Shops are not homebases!

[Jasper1991]

As most people know, trading guild shops are completely invincible, well this also includes entities docked to advanced shops.

Here is the big problem, on servers that focus on PVP interaction, the ability to dock to a shop is drastically overpowered, why?

An entire factions assets can be docked to one of these with chain docking or just having a massive platform with rail docks docked to an advanced shop and if this is one, anyone can basically have an invincible, hidden homebase.

Not only are they completed immune to all forms of damage, but a with all the shops in the galaxy, they are basically impossible to find.

This is outright overpowered, the only place that should be safe in StarMade is an actual homebase.

Now I know what your thinking... "Homebases are basically invincible anyways so it does not matter"

Firstly homebases are easily able to be found and can be put under siege, while 1 shop out of hundreds, potentially thousands is not able to be found

Secondly this problem is particularly bad on Reverse Faction Point servers, where other territory is required to keep your homebase invulnerable, an advanced shop homebase effectively bypasses these mechanics and removes the need to claim territory and be completed hidden.

I propose that the simple solution to this overpowered exploit of game mechanics is to completely remove rail docks from advanced shops (they may also be other ways to do this and I would love to hear them)

 

[kiddan]

Instead of removing the rails on the advanced shops why not have a toll players have to pay? When docking a message would pop up saying:

"You will be charged X Credits every hour whilst docked here."

And have the options:

"Dock" or "Cancel"

The number of credits taken from the player, as well as the time between charges, would be an option in the config.

 

[Mork2]

I thought the point of those docks at shops was so you can dock up and actually buy and sell stuff without getting blown apart by someone else while doing so.....

 

[Jasper1991]

Instead of removing the rails on the advanced shops why not have a toll players have to pay? When docking a message would pop up saying:

"You will be charged X Credits every hour whilst docked here."

And have the options:

"Dock" or "Cancel"

The number of credits taken from the player, as well as the time between charges, would be an option in the config.

That solves the invulnerability problem, but it doesn't solve the problem of them being hidden

I thought the point of those docks at shops was so you can dock up and actually buy and sell stuff without getting blown apart by someone else while doing so.....

Citation please

Also, if this was the case then how come you only have this luxury in advanced shops?

 

[Mork2]

You can set it for normal shops its in the server.cfg.

SHOP_RAILS_ON_ADV = true //Advanced shops will have 4 rails dockers that can be used like a neutral homebase (anything docked is safe)
SHOP_RAILS_ON_NORMAL = true //Normal shops will have 4 rails dockers that can be used like a neutral homebase (anything docked is safe)

 

[Jasper1991]

You can set it for normal shops its in the server.cfg.

SHOP_RAILS_ON_ADV = true //Advanced shops will have 4 rails dockers that can be used like a neutral homebase (anything docked is safe)
SHOP_RAILS_ON_NORMAL = true //Normal shops will have 4 rails dockers that can be used like a neutral homebase (anything docked is safe)

WHY ARE WE NOT FUNDING THIS!?

 

[Mork2]

Maybe you could drop the invulnerability if a logged in player isn't aligned with the docked ship.

 

[kiddan]

Maybe you could drop the invulnerability if a logged in player isn't aligned with the docked ship.

This could work out quite well, actually! There isn't going to be a player aligned 24/7, so permanent shop bases wouldn't be quite as worthwhile.

 

[Mork2]

I'm not sure what you mean by:

WHY ARE WE NOT FUNDING THIS!?

If you mean why didn't people know about this: It is listed in the patch notes
StarMade News - StarMade v0.19549 Faction Permissions, Player Protection, Streamlining, and Fixes

Advanced TG shops now have docking rails by default. Server admins can also activate this feature on normal TG shops if desired, or switch it off completely. Changing the option does not require a database reset, however the docking rails will only appear on newly generated shops.

If you mean you can't find the docks on normal shops I assume that server doesn't have them enabled. Or if you have been next to the shop since the server config has been changed it only applies to newly spawned shops but you might be able to get it to newly spawn after the sector that the shop is gets unloaded from the server and reloaded back in. (Not sure on the exact terminology)

 

[Lecic]

I hope you're aware of the irony of YOU complaining about this given your faction affiliation.

Anyway, this is a server config option. If you have a problem with it, talk to the admin(s).

 

[Master_Artificer]

I appreciate it, that way when someone camps the homebase and I have a ship stashed somewhere I can jump to it and get set up while not under rocket fire, and try to ambush the blockaders.

Then again, the servers I used to play on had very very low shop spawns (maybe 1-2 per system) and with advanced shops being like 1 in 8 they were very uncommon and an asset of something to actually fight over.

 

[Jasper1991]

I hope you're aware of the irony of YOU complaining about this given your faction affiliation.

Ladies and Gentlemen, just so that everyone is aware, being a member of a faction that is hostile to factions that utilize game mechanics in a way that makes them overpowered makes any and all arguments to nerf broken features invalid.

#LekekLogic

On a serious note if this is a server config option, this should be turned *OFF* by default, there is no benefits to having rail dockers on invincible shops that counter the simple fact that they are invincible, 99% hidden and remove the need to have a homebase or have territory

 

[Lecic]

On a serious note if this is a server config option, this should be turned *OFF* by default, there is no benefits to having rail dockers on invincible shops that counter the simple fact that they are invincible, 99% hidden and remove the need to have a homebase or have territory

Most servers are not inverted FP servers. Newbies need a safe place to dock up. This is fine.

 

[Jasper1991]

Most servers are not inverted FP servers. Newbies need a safe place to dock up. This is fine.

A "safe place" should be a place that is actuary possible to find if you want to attack said newbie.

The negative effects of having these docks in invincible, hidden structures far outweigh the positives.

 

[kupu]

On a serious note if this is a server config option, this should be turned *OFF* by default, there is no benefits to having rail dockers on invincible shops

I believe this was added to help alleviate griefing and gave a new players an intermediary place to safely dock, without having to go from nothing to faction homebase in their first session of the game.

Considering "single player" uses the default server settings it should probably remain a default.
As already said, server admins have the tools required to remove this completely should they want to.

 

[KillaKrazy]

A "safe place" should be a place that is actuary possible to find if you want to attack said newbie.

The negative effects of having these docks in invincible, hidden structures far outweigh the positives.

You sound like one of those douches who only know how to pick on the players just starting out or unable to defend themselves. Go play Ark if you want to be able to attack other players bases 24/7.

 

[jayman38]

It looks to me like the benefits far, far outweigh the overpowered-ness. I definitely want this to stay.

However, since this seems to be designed primarily for new players, I would like to recommend a server-configurable (default to a rather large amount) mass limit for the shop docks. New players will tend to have relatively small, limited ships. I know it sounds like a step backwards towards the bounding-box-based docking with docking enhancers, but I think it's needed to keep massive capital ships or massive fleets from hiding at shops across the universe.

 

[Lukwan]

I can see the need for temporary protection at a shop for newbies and shoppers alike. What is called for is a mechanic to prevent permanent residence. Options:

-Make the shop-dock run on countdown timer or make it track log-on of docked player. The invulnerability could be set to wear off three minutes after every log-in ( and disallow re-docking) forcing you to find a different shop.

-Have all shop-docks metered, costing credits or faction points to maintain. Make the amount increase exponentially to avoid abuse by wealthy factions.

-In addition, make the shop broadcast it's location on the galactic map if anyone stays docked for more than two log-ins or two 'space-days'.

-Maintain mass-limits. No one needs to go shopping in their capitol-ships.

 

[Lecic]

I can see the need for temporary protection at a shop for newbies and shoppers alike. What is called for is a mechanic to prevent permanent residence. Options:

-Make the shop-dock run on countdown timer or make it track log-on of docked player. The invulnerability could be set to wear off three minutes after every log-in ( and disallow re-docking) forcing you to find a different shop.

-Have all shop-docks metered, costing credits or faction points to maintain. Make the amount increase exponentially to avoid abuse by wealthy factions.

-In addition, make the shop broadcast it's location on the galactic map if anyone stays docked for more than two log-ins or two 'space-days'.

-Maintain mass-limits. No one needs to go shopping in their capitol-ships.

I think all those others are completely unnecessary if there's a mass limit. A newbie shouldn't get punished for docking to a shop and logging out for a few days only to log in and discover that all their money is gone, their ship's been undocked and destroyed because it was broadcasted, and now someone's left a swarm of hostile drones behind to kill the newbie, who set their spawn at the shop, over and over.

 

[Gonzalo]

This is fine.

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