Starmade Game Balance

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    Hi,

    This is intended to be a full list of (my) suggested changes to correct game balance. I don't really want to suggest new features or bug fixes here; however in some cases this was necessary to address game balance issues.


    Economy

    Every item/block should have an inherent value (e.g. a thruster block may have a value of 690 credits). When there are standard conversions from one item type to another item type, the inherent value of the items should reflect those standard conversions. For example; for coarsing and refining ores, if 10000 L1 blocks of awesomite can be refined into one L2 block of awesomite (which can be coarsed back into 10000 L1 blocks), and if the value of an L1 block of awesomite is 10 credits then the value of an L2 block should be 100000 credits.

    The base price of an item in shops should depend on the inherent value of the item, the desired stock level and the quantity of that item in stock; using a formula like "price = value * ( (1 + stock_level / stock_quantity) / 2)". A shop's selling price should be higher than the base price by some factor (shop markup) and the shop's buying price should be lower than the base price by the same factor; so that shops make profit. A shop's stock level may be 10000 and a shop's markup may be 110% (but both of these could be settings in the server's configuration).

    Combining all of this; the selling price for an item in a shop should be determined by "(value * ( (1 + stock_level / stock_quantity) / 2)) * markup" and the buying price for an item in a shop should be determined by "(value * ( (1 + stock_level / stock_quantity) / 2)) / markup". There should be no arbitrary limit for the quantity of items in stock (like there currently is) and if there's a massive quantity in stock (e.g. millions of rock blocks) then the item just becomes cheap/worthless.

    For example; if the inherent value of a thruster block is 690 credits, the stock level is 10000 and shop markup is set to 110%; then a shop that has 1 thruster in stock would sell a thruster for 3795380 credits and buy a thruster for 3136677 credits, and a shop that has 100000 thrusters in stock would sell a thruster for 417 credits and buy a thruster for 345 credits.

    Reasoning: This creates the ability for players to become merchants (buying items at over-stocked shops and selling them at under-stocked shops); which would make the game more interesting and would also help to fix some problems on multiplayer servers (e.g. the shop near the initial spawn point running out of things that beginners need and shops near asteroids refusing to buy things like rock and lava). It would also encourage players to develop factories at strategic locations (e.g. near shops that have an abundance of the ingredients needed, or near shops that have a shortage of the produced item).

    In addition; shops should stock minerals. If a shop has lots of L1 awesomite and no L2 awesomite, then a player should be able to make profit by buying L1 blocks, refining them, and selling L2 blocks. However, the desired stock level should depend on the mineral's level (e.g. "mineral_stock_level = stock_level / (mineral_level * mineral_level)", so that if the normal desired stock level is 10000 then a shop would try to keep 10000 L1 blocks, 2500 L2 blocks, 1111 L3 blocks, 625 L4 blocks and 400 L5 blocks). Note: Before complaining about this being massively unbalanced, please see the "Minerals" section below.

    Reasoning: This creates the ability for players to become miners (selling minerals to shops), or create mineral processing plants (making profit from refining/coarsing minerals), or create manufacturing plants (buying minerals and selling items like thruster and shield blocks).

    When the trading guild services a shop (and when the "/shop_restock" command is used) the difference between the desired stock level and the quantity in stock should be adjusted according to a restock ratio using a formula like "stock_quantity = stock_quantity + (stock_level - stock_quantity) / restock_ratio". The restock ratio may be 50 (but could be a setting in the server's configuration). For example, if the restock ratio is 50 and the stock level is 10000; then if a shop had 1 item in stock then it'd end up having 201 items in stock after restocking, and if a shop had 100000 items in stock then it'd end up having 98200 items in stock after restocking. This is a minor change to the current game (a much more complex alternative would be to simulate traders that buy and sell items from shops to make profit, just like a player controlled merchant would).


    Manufacturing

    Currently there are 2 different systems (the cubeatom system and factories). Trying to balance both systems against each other and trying to balance both systems with the economy (and maintaining the code for both) is extra work for little gain. The cubeatom system is poorly documented, isn't understood by most players, is currently buggy and isn't very logical/realistic. Therefore my first suggestion here is to remove the cubeatom system from the game entirely.

    The first step in balancing the factory system is adjusting the randomly generated recipes. For the initial recipe; the sum of the inherent values of the ingredients multiplied by an efficiency ratio should be (approximately) equal to the inherent value of the produced item/block. The efficiency ratio may be 4 (but could be a setting in the server's configuration); and should be set so that initially a player loses net worth by manufacturing, but after the recipe has improved the player gains net worth by manufacturing.

    For example, if a block of L1 awesomite has an inherent value of 10 credits and a hardened hull block has an inherent value of 2716 credits, then a recipe that converts awesomite into hardened hulls would initially consume 1086 blocks of L1 awesomite per hardened hull (items with a total value of 10860 credits converted into an item that has a value of 2716 credits); but after the recipe has improved (so that it produces 10 times as much) it would consume an average of 1086 blocks of awesomite per hardened hull (items with a total value of 10860 credits converted into 10 items that have a total value of 27160 credits).

    Reasoning: The current recipes are excessively erratic, which makes it impossible to effectively balance. The current recipes also allow a player to keep buying recipes (using the best recipe they've previously obtained to produce items to buy new recipes) until they get lucky, which means that with little work players end up producing massive amounts of expensive blocks from very few cheap raw materials.

    Higher level minerals should be possible ingredients for randomly generated recipes. For example, a recipe for an expensive item (e.g. faction module) might consume some L2 minerals instead of lots of L1 minerals.

    Reasoning: Currently the only sane thing to do with higher level minerals is to coarse them, and there's no reason for anyone to bother refining minerals. If some recipes used higher level minerals then it'd make the game more interesting.

    Some recipes should not be random and should not improve through use. For example, the recipes for coloured (hardened and normal) hulls should always consume one (hardened or normal) grey hull block and one paint of the corresponding colour, and the recipe for yhole nucleus should always consume one yhole. Recipes for raw materials (rock, ice, wood, foliage, etc) should not exist at all.

    Reasoning: For these cases the current system doesn't seem very logical. Removing the recipes for raw materials makes mining and exploring more interesting.

    Currently, because factories are so badly balanced (over powered) the prices of recipes is hideous (so that only people that can gather enough blocks to buy the recipe can use/abuse it). After factories are balanced, the prices of recipes should be severely reduced (e.g. set to 10000 credits and nothing else, with no refunds) to encourage an economy based more on supply/demand and player skill/effort (and so that the economy is less like "the rich get richer").


    Minerals

    Currently coarsing and refining minerals is extremely unbalanced. For example, a single L3 mineral block can be sold to a shop for 1614 credits; or it can be coarsed to produce 100000000 L1 blocks which can then be converted in a factory (with a "lucky" recipe) into 1000000000 hardened hulls worth 2716 credits each (1614 credits vs. 2716000000000 credits - seems a little unbalanced to me). The suggested changes above fix this (e.g. an L3 mineral block would have an inherent value of 1000000000 credits and you're not going to get a "lucky" recipe).

    However, at 10000:1 the number of lower level blocks you get from coarsing (and the number of lower level blocks you need for refining) is still excessive. For example, a single L5 mineral block represents 10000000000000000 L1 blocks. I suggest nerfing this ratio down to 20:1; so that you only need 20 L1 blocks to create an L2 block (and only get 20 L1 blocks from coarsing an L2 block), and so that an L5 block represents 160000 L1 blocks.

    Reasoning: This helps to make mining a sane career choice, rather than the current "get one L3 block and never need any more of that mineral ever again" approach.


    Inherent Block Value

    These need some work/balancing, but there's lots of items with different prices and I don't want to list every single item here. Instead, I'm only going to mention a few that stand out to me.

    Currently hardened hulls are about 12 times as expensive as normal hulls. Hardened hulls only have twice as much HP and twice as much armour as normal hulls, and therefore should only be about 4 times as expensive as normal hulls. This brings their price down to about 900 credits each. The price of glass should (still) be between normal hulls and hardened hulls (as it has the same HP and armour as normal hulls but is a little special) so the value of glass would need to be dropped to around 500 credits too.

    Minerals need to be more expensive (L1 minerals have the same value as plain old rock). The price of an L1 mineral should be about about 150 credits (which would make an L5 block worth 24000000 credits after the change to the coarsing/refining ratio).


    Loot

    The other thing that could effect the economy is loot from destroying enemy ships and stations (e.g. pirates). In my opinion, the loot from pirate ships is currently a little excessive, but (because pirate stations quickly become rare, especially in multiplayer) this probably shouldn't be changed until/unless pirate bases become less rare (maybe they should spawn more often, I don't know). Pirate ships are the same - currently too much loot, but also too rare.


    Weapons

    Conventional weapons are mostly right how they are (anti-matter cannons for short/medium range faster moving targets and missiles for longer range slower moving targets). My only suggestions here is to increase the speed of heat-seeker missiles (e.g. 50% faster than fire and forget) and increase the distance they travel before trying to lock onto a heat source (currently people don't use them much because the risk of blowing up your own turrets is too high). The speed of dumb-fire missiles needs to be even faster (e.g. 100% faster than fire and forget).

    Disintegrators are also mostly right. A single disintegrator block can do a lot of damage (especially against targets that don't have shields) and the radius of the blast should probably be less for a single-block (e.g. 5 block radius for a single disintegrator, increasing to a 20 block radius for a large group of disintegrators).


    Misc. Devices

    The power drain beam can be a weapon (e.g. a "vampire" ship) but it can also be a used for fleet support (e.g. support ship with exposed power for other ships to take). There's no statistics or other information on how power drain beams work anywhere (in the game or on the internet) so I'm relying on some testing I did and a little guesswork for balancing these. From what I can tell the number of power drain blocks effects how often the beam takes power from the target and how much power it takes. This makes small arrays of power drain beams (e.g. less than 15 blocks) useless/annoying because it's too hard to keep the beam aimed at the target's exposed power blocks for long enough to do anything at all (especially during battle or if you or the target is moving). I'd suggest a very small fixed delay between individual drains (so it seems like a continuous drain) where the number of blocks in an array only effects how much power is drained per second, so that small ships equipped with power drain beams are practical. For fleet support, power drain beams stun the friendly supply ship's regen and continue to drain the friendly supply ship's power when your ship's power tanks are full. This makes using power drain beams for fleet support awkward (e.g. a few ships could waste all of the supply ship's power by accident). To fix this; if the target belongs to the same faction, the target's power regen shouldn't be stunned and draining shouldn't occur if your ship's tanks are full.

    Power supply beams and astrotechno beams don't really effect game balance much, so I'm skipping them.

    Jammers and cloakers are mostly unbalanced. Jamming consumes 50 e/sec per block and cloaking consumes 100 e/sec per block (e.g. if a ship has 20 blocks then it needs 3000 e/sec power regen to sustain both cloak and jammer). Power regeneration gets more efficient (regen per block) as it approches 600 blocks per power group. This means that it's easier to get enough power regen to perma-cloak a large ship with low mass (e.g. 200 * 100 * 200) than it is to get enough power regen to perma-cloak a small ship (e.g. 16*10*20 with less mass). For larger ships (about 6600 blocks) you hit the "1 million e/sec" regen limit and perma-cloak becomes virtually unobtainable beyond that. For temporary cloak, due to the way power tanks work (more power tanks means more power storage per tank) it's even easier with a huge ship (where you have the space to throw a very large number of power tanks on it and get a large amount of storage per power tank to extend the time cloaked). All of this seems backwards to me - it should be easier to cloak a small ship than to cloak a medium/large ship, regardless of whether it's temporary or permanent cloaking. For example, it should be possible to perma-cloak a tiny (e.g. 16*10*20) ship while still having hardened hulls, some (weak) shields, some (weak) weaponry and usable thrust. My suggestion here is that both cloaking and jamming should consume a non-linear amount of power. For example, "power_consumption = K * total_blocks * total_blocks / 600" where "K" is 1 for jammers and 3 for cloaking.

    Note: I'm aware that the suggested changes to power drain beams combined with cloaking/jamming changes makes it easy to have a small perma-cloaked "vampire" ship that hunts down large un-armoured ships and leaches their power. This is intentional (large ships should have armour/hulls).

    Salvaging cannons are mostly fine how they are. However, they don't consume any power at all (and some people have massive planet eating ships with 3*245 arrays of "200 block" salvaging beams, who are flying around devouring entire worlds with no downside!). Each salvaging cannon block should consume around 20 e/sec of power. I think the same applies to astrotechno beams (which should also consume some power) but I haven't tested that.


    Shields

    The current shield capacity and shield regeneration rate are fine. The time a shield takes to recover after taking damage is also fine; however I don't like "steps" (e.g. people refusing to add one more block of shields because they have 4095 shield blocks and one more block would suddenly add 50% to their shield recovery time). For this reason shield recovery should be replaced with a (roughly equivelent) formula that gives a smooth curve rather than steps, like "recovery = (shield_blocks / 1024) * (shield_blocks / 1024)".

    Shield regeneration power consumption is too little. Currently 1 point of shields consumes 1 point of power and the power consumed by shield regeneration is virtually unnoticable on any ship of any size. This should be increased by a factor of about 10 (so that it takes 10 points of power to create 1 point of shields). In addition; it should cost some power to maintain the shields (when they aren't regenerating), like 20% of the power consumed by regeneration. For example, with 1000 shield blocks you'd have 80678 shield capacity and 268 s/sec regeneration, so it would consume 2680 e/sec for about 30 seconds to regenerate fully after shields are down, then continue to consume 536 e/sec to keep the shields at full strength.


    Power

    The current power generation and power storage is fine. What isn't fine is that power generation blocks create power from nothing, and a huge ship that consumes a lot of power (for thrusters, shields and weapons) has zero running costs. For balancing the game (and giving people a reason to use small/medium ships) the game needs fuel and fuel tanks. A fuel tank block should store 100 units of fuel, and power generation blocks should convert one unit of fuel into 100 units of power (so with 1234 fuel tanks you'd store 123400 units of fuel and be able to generate 12340000 units of power). Fuel should be purchased from shops and should cost 1 credit per unit. This means that (for example) a ship with 1000 shield blocks that consumes 536 e/sec of power to maintain shields would also cost 5.36 units of fuel per second (and cost the owner 19296 credits per hour in refueling costs). A player should also have the ability to turn their shields off (more specifically, stop shield maintenance and let the shields naturally deplete) to avoid these running costs. When docked, turrets should automatically take fuel from the ship they're docked on (so that turrets don't need fuel or fuel tanks).

    In addition, the game needs solar panel blocks that do generate power from "nothing" (without any fuel costs or fuel tanks). The power generated by a solar panel would be around 20 e/sec, with the restriction that the solar panels must be on the outside of the ship; where "outside of the ship" means no solid blocks attached to the same ship (at any distance) in at least one of the 6 (left, right, up, down, fore, aft) directions (so that it's not too complex to implement). This makes solar panels a good target for weapons (less HP and armour than hulls), especially power drain beams (as you'd have to have them exposed). This gives players the ability to design "green" (free to run) ships that use on solar energy alone (for example, a flat 100*100 ship lined with solar panels on the top and bottom would generate 400000 e/sec), or to use a mixture of solar and fuel (e.g. have just enough solar panels to cover the power consumption caused by shield maintenance), or to have an armoured ship (where all power comes from fuel to avoid weak points in the outer hull).


    Ship Handling

    Note: I suspect that for large ships bad handling (with no way to design any large ship with good handling regardless of how much weapons/shields/armour you sacrifice in the name of thrust) is being used for game balance. When fuel is added to the game this shouldn't be necessary (fuel/power costs, fuel tank mass and thruster mass should be enough to preserve game balance).

    Forward thrust for ships is fine. Everything else doesn't make any sense (there's no thrusters in any other directions so there should be no thrust in any other directions, and current ships shouldn't be able to turn, strafe, roll or slow down). Ignoring logic/physics; turning is fine for "baby ships" and too slow for everything else. Rolling (which probably should be the same rotational speed as turning) is too fast for small/medium ships, but can also be very "twitchy" (pressing 'Z' or 'X' very briefly can cause an uncontrollable 60 degree roll depending on luck and frame rate, especially when you're close to a large object like a planet).

    Essentially; all other thrust (reverse, strafe, turn and roll) need to be like forward thrust, using directional thrusters and very similar "mass/thrust" ratios; so that the player can choose their own compromise between ship mass, acceleration and power consumption (and fuel consumption and running costs). This would also allow some very different ship handling characteristics (e.g. ships with weak directional thrusters, where you need to rotate the ship and use the powerful rear thrusters to slow down) rather than having "all ships of similar masses have identical handling regardless of how they're designed".

    The current game already allows thrusters to be placed so that they point in any direction. All thrusters in a thruster group would need to have the same orientation (any thrusters with a different orientation would be in a different thruster group). A ship should have 6 values for thrust (forward, backward, left, right, top, bottom). These thrust values are used directly for directional movement (forward, reverse, sliding/strafing). Each rotation should use the average of 4 out of the 6 thrust values - e.g. for turning left/right you'd average forward, backward, left and right thrust (top and bottom thrusters don't help you turn left/right any faster); for turning up/down you'd average forward, backward, top and bottom thrust; and for rolling clockwise and anti-clockwise you'd average left, right, top and bottom thrust. This also means that a ship with rear thrusters and nothing else will be able to turn left/right/up/down (but won't be able to strafe, slow down or roll).

    Also; for ship rotation (but not turrets) the game should use the center of the ship's bounding box as a "pivot point" (where the center of the ship's bounding box is a crude approximation for the ship's center of mass), and the game should not use the location of the ship's core for ship rotation. Ideally this should include rotations caused by collisions (not just rotations caused by thrusters).

    Note: The suggested changes to ship handling are intended to be relatively easy to implement while also being "good enough" (given that this is a game and not a physics simulator). These suggested changes are not perfectly realistic, and better thrust (and center of mass) behaviour is entirely possible (at the expense of much more complex implementation and related code maintenance issues).

    Given that I'm suggesting a ship needs more thrusters (in more directions), the amount of thrust generated by thrusters should also be tripled to compensate for the extra space thrusters would otherwise need to consume on ships.


    Turret Handling

    Turret turning (left, right, up, down) should be the same as ship turning (turrets without thrusters shouldn't turn at all, and adding more thrusters to the turret should make it turn faster). This would make turrets more challenging to design, and would mean that huge fast turning turrets consume a lot more power/fuel (and have higher running costs) than smaller or slower turning turrets.


    Other Notes

    A ship's mass should include the mass of all docked ships and turrets. This prevents exploits - e.g. ships with very little mass that use huge turrets, internally docked power supplies (and power drain beams to transfer power from them to the small ship) and docked shields in an attempt to get all the advantages of a large ship while avoiding the disadvantages of a large ship's mass (and breaking game balance for large ships).

    Either docking areas should not be allowed to overlap (easier to implement), or turrets/ships should not be allowed to dock if they could overlap (harder to implement). This prevents more exploits (20 large turrets all overlapping on a tiny ship, lots of internally docked 30*30 power supply ships squeezed into a 30*40 space, etc).

    Weapons where the output is behind other blocks should damage/destroy the blocks in front of them even if those blocks are part of the same ship/turret. This prevents people from hiding weapons behind hardened hulls, and may make damage more interesting (e.g. if the weapon's output block is destroyed by an enemy the game chooses a new weapon output block which may be behind something important). It also makes ship/turret design a little more challenging/realistic (e.g. people designing weapon arrays more carefully in case the weapon's output block is destroyed).

    Beams (salvage, astrotechno, power drain, power supply, etc) should also effect any blocks in front of them, even if those blocks are part of the same ship/turret. This may allow for new interesting/obscure ship designs (e.g. a layer of astrotechnobeams placed behind hardened hulls so that a ship can self-heal its own front armour; a salvaging cannon behind a disintegrator tipped ramming pole so that the pilot can remove/salvage their ramming pole in flight before docking, etc).

    Thruster groups should be disabled (shouldn't contribute to thrust or consume power) if/when the group doesn't have at least one thruster that is "exposed" (no solid blocks attached to the same ship at any distance in the direction that the thruster's back is facing). This prevents unrealistic "chicken roaster" ships (where thrusters do nothing more than heat up the inside of the ship like a fan forced oven).

    Please note that the exposed weapon output and exposed thruster suggestions are intended to improve combat; so that ships must have some weak points that skilled pilots can target, and so that players can choose different combat tactics for difference scenarios. For example, a skilled pilot might assess a capital ship's design and decide to take out its thrusters to stop it escaping before attempting to take out the heavily armoured core (rather than having "only bother targetting the core" combat).
     
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    No regrets in reading the entire thing. I especially like the idea of implementing a better factory system (I own an OP factory in a server). However if fuel and solar panel are to be implemented, the cost of various items (cloak, weapons, shields, etc.) would have to be reduced to preserve some gameplay value for noob ish players. Or maybe keep current generators and add the new ones, but nerf their regen ability ( and buff solar panels slightly). PvP would be much more interesting, but less frequent. As fueling up every 5 sectors will get tedious and frustrating. Or maybe it seems that way to my brain since it 2200. Idk

    basically, a good balance related suggestion, but lengthy



    Edit:

    Note that game balance may come much later in the game, like in beta. Fuel mechanic would also be fairly... complex. would have to be optional or make it more powerful then generators (similair to IC2 Nuclear reactors and Solar panels respectively.
     
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    meh considering that it takes my refinery almost an hour and a half to completely coarse some L5 ore, nerfing should just reduce by 1000%(making ores only produce 100 lower ore per coarse)or whatever. either way i want to make a decent profit from spending 100000 credits per ore plus money for the refinery and recipes AND spending 2 hours waiting for it to coarse all the way.
     
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    Hi,

    Currently there\'s plenty of people exploiting seriously messed up game balance. In case there\'s someone left that hasn\'t figured out how to exploit the game properly, here\'s how to do it right:

    a) Log into a server and use your starting credits to buy \"refine \" recipes. Immediately sell these recipes back to the shop to get L2 minerals. Sell those L2 minerals back to the shop too. You should be able to get about 50 million credits in less than an hour of doing this (but you don\'t need that many credits).

    b) While you\'re flying around doing the \"refine \" scam; use your credits to buy one (and only one) high level mineral block for each of the 16 types of minerals. Ideally you want one L5 of each mineral (but L4 is good enough).

    c) Buy a faction module, shop module, 16 factory inputs, lots of factory enhancers, a build block and plenty of power regen and power tank blocks. Find a planet and claim it. Setup a mineral coarsing factory. Do not coarse your high level minerals (yet).

    d) Build a pretend ship using a ships core and the 16 high level minerals you collected. Save it in the catalogue as a private blueprint. Then destroy the ship to get your high level minerals back. If you want you can do this in single-player beforehand (have a pre-saved \"L5 ship\" in your local catalogue to upload).

    e) Start coarsing. Whenever you run out of high level minerals to coarse, buy your \"pretend ship\" full of minerals from your own shop (using the catalogue entry you created) and destroy it to get more high level minerals.

    f) Spend all your time finding shops that will still buy L1 minerals. If/when you can\'t find any, start refining them and sell L2 minerals.

    g) If you don\'t have many billion dollars after the first 2 hours, buy more factory enhancers.



    One of the goal of balancing the game is to fix exploits like this, so that people need to look out for for supply/demand opportunities instead of just churning minerals.

    For example; let\'s say some rich guy wants to live in a big yellow submarine. He goes to a few nearby shops and buys most of the yellow hardened hulls. Some merchants notice the supply shortage and realise they can make profit buying yellow hulls from shops further away and selling them. Then a manufacturer (who\'s looking for opportunities for profit) sees there\'s a shortage of yellow hulls and starts manufacturing them. The manufacturer needs awesomite and negatate for his recipe so he creates a shortage of those minerals. The merchants notice that too, and start selling minerals and buying hulls near the manufacturer, and selling the hulls and buying minerals for more profit. Then a miner comes along and notices the mineral shortage. He\'s a smart guy and knows which asteroids to mine to get them, so now he\'s busy making profit mining and supplying minerals to the merchants.

    Everyone is making profit doing their part in the supply chain (except the rich guy who\'s happy that he can get lots of yellow hardened hulls to build his magnificent submarine).
     
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    This is a great, very detailed list of suggestions.



    I\'m skeptical about 2 things, one being the fuel.



    It\'s possible that adding a fuel mechanic like that might make maintenance a real chore instead of fun. If this were to be implemented, I would like to see an additional block similar to the powerdrain beam, except the opposite function. Like a block that fuels other ships. It could work similarly to weapons like AMC\'s, where the shape of the polygon and number of blocks influences the efficiency at which it dispenses fuel. For now, I\'ll call it the \"Refuel Block\"



    Also(to add depth to my above statement), I would suggest that alongside having units of fuel and fuel blocks, and refuel blocks, you have fuel computers. Fuel that your ship uses would be the fuel tanks connected to the computer. However, you can also connect the refuel blocks to these computers. In this way, the refuel block would fuel another player\'s ship for instance, by draining the fuel in the tanks connected to the same computer that the refuel block is connected too. This could influence a new way to make profit, by having refuel ships charge refueling fees. Furthermore, I think that in the way you suggest being able to turn off shields, you should have the option to choose from which \"Fuel Computer\" you want to use to currently fuel your ship. At the very least, if your main tank was damaged/destroyed in combat, you could switch to reserve tanks. Which would add depth to combat. I don\'t think power generation should come to a complete halt though if you run out of fuel, but it would be cool if it started to drain to simulate that the ship is shutting down due to lack of fuel.



    I also think it would be cool if a fuel tank is hit during combat, an explosive AoE goes off proportional to the size and pattern of the polygon of fuel. This would incentivize it as a target in combat even more than just to disable a ship.



    My only concern with the fuel mechanic is that it would be a hard-to-learn barrier of entry for new players. There\'s a lot of conditions to consider with such a mechanic, and it could be un-fun to many players. I\'m not sure that creating power from nothing is actually an imbalance in the game. It may be a design decision to preserve simplicity. However, considering the fairly complex nature of efficiency patterns in the power generating blocks, I could be wrong.



    Secondly, I\'m surprised that throughout this suggestion you never mentioned any changes for the mechanics of the ship core. It\'s my opinion that \"Core Drilling\" as the only tactic worth pursuing is a detriment to combat depth and strategy. I applaud you for making good suggestions to improve combat depth and incentivize the other systems even more. However, I feel like with the current mechanics of the ship-core overheating and insta-gibbing the pilot, all of the changes related to ship systems would be overlooked during combat.



    I proposed an idea here: http://star-made.org/content/overhaul-ship-core



    It\'s simple and clear, and I believe it would add a significant amount of depth to the game.



    However, I would like to understand your stance on the ship-core mechanics. Would you agree that the core being overheated and instantly killing the pilot is a detriment to combat by incentivizing the core too much over the other systems of the ship? If so, what would you propose to change it? If not, why?



    I\'m asking because, you\'ve come up with very detailed suggestions here that I for the most part agree with. I want to know your perspective on the matter and attempt to understand it if it\'s different.



    But overall, great thread with great suggestions. +1
     
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    What if the \"target\" representing the enemy is based on the enemy ship\'s center instead of the exact position of the core? Its exploitable though :(

    Or instead of the above

    Have some kind of Core-Unfinder that make the core-target sight move, or multiply, so it\'s harder to know where the weakest point (the core) is.
     
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    • Legacy Citizen 2
    • Legacy Citizen
    I\'ll try to address each section separately. Let\'s start with the beginning - Economy.

    I agree with the inherent value for each value. I do agree with the shop \"markup\".

    The problem here is managing stocks, and you\'re not presenting a solution for it.

    So, and using the thruster, if I buy 99999 (max atm) thrusters from a shop with a stock of 100000 units, I will pay 417 for each, or a total of 41.699.583 credits. Then I\'ll try to find a shop with only a few thrusters, let\'s say 1 (ohh wait.. The shop I\'m at have 100000-99999=1 thruster), and sell 10000 Thrusters for a total of 31.366.770.000. It\'s way worse.

    The problem here is you\'re not accounting for stock changes on the fly. Players sell and buy stuff in bunches, so for your formula to work, you need to add a succession to it (the price of 10 items = the price of 1 item at stock=n + \"new\" price after stock=n-1+ etc.). Also I don\'t like that formula because it\'s linear. Something like the Normal Distribution would be better, because you can have a mean (in this case 690) and a standard deviation (all customizable by admins). You can then work from there and set a relation between the normal distribution and the available stock to set prices, with max and min cap values.

    The rest of the economy related stuff is fine by me.
     
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    As mentioned above, even with nerfs I still want to make a profit from coarsing ores. And is the old factory list in the features forum work?
     
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    Hi,

    Energy: If a shop has 99999 thrusters and you buy them all, then the first you buy will be cheap, the second will be slightly less cheap, and so on, until the last thruster you buy is extremely expensive. You do not get 99999 thrusters at the initial cheap price. If you then sell all the 99999 thrusters to the same shop, the same thing happens in reverse - you get a very good price for the first thruster, slightly less for the next and so on. Due to shop markup you can\'t make the same amount of money that you paid doing this.

    To make profit as a merchant you\'d need to find a shop that is an abundance and sell to a shop that has a shortage. For example; find a shop that has 14000 thrusters and buy 4000 of them then sell these to one or more other shops that have less than 9000 thrusters in stock, so that you\'re selling at a price that is high enough to cover the shop\'s markup plus a bit more (your profit).

    Of course a merchant wouldn\'t just buy and sell one type of item - they\'d have a ship equipped with chests and fly around buying all over-stocked items and selling all understocked items.

    Also note that in my original post I tried not to suggest new features (and only balance the game). There are many new features that could be suggested that would compliment the economy; like \"bulk discounts\" (where part of the shop\'s markup is waived if you buy a large number of items); subtracting materials for pirates and trader guild ships from shops when the ships are spawned (to create artificial stock changes and more demand); AI run factories; and having some sort of \"mission computer\" where players can get cargo missions that involve shifting stock from over-stocked shops (and/or AI factories) to under-stocked shops (and other types of missions - mercenary missions/bounties, passanger transport missions, etc).
     
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    Hi,

    EpicFailLord123: Some people will be unhappy if they can\'t exploit the game\'s brokeness and make profit from \"mindless churning\" without any skill at all. I don\'t thnk any game should be designed to make these people happy. Part of my goals was to provide alternative ways of making profit that people can/should use (merchanting, processing, manufacturing and mining) where people are rewarded for skill/effort instead.
     
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    It does not, I still ah e some schemaydne advanced block things and a particle press or two. No it does not work.
     
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    I like and agree with most of what you posted, Qweesdy.



    However, I would rather see my entire weapon\'s array go offline when I lose the output block than have to worry about shooting myself from the inside out. Especially with missiles.

    It doesn\'t seem like it would be that fun to suddenly blow a large hole in my own ship because I took a grazing shot to my output block, and the missile happened to clip into the very edge of a hull block that had been flush with the original output.

    The problem becomes compounded if you try to build a ship that maximizes your visibility by placing a cockpit at the nose of your ship. How are you supposed to be able to tell that you\'ve taken enough damage to your weapons that they are now killing you when fired? The first solution to this problem that I can think of is to put the cockpit way back so I can see my weapon emitters, but that is likely to just make it hard to see enemy vessels depending on the shape of the ship.

    There\'s no easy way to see all of your weapon emitters either from one vantage point. Multiple cockpits across the ship could work to alleviate that, but attempting to switch views during combat doesn\'t seem fun since we don\'t currently have a way to switch to a specific view except to go through all the cockpits one at a time.



    I\'m not sure I like what your idea of having exposed weapons will do to ships that are attempting to go for a certain visual theme. It\'s kindof weird to see blue blocks on a ship that\'s otherwise red and yellow, but that\'s a minor gripe.



    I also don\'t see the logic of using thrusters to determine how quickly a turret turns. I\'d rather their traversal speed was either based on their mass, consumed energy, and be tweakable.

    We could use a menu similar to the one in weapons computers that allow us to take points out of rotation speed, and increase the power efficency of the turret so that it consumes less energy while moving or vice versa. The base amount of power consumed while it\'s rotating could be based on the turret\'s mass.

    Perhaps we could also define how far a turret could rotate on each axis from this menu too.
     
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    Hi,

    Jagard: You\'re right - if the weapon array\'s output block is destroyed it would be better to take the entire array offline. A weapon array should only damage a ship\'s blocks if the ship is badly designed.

    For aesthetics, you can counter-sink the weapon array\'s output block so that (e.g.) a red ship has a hole in it\'s hull for the weapon rather than a visible blue block. The way the lighting works means that the face of the weapon\'s otuput block will to too dark to see anyway. This isn\'t quite what you\'re after; but it\'s more important to prevent exploits (e.g. \"invincible\" ships that hide missile arrays behind 20 hardened hull blocks where the missile magically flies through all of the solid hardened hulls), and to give skilled pilots some visual cue so they can figure out how to take out a target\'s weapons.. If someone really cares about aesthetics (and doesn\'t care about functionality) then they can still build a ship without weapons if they want.

    The idea of using thrusters for turret turning is to have some downside to huge \"mega-turrets\" (to make them consume power/fuel to turn so that larger turrets have higher running costs) while still allowing players to choose their own compromise between turning speed and power/fuel consumption. There are more complex ways of acheiving this (e.g. a configurable \"movement computer\"). I went for the \"easiest to implement\" way that recycles existing code and code needed elsewhere (given that I suspect the game itself doesn\'t know or care about the difference between a ship and a turret, and you can have a hybrid thing that behaves like a fighter when undocked and like a turret when docked).
     
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    • Legacy Citizen 2
    • Legacy Citizen
    I know what you meant, and I was just poiting out that your formula was incomplete. I agree with the idea in general, but I just don\'t like the linearity in our formula, that\'s why I suggested the Normal Distribution for shop stock and prices control.
     
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    • Legacy Citizen 2
    • Legacy Citizen
    Yes. Drop the cubatom system!

    About the factory system, I\'ve already posted my suggestion on reddit. I\'ll quote it here.


    As I see it, the problem with the actual factory system is that you don\'t even need to mine to produce stuff. I never had a salvaging behemoth with hundreds of salvagers, and I have a factory capable of producing anything I need.

    The problem, imo, is mineral and terrain recipes. In my factory I have loops for almost every single L1 mineral, and all of this recipes are the 2x ones, with one single ingredient (example: 2x rock = L1 oxygen, and 2x L1 oxygen = Rock). This should not be possible at all. What\'s the point of salvager and mining ships, if I can create infinite amounts of mineral and terrain blocks without leaving my base?

    Also, recipes for plants should not exist. Maybe a way to farm those plants in some kind of greenhouse, one for each planet type, would be a better solution.

    With my last words in mind, the factory system is a go. You will buy recipes for modules and chips (memory, ram, etc..) and use the material you have mined or farmed to produce stuff.


    Recipes. I like to play against odds, and having some randomization in recipes is great. But, this randomization need to be worked out. Maybe using fixed ingredients but random quantities? As an example, a recipe for thruster have the follow fixed ingredients:Oxygen, Hull and a Chip. What could be random is the Oxygen level and quantity, the hull color and quantity, and the chip type and quantity. Also, the initial improvement level of the recipe can be random, with a max and min level to start with.

    With a much more balanced economy, I agree with using credits to buy recipes.
     
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    • Legacy Citizen
    quite the long read. a couple of things i would like to point out: for turrets they shouldnt need thrusters as the general idea would be to have them on a fixed rotation motor. however the overall turn speed of the turret could be dependant on its mass. secondly regarding the \"energy for nothing\" issue that so many people point out. believe it or not theres actualy a fair bit of hydrogen in space. the general idea is that the generators gather this hydrogen and convert it to energy. somthing thta might be added to this is that eather you need to have a generator exposed in order to generate energy or that a new block (ramscoop) could be added to gather it and feed the generators. this would ofcourse mean that you would have to be moving in the direction the scoop is facing in order to generate energy and would also require a battery storage on all ships to get them moving at all once the generators stop. ofcourse said battery could be a jumpstarter within the ships core.