else idea however I can no longer find the thread that it was orginialy posted to, sorry)

    On the idea of disabling systems it seems good except that as it is sheilds going down is a death sentance, you can\'t run away because the person shooting at you is just as fast (the difference is in acceleration but there is not enough to actuly run away in most cases) and why would you worry about shooting anything else when the sheilds are no longer worth anything, power generators are increadably redundant to get decent power.

    Looking elsewhere (navel history/star wars/star trek) as to why there isn\'t coredrilling I see to major differences in five places

    1 There are critical systems that would majory affect the ability of the ship in combat that could be destroyed (this thread trys to adress this but there are the befor mentioned problems)

    2 often times simply doing any damage would be enough to eleminate the ship from combat (how many torpedos does it really take to sink a battleship? most cases 3-5) and then there is still a ship but now if left alone it will sink/drift/crash

    3 just hitting the other ship was the impressive (pinpoint accuracy of AMCs vs trying to hit a dot 17 miles away with a 2000 pound shell)

    4 debris would pile up in the way really slowing progression to the core/reactor/bridge or requiring a really big gun

    5 Ships didn\'t go around with a sign that said \"shoot here to kill me\". With a little bit of thinking ship commanders could figure out where important things where likely to be but there wasn\'t a becon that could easly be targeted to kill the ship

    my two cents, do with it what you will
     
    Joined
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages
    16
    Reaction score
    0
    On \"Blockade Runner\" they\'re preparing cool damage system and improved physics: there is video demostrating tech. point of view. Maybe go simmilar way?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoKNkAoLExA
     
    Joined
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages
    2,811
    Reaction score
    960
    • Councillor 3 Gold
    • Wired for Logic
    • Top Forum Contributor
    It\'s basically a redundant shield mechanic that uses hull as generators instead of shield disperses...

    There are few suggestions that add \"structural integrity\" but many don\'t like the idea of a second shield mechanic. Regardless of how you spin/name it, if there is a number value that you have to chew through before dealing damage to a ship then it is just a shield.
     
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages
    60
    Reaction score
    0
    Is a profoundly stupid argument against its implementation. Adding a second, non-rechargable healthbar that would make hardened hull actually relevant would not yield the same results as doubling shield capacity.
     
    Joined
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages
    21
    Reaction score
    0
    Sounds great to me, especially if structural integrity has to be repaired with the technobeam rather than regenerating.
     
    Joined
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages
    239
    Reaction score
    2
    You could break them up to make it less likely that you\'ll be in big
    trouble if they\'re shot


    This system makes ships less powerful than they are now. By dividing shields, thrusters, etc, you aren\'t getting the same bonus you would if you grouped them together. Great, it makes people think about their ship layouts. It encourages people to not build deathcubes. However, due to the nature of that shipbuilding, battles will last longer.


    Adding a second, non-rechargable healthbar that would make hardened
    hull actually relevant would not yield the same results as doubling
    shield capacity.


    Welllllllll sorta. If a ship loses most of its health from battle, the ship becomes cannon fodder in the next battle. Thus, the need for Techno Beams to heal the ship (if health will be healed). When the ship\'s health gets low in battle, repair ships (surely people will make huge heal ships) will be used, prolonging the already long fight. Shields might regen, making the fight even longer. It starts a \"kill the smaller ones\" theme in combat, which is just plain annoying.


    It seems a little wied to me that having a 1 thick layer of hull should benifit from having a lot of hull somewhere else. how about the hull is buffed based on how much hull is behind it at the angle of incidence (and to prevent indestructiblity have the buff follow a dimminising returns curve) so in order to have strong hull it needs to be thick, not just having a large ship.


    ^This.


    It would create dynamic PVP scenarios where players will have options besides just shooting at their opponent\'s core the entire time.


    Not really. The quickest way to kill a ship is to get the core. Who (in a true PVP scenario) would want to waste time blowing up different parts of the ship when they can just aim for the core? Besides, aiming for the core generally means you hit different systems.

    Not to be mean, but that\'s how I think it will affect PVP. Thoughts?