Simplify hull/armor blocks

[Krougal]

Does it really add any value to the game to have to create wedges, heptas, etc ?

It would be much nicer to have a selection box in buildmode where you can choose the shape and it just uses up your single generic hull/armor block, regardless of the shape you place.

Paintable hull and armor would be nice too instead of having to sort through endless stacks of redundant material.

The current system is too much needless inventory micromanagement, and a lot of headaches when wedging ships.

 

[Sheldrix]

That's a good idea. I also feel like this would make things much easier and more efficient.

 

[Dannage]

I think the management adds to the game.

Though perhaps simplification comes by way of colour, so you effectively have the 4 shapes, but they only come in one colour and youcan select a colour as you're placing, to effectively 'paint' the ship as you build it.

An exception to my first point is tetras and heptas on glass and crystal. I find it very difficult in medium lighting, to see anything on the 'reverse' side, when I'm trying to smooth out the inside of cockpits. Makes me tend to just have a front slab of glass and then use hull to do the edges and round the overall shape off.

Then again, we must remember, I'm not very good at building.

 

[Noc]

I think we should go the other way. Proportional health, mass, and material cost to their volume.

 

[NeonSturm]

I think we should go the other way. Proportional health, mass, and material cost to their volume.

I would like GIMP(or PAINT, PhotoShop)-like features added. But will we get them?

• A fill (all blocks visible and the same colour|type|other-option get replaced), brush, ...
• A simple terrain editor (pushes blocks in/out, only destroy equal|similar blocks behind)
• Auto-wedging

And I made a thread earlier about it.

The response was like: Such tools avoid that you discover unique designs.

But I convinced one staff member that some helper tools might be not as bad, because some peoples tend to forget what's in their mind if they care too much about wedges and other input-barriers.

 

[Noc]

I would like GIMP(or PAINT, PhotoShop)-like features added. But will we get them?

• A fill (all blocks visible and the same colour|type|other-option get replaced), brush, ...
• A simple terrain editor (pushes blocks in/out, only destroy equal|similar blocks behind)
• Auto-wedging

And I made a thread earlier about it.

The response was like: Such tools avoid that you discover unique designs.

But I convinced one staff member that some helper tools might be not as bad, because some peoples tend to forget what's in their mind if they care too much about wedges and other input-barriers.

This is one area Space Engineers got it better. Shape and color are choices while constructing, not crafting, and have proportional strength and material cost to their volume. I won't say they should go out and copy, but it's one of the first mods I'm going to make when we get the API if you know what I mean. I don't even think I'd charge for the mod either!

 

[Lecic]

Paintable hull and armor would be nice too instead of having to sort through endless stacks of redundant material.

Problem with this is that different colors of standard/advanced use different capsule types.

 

[NeonSturm]

Problem with this is that different colors of standard/advanced use different capsule types.

no, just allow/deny dependent on colour-plates in your inventory.

 

[Edymnion]

I'd just like to be able to convert weird hull shapes back into standard cubes.

All too often after killing some pirates I'll get random armor pieces of everything but cubes. I'll have 10,000 heptas, and not a single cube to build with. So great, I've got tons of armor in the color and grade I want, but none in the shape I need.

 

[Lecic]

no, just allow/deny dependent on colour-plates in your inventory.

How would this work? An item that would work like using paint to place blocks as whatever color you want, but they cost the capsules of standard/advanced hull?

 

[NeonSturm]

How would this work? An item that would work like using paint to place blocks as whatever color you want, but they cost the capsules of standard/advanced hull?

inventory {c1, c2, c3, colour4, ... } + {metal alloy, scrap, mesh?}
- refine to ->
inventory {p1. p2, p3, plating4, ... }

place : use{basic, standard, advanced hull}
paint : remove/readd <---> inventory {p1. p2, p3, plating4, ... }

 

[Krougal]

I was thinking more along the lines of you only craft grey hull and armor blocks.
When you place them you choose the shape. If you remove them you get back a grey block again, regardless of if it was a square, wedge, etc.
To place you need the appropriate block (hull, armor, adv, crystal, etc).

As for painting after the fact, as opposed to picking a color at placement since I'm sure we all like to change our minds plenty when it comes to color. Especially since you need to look at things from different angles and in different lighting to judge how well it looks.

 

[Krougal]

And another necro just cause I'm in that kinda mood (promise that's it for the night).

 

[alterintel]

I was thinking more along the lines of you only craft grey hull and armor blocks.
When you place them you choose the shape. If you remove them you get back a grey block again, regardless of if it was a square, wedge, etc.
To place you need the appropriate block (hull, armor, adv, crystal, etc).

As for painting after the fact, as opposed to picking a color at placement since I'm sure we all like to change our minds plenty when it comes to color. Especially since you need to look at things from different angles and in different lighting to judge how well it looks.

I really like this idea, And I don't care that it's a necro. People are always saying "use the search button"
I'm not sure how much more memory it would take up. But color and shape of armor blocks should be stored as "orientation" data instead of takeing up a whole new block ID. It would also make it easier when filling Blue Prints.

 

[Ithirahad]

Agreed fully. Or, if not, at least make hull/armor reshaping recipes reversible with a reversion recipe. I should not have to manufacture a completely new stack of armor because I accidentally cut it all into wedges. or because I made 10 too many pentas and am now missing those last full blocks I need.

 

[Comradecolonel]

Here's another idea. What if we went with the idea that the blocks have as much mass and volume as the given shape. When you are crafting, you will have to start with cubes and then craft the other block from the cubes (the way it is now). When you craft the other shapes however, you get the equivalent of actually breaking down the cube. So if you want to build heptas, you'll use cubes as the input and get a hepta and tetra in return. If you want a wedge, one cube will equal 2 wedges. Corners are a little weird in shape so maybe you get 2? I would imagine you understand the concept though.

As far as building with them I think the best option for right now would be to simply make orientation for all blocks global. Meaning if my heptas are facing one way then the tetras should line up too. I think it would be best as a setting too. Auto tools like auto wedging i think would be good for new players but should obviously remain optional otherwise more advanced builders will get frustrated.

 

[Ithirahad]

Here's another idea. What if we went with the idea that the blocks have as much mass and volume as the given shape. When you are crafting, you will have to start with cubes and then craft the other block from the cubes (the way it is now). When you craft the other shapes however, you get the equivalent of actually breaking down the cube. So if you want to build heptas, you'll use cubes as the input and get a hepta and tetra in return. If you want a wedge, one cube will equal 2 wedges. Corners are a little weird in shape so maybe you get 2? I would imagine you understand the concept though.

The problem here is that wedges and tetras and the like have the same health and armor as full blocks. Nerfing this would be a bad idea (Wedges would be uncompetitive! :P ) and so the result would be that people would start using the flat sides of wedges as their ship's full armor because it weighs less. Not only is this silly, but it will also cause all kinds of FPS lag because of all those extra bits of exposed geometry the game has to render despite us not actually seeing them.

 

[Comradecolonel]

The problem here is that wedges and tetras and the like have the same health and armor as full blocks. Nerfing this would be a bad idea (Wedges would be uncompetitive! :p ) and so the result would be that people would start using the flat sides of wedges as their ship's full armor because it weighs less. Not only is this silly, but it will also cause all kinds of FPS lag because of all those extra bits of exposed geometry the game has to render despite us not actually seeing them.

Sorry I forgot to mention that the health of the blocks would be equivalent to the mass as well. You're right that would obviously break the game. I figured this would simplify the crafting system for hull and also making block choice a little more interesting.

 

[Benevolent27]

I like the premise here, but I don't like the idea. I think making wedges and other blocks is good.

But, I do have an idea which would accomplish the same goal. In the advanced build menu, add a "smoothing tool." When using it, it automatically detects which blocks are near and places the appropriate block to smooth them (connecting the edges). For instance, let's say you have a _| type line. Select the type of armor stack you want, put smooth mode on, it will place a wedge, facing in the correct direction, if you place a block somewhere on the edge (but not the corner). Put it in the corner and it places a corner piece of that armor (assuming you have one). Or if needed, a hepta. This is assuming you have the necessary block in the stack you have selected. If you try to place a block down where it cannot be "smoothed", then no block is placed. If using replace mode, it will detect whether it is removing a corner block or somewhere in a line on the edge and place a corner or wedge. If you use the mouse wheel it gives you different options, but they would be faced the correct way. This would make ROUND type designs a LOT easier and would increase the possible shapes people create. A lot of people don't like to make complicated curved shapes, because it is so difficult smoothing it out. But this would solve that problem.

 

[FatCobra]

I like the premise here, but I don't like the idea. I think making wedges and other blocks is good.

But, I do have an idea which would accomplish the same goal. In the advanced build menu, add a "smoothing tool." When using it, it automatically detects which blocks are near and places the appropriate block to smooth them (connecting the edges). For instance, let's say you have a _| type line. Select the type of armor stack you want, put smooth mode on, it will place a wedge, facing in the correct direction, if you place a block somewhere on the edge (but not the corner). Put it in the corner and it places a corner piece of that armor (assuming you have one). Or if needed, a hepta. This is assuming you have the necessary block in the stack you have selected. If you try to place a block down where it cannot be "smoothed", then no block is placed. If using replace mode, it will detect whether it is removing a corner block or somewhere in a line on the edge and place a corner or wedge. If you use the mouse wheel it gives you different options, but they would be faced the correct way. This would make ROUND type designs a LOT easier and would increase the possible shapes people create. A lot of people don't like to make complicated curved shapes, because it is so difficult smoothing it out. But this would solve that problem.

I hate comparing to minecraft things but this reminds me of the minecraft mod Carpenter's Blocks which had this feature. I completely agree it would not only make "skinning" a ship easier t would also make it faster. I'm not sure how it would work with block IDs though. Might be worth looking into.