Shipyards and Build Mode

[Valiant70]

Rumor has it that the shipyard update may be coming with or shortly after the HP update. As such it seems appropriate to open a discussion about shipyards themselves and how they will affect the game.

So far, we know that shipyards will be a means of creating ships from blueprints and repairing damaged ships by restoring damaged and destroyed blocks. I fully expect them to be player-built structures like warp gates (although small ones may be available at NPC stations).

So now for my suggestion: Let shipyards take over not only the blueprint spawning mechanic, but build mode editing as well. Build mode has always felt like a computer program rather than actually building something, making it feel strange that it causes actual physical changes to ships and structures. Here's how I'd like this to go down (mixed with speculations into the planned system):

• Every ship stores a "blueprint" of itself in its core. This blueprint may be unique to the ship (created through the core's build mode) or loaded into the core from a catalog blueprint.
• When placed in a shipyard with the required materials, the shipyard makes the changes necessary to make the ship match the blueprint stored in its core.
• Blueprints may be created in any build block. Thus factions can create engineering labs on their bases by placing a number of build blocks around a room where shipwrights would work on new designs.

The effects of these changes: Build mode is treated as a CAD (Computer-Aided Design) program for ships and structures. It also eliminates in-flight and in-combat changes because the changes require a shipyard and a bit of time to take effect.

Now for other structures. Since you can't put a planet segment in a shipyard, another method is needed. The same method of using build mode to design and a machine to build makes sense here, too. The difference is the machine used to build. Rather than a shipyard building a mobile ship, a mobiles construction ship would build a station or a structure on a planet. (Don't forget to install antigrav (stop effect) or this will not end well!)

A construction ship would be a ship fitted with astrotech beams and carrying a large quantity of materials in storage containers. The process for building a planet base (or anything else) would be as follows:

• Land a scout ship and build a base camp by hand. A couple of power blocks and a build block should do.
• Use a build block to design the base on the planet's surface.
• Deploy construction ship and "shoot" the construction site with astrotech beams.

The beams would use reverse-hitscan (as suggested elsewhere) to make changes according to the blueprint stored within the structure being worked on.

Final note: "Set blueprint to current state" feature. This would set a ship or structure's internal blueprint to the current state of that object. e.g. The planet I mentioned above. A blank blueprint would cause the construction ship to eat the segment, so the blueprint must first load in the planet segment as-is, then define changes for the construction ship to make. The same goes for any ship built before the update and any ship that has had desirable modifications done by hand. The system I have described would be awkward without this feature.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

Wait, what HP system?

Also, what would build the construction ship?

 

[Valiant70]

Wait, what HP system?

Also, what would build the construction ship?

Chicken or egg? Answer: NPC chicken. If there's a small NPC shipyard at the spawn point, you can use it to build a small construction ship and use that to make a larger shipyard.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

Chicken or egg? Answer: NPC chicken. If there's a small NPC shipyard at the spawn point, you can use it to build a small construction ship and use that to make a larger shipyard.

ok cool but what HP system?

 

[Valiant70]

ok cool but what HP system?

The end result will be that ships are no longer killed by destroying the core but by destroying all or part of the ship's blocks. A ship has a set amount of HP and loses some of it when each block is destroyed. If you want to know more about it, talk to people on the dock chat or load the dev build and get on play.star-made.org:4242 (I think that's the correct IP anyway - it's the official dev build test server.)

 

[Krougal]

The end result will be that ships are no longer killed by destroying the core but by destroying all or part of the ship's blocks. A ship has a set amount of HP and loses some of it when each block is destroyed. If you want to know more about it, talk to people on the dock chat or load the dev build and get on play.star-made.org:4242 (I think that's the correct IP anyway - it's the official dev build test server.)

Val, are you speculating on the HP system still, or is it currently in dev?
I agree with all your suggestions, so long as there's enough NPC shipyards around to at least build small ships.

 

[Valiant70]

Val, are you speculating on the HP system still, or is it currently in dev?
I agree with all your suggestions, so long as there's enough NPC shipyards around to at least build small ships.

It's at least partly in the dev build. Go and see if you want. PM me if you have any more questions about that. This thread is about shipyards, not the HP system.
[DOUBLEPOST=1432487921,1432487827][/DOUBLEPOST]You could build a small ship by hand of course. Slap down a core, hop out, and start sticking blocks on it. You wouldn't be stranded if there were no shipyard. You could be marooned on a planet, mine stuff with a handheld beam, build factories, and get a ship into space with nothing.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

Or how about this:
In a shipyard, you can create a ship and is like the building system right now.
However, if you create a ship out of the blue, there will be a block limit and a delay, like, you need to wait 2 seconds to place another block.
I'd say the limit is 70 - 100.

And, one more thing, only specific blocks can be placed in an "out of the blue" ship.
I'd say the only blocks you can place is 10 thrusters, 10 *energy generation blocks, and the rest being hull blocks.

*just in case my suggestion on fuel worked out because of some miracle

 

[Valiant70]

Or how about this:
In a shipyard, you can create a ship and is like the building system right now.
However, if you create a ship out of the blue, there will be a block limit and a delay, like, you need to wait 2 seconds to place another block.
I'd say the limit is 70 - 100.

And, one more thing, only specific blocks can be placed in an "out of the blue" ship.
I'd say the only blocks you can place is 10 thrusters, 10 *energy generation blocks, and the rest being hull blocks.

*just in case my suggestion on fuel worked out because of some miracle

I'm not sure what the purpose of that would be since there would be a delay anyway, only this way it would be block by block. I'd rather build and edit my ship and then build it all at once in one shot. It'd save time that way.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

I'm not sure what the purpose of that would be since there would be a delay anyway, only this way it would be block by block. I'd rather build and edit my ship and then build it all at once in one shot. It'd save time that way.

Hold on, if you mean that you design the ship then build it in one shot, I think that will take more time.

 

[Valiant70]

Hold on, if you mean that you design the ship then build it in one shot, I think that will take more time.

If you design it all at once and make all the changes you need to be happy with it, the machine only has to build it once instead of building it and then changing it.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

If you design it all at once and make all the changes you need to be happy with it, the machine only has to build it once instead of building it and then changing it.

How long will it take for the machine to build it? Is it instantaneous?

 

[Viridis00]

I'd like to see ship build mode phased out, but if this is how the game is going to progress the default game will absolutely 100% need NPC shipyards that are available for use (make there be a credit fee to make credits more useful at the same time) for other players. There's no way that every player should need or be expected to have a shipyard to construct their ships. The ability to rent out player stations would be pretty nice too and give factions some side project to help keep themselves further occupied.

Also, addressing the reverse-hitscan method of building structures, I don't see how that's going to work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the idea I'm getting from your description. After the blueprint is designed, you'd be shooting at a shadow-copy (like the paste function, but static and set in place), but the problem there is for blocks behind blocks. You shoot that hitscan and assemble a block, but then you can't hit the block behind it or further inside (imagine you assmbled the walls but then you have an entire interior left).

I think we're going to need something simpler, like build blocks being used as a reference like the core, but they have an auto assembling function that builds from the bottom up in layers like a 3D printer from the blueprint you choose, just without the frame of a real 3D printer. Slap on a cool graphical effect beam that just points to each coordinate but looks like the hitscan and all of a sudden you've got a cool auto-assembling build block.

 

[AtraUnam]

If were doing something like this we need a separate game-mode that retains the current build-mode. If I want to build something purely creatively I don't want to have to first guess how big its going to be and then put together an appropriately sized shipyard; It would also make testing/refining unfinished designs a pain.

 

[Mr.Steam]

Blueprints may be created in any build block. Thus factions can create engineering labs on their bases by placing a number of build blocks around a room where shipwrights would work on new designs.

I see this as interacting with a build/CAD block where you enter a "virtual" space devoid of stars etc. where you can build with unlimited virtual resources. This would produce a blueprint that could be submitted to a shipyard with all the needed actual materials. Like previously mentioned the ship would be produced one chunk or layer at a time maybe expanding out from the center/core.

 

[Valiant70]

You shoot that hitscan and assemble a block, but then you can't hit the block behind it or further inside (imagine you assmbled the walls but then you have an entire interior left).

I said (and you said a moment ago) "reverse-hitscan" it would start at the back and work back toward the source of the beam.

If were doing something like this we need a separate game-mode that retains the current build-mode. If I want to build something purely creatively I don't want to have to first guess how big its going to be and then put together an appropriately sized shipyard; It would also make testing/refining unfinished designs a pain.

I would expect separate game modes for survival and sandbox. Plus, I would hope you could make your blueprints first, then build a shipyard big enough to manufacture them.
[DOUBLEPOST=1432496726,1432496663][/DOUBLEPOST]

I see this as interacting with a build/CAD block where you enter a "virtual" space devoid of stars etc. where you can build with unlimited virtual resources. This would produce a blueprint that could be submitted to a shipyard with all the needed actual materials. Like previously mentioned the ship would be produced one chunk or layer at a time maybe expanding out from the center/core.

That's exactly what I had in mind.

 

[Gamel]

I see this as interacting with a build/CAD block where you enter a "virtual" space devoid of stars etc. where you can build with unlimited virtual resources. This would produce a blueprint that could be submitted to a shipyard with all the needed actual materials. Like previously mentioned the ship would be produced one chunk or layer at a time maybe expanding out from the center/core.

This is way more clear than Valiant70 's original post
And this is a good idea!!

But i still want build mode like the way it is working now, but with restrictions
eg. we can now edit the build area as huge as we want, but with the thing Mr.Steam said
The build area for core base build mode will be restricted to 10x10x10
As a reasonable quick repair tool after battles, also more friendly for new players
who do not know anything about the "virtual" space and shipyard.

 

[Valiant70]

But i still want build mode like the way it is working now, but with restrictions
eg. we can now edit the build area as huge as we want, but with the thing Mr.Steam said
The build area for core base build mode will be restricted to 10x10x10
As a reasonable quick repair tool after battles, also more friendly for new players
who do not know anything about the "virtual" space and shipyard.

With something that small, I don't think you need build mode at all. You can build it by hand unless you're super lazy. That's newbie friendly.

Here's how I see the newbie learning curve:

1. Start game, assemble a ship by hand from starting inventory. This is very intuitive for former Minecraft players. ("Looks like reactors make power, thrusters make it go, salvage beams mine stuff... OK let's go."
2. Read wiki or talk to other players. Learn "Make BP, stick in shipyard, add materials, wait a minute, get a ship." Operate build mode without using special tools at first.
3. Discover advanced build mode and begin using advanced tools. Learn about more complicated systems like reactor formations.
4. Gradually get better at ship building and reach full potential by interacting with other players and getting advice.

 

[whooplaah]

I like Mr.Steam 's clarification about how you design the ship with unlimited resources, get a blue-print, then have the design constructed at a yard. It makes sense to construct a ship in a ship-yard and then fly it away when the ship is complete. Space stations don't fly, though, so how will that work?

One approach would be modular construction - you build many pieces of a ship/station then dock then together to get something larger than the ship-yard would be able to handle. I use a blueprint for the hangar, a blueprint for the cock-pit, and a blue-print for the med-bay and then dock these entities together to make a station (or large ship).

I see transports being used to move pieces of space station across the galaxy, but I still have to have something onto which I dock them to get a space station.


If the astronaut retains the ability to place a core into space and build on it by hand, then the progression towards a large ship-yard would be:

1) Place a station core/build block.
2) Build a ship-yard by hand with a maximum construction area of 5x5x5
3) Design a shipyard with a maximum construction area of 10x10x10.
4) Divide the design into 5x5x5 blueprints and save them (roughly 8 blue prints)
5) Construct a module from each of the blueprints (roughly 8 modules)
6) Dock the modules together to get a large shipyard.
7) Repeat to get a larger shipyard.

Alternatively, perhaps there are derelict/trader guild/pirate shipyards that can be commandeered. They might not be as big as the player likes, but it beats building by hand.

 

[lupoCani]

The beams would use reverse-hitscan (as suggested elsewhere) to make changes according to the blueprint stored within the structure being worked on.

By who? I believe I recall myself making this precise suggestion in chat a few days ago, is this related?