Starmade, meet Tesla.

    Valiant70

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    Some players consider starmade's infinite energy from "nowhere" unrealistic. However, it's possible that such energy could be generated from ambient cosmic rays. Mix Nicola Tesla's inventions with some sci-fi tech and materials and you've got some serious power!

    While many players would like to see fuel added to the game in some way, either as a necessity or a buff for power generation, it is not really needed for realism. On the other hand, one might argue that the devices we use require so much power that the arrays currently in-game could not possibly produce enough. The point is that fuel or lack thereof can be left up to gameplay concerns alone and need not be too concerned with realism.
     

    Valiant70

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    There are a lot of players who want fuel, perhaps renewable fuel from starlight. An additional gamemode with emphasized survival aspects like fuel, oxygen, food, water, and medicines seems likely in the future. The thing is, we don't need to freak out one way or another as long as the game remains fun.
     
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    Also, regarding fuel, I might make a mod adding it in the near future, for those who can't wait, and to end the endless chain of fuel requests(I'm pretty sure schema has heard about them) ;)
     
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    Oh yeah that's why Tesla was killed by the GUB, cause he wanted to give the world good clean limitless energy, and the oil barons didn't like that and....

    *Is dragged kicking and screaming into an ambulance*

    NOO! LEARN THE TRUTH! ....Don't take me to an elevator! Not the elevator! You can't take the truth awaaaayyy!!!

    ...Ahem, yeah. I think fuel and survival stuff is the next chairs, in that thousands of people want it and will talk about it but it isn't really what we need RIGHT NOW, but we WILL need it in the future.
     
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    While many players would like to see fuel added to the game in some way, either as a necessity or a buff for power generation, it is not really needed for realism.
    While it may or may not be needed for realism; fuel is definitely needed for game balance - it's the only disadvantage for huge ships that makes sense.

    There's also other advantages; like making the economy more interesting, creating a whole new class of special purpose ships (fuel miner, fuel tanker), adding more of a stategic element to the upcoming universe update (fuel sources would be a critical resource).

    Finally, it would also work very well with solar panels; where ship designers end up having to choose between using fuel for power (and ending up with running costs), or using solar power (and not having running costs, but having an exposed critical system), or having some mixture of both; which adds more variety and skill to the game.
     
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    While it may or may not be needed for realism; fuel is definitely needed for game balance - it's the only disadvantage for huge ships that makes sense.
    It is the first disadvantage coming to mind, but not the only one that makes sense.
    The high mass itself is the disadvantage:
    1. The ship is very expensive, sometimes up to the point where they are too expensive to be efficient.
    2. Inertia. While it is true, that bigger ships have more space for thrusters to cancel that out, these thrusters need power, which doesn't scale linear, effectively forcing big&fast ships to allocate more space to power, resulting in them having weaker other stats.
    3. They are a bigger target and thus more likely to get hit by shots.
    There's also other advantages; like making the economy more interesting, creating a whole new class of special purpose ships (fuel miner, fuel tanker), adding more of a stategic element to the upcoming universe update (fuel sources would be a critical resource).

    Finally, it would also work very well with solar panels; where ship designers end up having to choose between using fuel for power (and ending up with running costs), or using solar power (and not having running costs, but having an exposed critical system), or having some mixture of both; which adds more variety and skill to the game.
    Agreed
     
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    Personally I feel fuel isn't something that's really needed at this stage of the game, also because the motion 'to add fuel' sounds much simpler then what would be implied in my opinion.

    When you add a fuel component it will probably more like you add different engine types with different fuels that belong to those. Different propulsion systems could certainly be a balancing factor for ship sizes, but would also heighten the complexity of ship design and the game overall. Not to mention all added peripherals like were and how does one get the resources, are refining or other processes needed, how abundant will those resources be in the universe, how much is needed for propulsion of the different types of engine and last but not least how are the different fuels stored and distributed to their corresponding engines.

    With the above in mind I feel there are lots of other things that should be implemented in the game first before thinking of adding something like fuels, what obviously needs a lot of thought to be honest. ;)

    Greets,

    Jan
     
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    My main problem with fuel is "what happens when you run out?" Does it explode? Or leave you stranded in space? both are no fun (to e anyways, apparently some people like starting from scratch for no reason.) because it just interferes with fun (IMO).
     
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    Personally I feel fuel isn't something that's really needed at this stage of the game, also because the motion 'to add fuel' sounds much simpler then what would be implied in my opinion.
    At no stage. Fuel is a grinding component, and grinding sucks.
     
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    At no stage. Fuel is a grinding component, and grinding sucks.
    Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if fuel was never added. I only wanted to point out for those who quickly say "hey, let's have fuel" that adding something like that isn't that simple without much deliberation. ;)

    Greets,

    Jan
     

    ResonKinetic

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    I want fuel to be harvested from planets and regenerate itself slowly over time so planets will be more valuable.
     
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    It is the first disadvantage coming to mind, but not the only one that makes sense.
    The high mass itself is the disadvantage:
    1. The ship is very expensive, sometimes up to the point where they are too expensive to be efficient.
    2. Inertia. While it is true, that bigger ships have more space for thrusters to cancel that out, these thrusters need power, which doesn't scale linear, effectively forcing big&fast ships to allocate more space to power, resulting in them having weaker other stats.
    3. They are a bigger target and thus more likely to get hit by shots.
    If someone has a huge titan; then they just use it for everything. There's no incentive (after the initial purchase) to use anything else for anything else. The end result is that (for multi-player at least) you end up with an "arms race" where each faction strives to acquire the largest ships, and nobody has a reason to use smaller special purpose ships. This is where fuel is needed - e.g. if someone is just running to the shop to get a few docking modules, I want them to choose a smaller scout ship (with cheaper running costs) instead of taking their massive behemoth. More importantly; I want factions to leave their capital ships at strategic locations (and only use them during war) and use small ships for most things (mining, exploring, cargo transport, etc).

    For large ships, power scales linearly. The formula is "power regen = number of internally docked power cells * 1 million". ;)

    They are a bigger target; but they also have more shields. For example, I've been watching the "drone research" thread and seeing figures like "300 K damage every 15 seconds" and doing the maths ("300 K in 15 seconds = 20 K DPS", therefore shield regen under fire needs to be 20 K or higher, therefore shield regen when not under fire needs to be 200 K shields/sec or higher) and realising that these drones won't be able to get my shields down, even if I don't fight back at all and just let them attack my ship for several days.

    My main problem with fuel is "what happens when you run out?" Does it explode? Or leave you stranded in space? both are no fun (to e anyways, apparently some people like starting from scratch for no reason.) because it just interferes with fun (IMO).
    If you run out of fuel (and don't have any solar power or anything that you can use to "limp") then you're stranded in space, and would need to either ask a faction member or other players to come and rescue you, or suicide and come back in a fuel tanker yourself. This makes game play more interesting.

    At no stage. Fuel is a grinding component, and grinding sucks.
    Grinding would be optional; as (I'd assume) every shop would sell fuel (and it wouldn't be "annoyingly over-priced"). Also; if you want a boring game that small children can play in their sleep, then it'd be possible to add a "fuel consumption scaling factor" in the server config (that can be set to zero to disable fuel consumption).

    I want fuel to be harvested from planets and regenerate itself slowly over time so planets will be more valuable.
    Ideally; I'd want several options. The first option would be just buying it from trading guild shops. The second option would be "fuel scoops" that harvest gases from stars. The third option would be "hard fuels" (e.g. uranium) that are harvested from planets and asteroids.

    When you add a fuel component it will probably more like you add different engine types with different fuels that belong to those. Different propulsion systems could certainly be a balancing factor for ship sizes, but would also heighten the complexity of ship design and the game overall. Not to mention all added peripherals like were and how does one get the resources, are refining or other processes needed, how abundant will those resources be in the universe, how much is needed for propulsion of the different types of engine and last but not least how are the different fuels stored and distributed to their corresponding engines.
    I've been imagining 2 different thruster types - a "rocket thruster" that uses fuel directly and is harder to control (e.g. maybe only 100% thrust or 0% thrust with nothing in between); and a "hyper-coil thruster" that uses power that is much easier to control. I've also been imagining solar power, which can only be used for the hyper-coil thrusters.

    Mostly; initially "basic fuel" could be added (fuel tank blocks, fuel consumed by the existing power generators, and cheap fuel purchased from shops); and once this is done it opens up a large number of possibilities (e.g. ship to ship fuel transfer, different fuel sources, different thruster types, solar power) that can be added to the game later.
     
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    If someone has a huge titan; then they just use it for everything. There's no incentive (after the initial purchase) to use anything else for anything else. The end result is that (for multi-player at least) you end up with an "arms race" where each faction strives to acquire the largest ships, and nobody has a reason to use smaller special purpose ships. This is where fuel is needed - e.g. if someone is just running to the shop to get a few docking modules, I want them to choose a smaller scout ship (with cheaper running costs) instead of taking their massive behemoth. More importantly; I want factions to leave their capital ships at strategic locations (and only use them during war) and use small ships for most things (mining, exploring, cargo transport, etc).


    For large ships, power scales linearly. The formula is "power regen = number of internally docked power cells * 1 million". ;)

    They are a bigger target; but they also have more shields. For example, I've been watching the "drone research" thread and seeing figures like "300 K damage every 15 seconds" and doing the maths ("300 K in 15 seconds = 20 K DPS", therefore shield regen under fire needs to be 20 K or higher, therefore shield regen when not under fire needs to be 200 K shields/sec or higher) and realising that these drones won't be able to get my shields down, even if I don't fight back at all and just let them attack my ship for several days.
    There is an incentive. The lower turning speed is annoying and makes some things take extreme times to perform.

    AFAIK the docked-generator exploit will be nerfed or maybe even fixed.

    Solution: use more drones. :p
    If you run out of fuel (and don't have any solar power or anything that you can use to "limp") then you're stranded in space, and would need to either ask a faction member or other players to come and rescue you, or suicide and come back in a fuel tanker yourself. This makes game play more interesting.




    Grinding would be optional; as (I'd assume) every shop would sell fuel (and it wouldn't be "annoyingly over-priced"). Also; if you want a boring game that small children can play in their sleep, then it'd be possible to add a "fuel consumption scaling factor" in the server config (that can be set to zero to disable fuel consumption).
    Being stranded is annoying, and always keeping an eye on the fuel gauge is too.
    Also, what happens when due to a bug the same happens as on a popular server once?[can't remember the name, was either illusive or NASS] Apart from the shop at 0,0,0 no shops spawned, until someone found a huge wall of shops far out where nobody is going normally.
    The bug was fixed, but there is no telling if it happens again.
    Ideally; I'd want several options. The first option would be just buying it from trading guild shops. The second option would be "fuel scoops" that harvest gases from stars. The third option would be "hard fuels" (e.g. uranium) that are harvested from planets and asteroids.
    That would indeed be nice, provided one(even if not effective) source of absolutely free energy, that does not rely on any condition(like solar panels rely on sunlight), remains.
     
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    This is where fuel is needed - e.g. if someone is just running to the shop to get a few docking modules, I want them to choose a smaller scout ship (with cheaper running costs) instead of taking their massive behemoth.
    Wrong. Not only are there already mechanics in the game that encourage smaller ships over dreadnoughts, I can also think of several others that could and most likely will eventually be added.
    For instance, FTL favors small ships. Jump drives take hours to charge on larger vessels, gates are limited by their shape and also power consumption. A bit more below. If shops were spread thinner and with a larger stock, small to medium-sized freighters would become a viable alternative.
    Furthermore, trading could be restricted to ships that docked to the shop station, which would encourage players to build ships that fit into the smallest docking port trading stations have to offer. If additionally docking would be changed from "Docking beam—BLEWM–docked" to careful maneuvering in place (which would be awesome for other obvious reasons), players would build ships that are easier to maneuver.
    If the above is not applicable, I'm sure that we can find non-grind mechanics for other tasks, too.

    More importantly; I want factions to leave their capital ships at strategic locations (and only use them during war) and use small ships for most things (mining, exploring, cargo transport, etc).
    Hyperdrive. It will render ships equipped with it immobile, except when in hyperspace. This will encourage players to build ships that can carry smaller vessels for specific purposes.

    Grinding would be optional; as (I'd assume) every shop would sell fuel (and it wouldn't be "annoyingly over-priced").
    So the grind changes from constant fuel flow to constant money flow. No big difference.

    Also; if you want a boring game that small children can play in their sleep, then it'd be possible to add a "fuel consumption scaling factor" in the server config (that can be set to zero to disable fuel consumption).
    It's kind of sad that you seem to never have played any great games.


    Here's a scenario most of us know: After Minecraft introduced food, I built huge underground wheat farms that I had to harvest regularly, just to counter the increased need for food. I didn't really like that, it was boring and forced me to waste time that I could have spent building stuff. Instead of harvesting when I needed to heal, I had to do that to not auto-die after 15 minutes of playing.
     
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    Hyperdrive. It will render ships equipped with it immobile, except when in hyperspace. This will encourage players to build ships that can carry smaller vessels for specific purposes.
    Ew, they decided to keep this?
     
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    "NASA tests 'impossible' no-fuel quantum space engine and it actually works"
    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...el-quantum-space-engine-and-it-actually-works
    Sure it works. Slightly. And they think it might be background radiation and noise interfering with sensors. And even if it does work properly (which it doesn't and won't ever) the thrust is still so tiny it's almost pointless.

    I know I'm being a bit of a douche here but you should always be sceptical. I'm a little sick of newspapers and the like printing bullshit 'science' like this. But I should give credit to the fact that NASA is at least testing it, which does mean that there is a slight amount of viability to this.

    @sagethe13th I dunno mate, I think having control of your turrets is defence enough, or maybe you should keep around some crew in fighters to defend you while you go into hyperdrive. Y'know, teamwork.

    We can't just have people jumping hither to tither all over the place, that isn't balanced.