Ship Class and Pirate Wave Difficulty

[mrsinister]

I actually had this idea in my head recently

My solution was just simply assign factions ship folders in the star made folder and in each folder there would be 3 sub-folders named in tiers. each successive tier will have ships spawn more rarely then the last. I envisioned it working like this

Normal Directory(Tier 1)= Normal Spawn Rate- the game will spawn these all the time like they do now. A random amount will spawn per pirate raids
Tier 2= Uncommon Spawns- No more than 2-3 at a time and will often spawn along with groups of Tier 1 ships
Tier 3= Rare spawns- The game only Spawns these once in a great while and in groups of no more than 1-2. pirate raids will have 1 of these spawn
Tier 4= Boss spawns. The game keeps track of these and only spawns 1 at a time. At any given time there can't be more than 1 of them present in the universe. When one is destroyed the game will wait until it spawns another somewhere in the universe

Yup I agree, and I have a suggestion thread around here somewhere, where I suggested we have folders for Faction Ships....since we have them for stations, I figured, why not have them for the ships too! It would really help my server if/when they do that.

 

[NeonSturm]

I actually had this idea in my head recently

My solution was just simply assign factions ship folders in the star made folder and in each folder there would be 3 sub-folders named in tiers. each successive tier will have ships spawn more rarely then the last. I envisioned it working like this

Normal Directory(Tier 1)= Normal Spawn Rate- the game will spawn these all the time like they do now. A random amount will spawn per pirate raids
Tier 2= Uncommon Spawns- No more than 2-3 at a time and will often spawn along with groups of Tier 1 ships
Tier 3= Rare spawns- The game only Spawns these once in a great while and in groups of no more than 1-2. pirate raids will have 1 of these spawn
Tier 4= Boss spawns. The game keeps track of these and only spawns 1 at a time. At any given time there can't be more than 1 of them present in the universe. When one is destroyed the game will wait until it spawns another somewhere in the universe

I would not do tiers.

I would count dps, shield, evasion (=acceleration / size * reaction-time * fight distance / projectile-speed) and create an initial value

Optionally I would then track how effective it is compared to other ships in the same wave (vs only-shield or low damaged player-ships) for a fine-tuned value (will take some time), or simulate a fight between them (pirate hierachy)​

The game could mix high-rated ships of lower size with low-rated ships of larger size (pirate cargo ships) or have spawn-probability dependent on pirate-base health and level.

The pirate bases level could be measured in strength in ships/turret it spawns continuous and

• increase level over time (diminishing returns)
  
• increase it's max if destroyed while at max level
  
• decrease it's max for every player ship destroyed
• spawn ships dependent on level which patrol in sectors around it

 

[mrsinister]

I would not do tiers.

I would count dps, shield, evasion (=acceleration / size * reaction-time * fight distance / projectile-speed) and create an initial value

Optionally I would then track how effective it is compared to other ships in the same wave (vs only-shield or low damaged player-ships) for a fine-tuned value (will take some time), or simulate a fight between them (pirate hierachy)​

The game could mix high-rated ships of lower size with low-rated ships of larger size (pirate cargo ships) or have spawn-probability dependent on pirate-base health and level.

The pirate bases level could be measured in strength in ships/turret it spawns continuous and

• increase level over time (diminishing returns)
  
• increase it's max if destroyed while at max level
  
• decrease it's max for every player ship destroyed
• spawn ships dependent on level which patrol in sectors around it

I think this works too, and a combination of the 3 would be awesome. My faction ship folders then those tiers, like Special Mobs,Elites, Rare Elites, Universe Boss,.......and this interwoven.

 

[Zero_Sen]

As someone who's worked with the current pirate AI in terms of building something to be used by the pirates that scales against the ship sizes of the players, All I have to say is: The entire concept presented is flawed in one major aspect.

No one person will ever use the same classification system as another, down to the letter. It is this fact that gives us the "God given right to make up whatever the hell we want"and call it a day.

Now, while I agree that the current scaling is broken as well, I cannot agree to any of the suggestions posted here because they are just as broken as the current system, albeit in different ways.

Whooplaah's Method: While flexible, it's ultimate flaw is that players have the right to call any ship they build whatever they want and get away with it. I have seen battleships and titans that people have built exceed 100,000 mass and even 1,000,000 mass, and at the same time, I've seen people class ships with 500 mass in the same category.

Crimson-Arist's Method: the flaw in this system is non-uniformity of the pirates at varied sizes. You aren't going to find SSP and SMP servers that run the exact same pirates as each other, and you sure as hell aren't going to find multiple SMP servers using the same pirates either.

Case in point folks. Let the people build what they want and let them fight what they want. We have a sandbox game that is still in ALPHA STAGE DEVELOPMENT that will, without a doubt and without skipping a beat, constantly update. And one of the systems that WILL EVENTUAL UPDATE is the current AI Mechanics and with it, the Pirate Mechanics.

 

[mrsinister]

As someone who's worked with the current pirate AI in terms of building something to be used by the pirates that scales against the ship sizes of the players, All I have to say is: The entire concept presented is flawed in one major aspect.

No one person will ever use the same classification system as another, down to the letter. It is this fact that gives us the "God given right to make up whatever the hell we want"and call it a day.

Now, while I agree that the current scaling is broken as well, I cannot agree to any of the suggestions posted here because they are just as broken as the current system, albeit in different ways.

Whooplaah's Method: While flexible, it's ultimate flaw is that players have the right to call any ship they build whatever they want and get away with it. I have seen battleships and titans that people have built exceed 100,000 mass and even 1,000,000 mass, and at the same time, I've seen people class ships with 500 mass in the same category.

Crimson-Arist's Method: the flaw in this system is non-uniformity of the pirates at varied sizes. You aren't going to find SSP and SMP servers that run the exact same pirates as each other, and you sure as hell aren't going to find multiple SMP servers using the same pirates either.

Case in point folks. Let the people build what they want and let them fight what they want. We have a sandbox game that is still in ALPHA STAGE DEVELOPMENT that will, without a doubt and without skipping a beat, constantly update. And one of the systems that WILL EVENTUAL UPDATE is the current AI Mechanics and with it, the Pirate Mechanics.

All that needs to be done is,...... Give us the faction ship folders ,like we have for the stations, and all will rejoice.

 

[Mariux]

I like.
+1