Salvager Turrets and Plex Storage

[Aridhol]

So, I'm fairly sure this isn't a thing, but correct me if I am wrong...

Salvager AI turrets / drones do not work because they do not have an inventory to put the salvage into, fairly straight forward. But what if you could 'link' via the current standard method, some plex storage containers to the salvage computer, and it would automatically deposit their salvage into the containers!

This would make for a less obnoxious way of farming the little pirates that come and suicide against the defenses of your home station. You would still have to go regularly empty your salvagers storage boxes, because if they fill up they won't function anymore.

What do you guys think?

Bonus thought: Salvage cannons have a pretty short range at the moment, so this would need to be buffed so it could scale with cannon length perhaps, or you'd have to rely on drones to do your salvaging... On that note, drones need to be able to be supplied with a 'home beacon' of some sort, so that when they chase something and it gets a certain distance away, they return home.

 

[testkil]

true what we need to is repairing turrents or drones

 

[Aridhol]

Those in theory should be simpler.. should just need an AI upgrade for 'target members of my faction' for repair/recharge turrets/drones.

That would be handy, no doubt about it.

Slightly on topic question for those who just might know more than me.. can you make turrets with missile launchers, or only antimatter cannons at the moment? I'm assuming only antimatters, but I'm just assuming..

 

[rece ktore leczo]

As much as i like the idea of AI turrets and drones mining i'm also concerned about abuse of them. Why would anyone mine themselves if they can just build enormously big mining turrets and fly around taking with them every block? Or just send plenty of drones, go watch season 5 of Game of Thrones and come back with whole planet in their inventory.

There can be slides (like in weapon systems) where players could balance between range and speed of mining beams.

Aridhol

Missiles work in AI turrets. I'm not sure if they shoot as fast as possible, but i'm sure they're shooting

 

[Aridhol]

I do agree there should be some kind of limitations, it could be abused.. but much of this game has mechanics that can and very much are abused hehe. Turrets in general are overpowered, and Salvaging / mining isn't that great because you can just use a build block..

Something to think about though. I don't really think having auto mining cannons on your ship is a bad thing, but I also don't think auto shooting cannons are a bad thing, so, take it or leave it I guess. If we're going to have automation at all, why stop with just destructive forces? That's my stance

 

[MineCatFTW]

Auto-salvaging would be pretty awesome, but it could very easily become overpowered. But hey, right now you can make max credits without moving once, so the economy will need some serious work anyway.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

That's why there are (and were on the old forum) lots of threads about build block abuse and different solutions for that problem. Also factories are OP but they will also get changed.
I'm against implementing new mechanics, which would break economy even more. And the argument "hey, it's broken already" doesn't make sense, because economy would be balanced later in the development.

If we want new system/mechanism in game it'd be best if we make it balanced at the beginning.


There are many reasons for AI cannons, but for AI mining turrets i see only one reason - convenience (and/or laziness).

 

[MineCatFTW]

[QUOTE=" And the argument "hey, it's broken already" doesn't make sense, because economy would be balanced later in the development.

If we want new system/mechanism in game it'd be best if we make it balanced at the beginning.


[/QUOTE]
This. This exactly.

 

[Aridhol]

Fair enough thought process, though it'll largely depend on how the economy does end up being balanced as to whether or not automining would be too strong...

Regardless of this, Salvage cannons do need a range boost.. I don't wanna have to stick my nose right up to what I'm mining.. I mean, I don't mind it not having a massive range like huge AM cannons do, but something like 500 would be reasonable for salvaging large structures (would take a very sizable salvage cannon array..)

 

[Pahtriac]

Awnser could be very simple for the OP-Mining issue.

The current computers have a Infinite Awnser could be "Limited" amount of mining lasers per AI controlled mining turret

 

[Aridhol]

That's a fair idea I suppose, make them not be able to control as big of a salvager, and therefore would mine fairly slowly.. maybe. Still, on an always on server, even slow is still going to add up over time..

 

[NeonSturm]

You could build just more of them then.
We need to limit salvage drones per player.

I think economy should be limited by what players can pick up and collectables should be distant enough to make experienced players not have a very huge advantage over average players.
The game should focus on design skills and good use of resources instead.

And OFC different servers can setup resource-density differently (not just defaults).

 

[ltmauve]

Could be balanced by a) limiting the number of NPCs under the player/faction can control and/or b) making the AI unable to be a salvager drone and combat vessel, so if you park it in an asteroid belt and fly off, in about two days you know the drone would get blown up.

 

[Iskandar]

In EVE, automated mining turrets and drones were pretty handy, but still required the player to pay *some* attention hehe! :D The turrets were kinda slow, and the drones had a small storage capacity and had to make frequent runs to the mothership to drop off their haul. Neither would change targets automatically, so when an asteroid was mined out, they'd just go idle.

hmmm.. it might overcomplicate things, but an option could be to have a separate Mining AI block (Timmy!) that is "incompatible" with the standard AI, Bobby, causing any Bobby's attached to the ship (in weapons turrets or drones) to go offline while Timmy is operational. That would leave an AI mining ship vulnerable, requiring either a second player to stand watch in another ship or an attentive player in the mining ship who can run when attackers come. That was often how we did it in EVE, with the Hulks and Orcas being escorted by military ships.

 

[Sgtwisky]

If I recall properly this was also touched on in the last Q and A we had. One important note is that they plan to make stack limits. That alone would limit how effective AI turrets are. Also you cannot connect a system from a turret to the parent ship. That will limit the amount of storage on the turret further. If you also use the same ship for battle/travel then you need to shield that turret and your sacrificing DPS to use that mining turret to passively harvest materials. IF a player has such a huge ship that its not much of a sacrifice then I would say they likely spent a long time working up to that (assuming its being built in a balanced economy). I think much of the larger designs we have gotten use to may end up taking longer to fund and build.

Build block abuse was also talked about in the last Q and A. Shipyards were also talked about. So if we assume that the most effective way to generate materials is NOT to just by a 10x10x10 cube ship of the material or using build blocks then building custom salvage ships and salvage turrets could be very useful and not only be balanced but a crucial part of your day to day activities.

 

[NeonSturm]

IF a player has such a huge ship that its not much of a sacrifice then I would say they likely spent a long time working up to that (assuming its being built in a balanced economy).

I think it would be good balanced with a maximum number of materials before you have to spend time travelling (without planet eating mechanics).

• salvage efficiency = salvage time / (salvage + travel time):

• 10'000s = Minimal ship: 10'000s / (10'000s + 100s) = 99%
  
• 100s = Big ship: 100s / (100s + 100s) = 50%
  
• 1s = Huge ship: 1s / (1s + 100s) = 1%

The bigger your ship, the larger the Asteroids have to be for efficient mining (resources per salvage block).


If now players are able to scout for miners with a small perma-cloak/jam scout-ship and call allies dependent on the target size + track it's movement, you would rather risk losing a very efficient mining ship which returns investment very fast than to mine in your titan and suddenly be surrounded by destroyers before you "made cost".

"If now players are able to scout for miners" is not necessary, because there could also be Pirate factions which scout mineral-rich sectors and attach a scout to your ship's path if you stay there too long around an Asteroid.

 

[Bannta]

As much as i like the idea of AI turrets and drones mining i'm also concerned about abuse of them. Why would anyone mine themselves if they can just build enormously big mining turrets and fly around taking with them every block? Or just send plenty of drones, go watch season 5 of Game of Thrones and come back with whole planet in their inventory.

There can be slides (like in weapon systems) where players could balance between range and speed of mining beams.

Aridhol

Missiles work in AI turrets. I'm not sure if they shoot as fast as possible, but i'm sure they're shooting

Yes...I would suggest that the AI would only be able to savage build blocks(Hull, ac, computers, parts,etc...) and not terrian block(ore, dirt,etc..)

 

[therealstubot]

Personally, I like to build stuff. Mining is necessary, but boring. I also like exploration. Gimee an ai salvage turret that only mines one block per second, give me 100 of them. I can unleash them on a planet and it can take a month to work, but I don't have to be staring at a salvage beam the whole time. I can be thinking up of ways to "spend" all those resources in the meantime, and having fun. If you're concerned about balance, cut down on the number of space stations that we can salvage ( but definitely allow the salvage turret work on space stations, as well as planets and asteroids ) Or adopt a real market, so that at some point, once you've sold 2000 glass blocks, they become worthless. I play single player exclusively, but in multiplayer, there could be all sorts of mayhem hijacking mining bots or hacking them into bombs... Just my $0.02.

 

[psteiner]

So, I'm fairly sure this isn't a thing, but correct me if I am wrong...
Bonus thought: Salvage cannons have a pretty short range at the moment, so this would need to be buffed so it could scale with cannon length perhaps, or you'd have to rely on drones to do your salvaging... On that note, drones need to be able to be supplied with a 'home beacon' of some sort, so that when they chase something and it gets a certain distance away, they return home.

A while ago I was making a huge savager ship, it didn't work out cause I put the cannons all the way in the back. Relative range would be a lifesaver.

 

[Renainn]

So, I'm fairly sure this isn't a thing, but correct me if I am wrong...

Salvager AI turrets / drones do not work because they do not have an inventory to put the salvage into, fairly straight forward. But what if you could 'link' via the current standard method, some plex storage containers to the salvage computer, and it would automatically deposit their salvage into the containers!

This would make for a less obnoxious way of farming the little pirates that come and suicide against the defenses of your home station. You would still have to go regularly empty your salvagers storage boxes, because if they fill up they won't function anymore.

What do you guys think?

Bonus thought: Salvage cannons have a pretty short range at the moment, so this would need to be buffed so it could scale with cannon length perhaps, or you'd have to rely on drones to do your salvaging... On that note, drones need to be able to be supplied with a 'home beacon' of some sort, so that when they chase something and it gets a certain distance away, they return home.

I would like to see a way to make a salvage system that can be placed in a turret and have the AI control that turret. Yes you would still have to pilot your ship to the planet or asteroid but then if you made a ship with multiple salvage turrets, you could reduce time . I made a ship that has a turret, but I have to get in it to control it.

Thanks,
Renainn