Salvage Beams - Completely Broken?

[Proxima_Centauri]

Ever since the salvage beams were changed (one of the few aspects of the game that still worked properly) they have been utterly broken and essentially useless.
This is especially problematic considering the new resource based economy implementation.

Problems:
-require too much power
-cause tons of lag (due to super long range compared to before)
-don't salvage in an even pattern anymore (see pic)
-salvage too slowly
-no longer noob-friendly

This Salvager

Creates this pattern

What is that all about?

Are there plans by the devs to fix this problem in the near future? (considering that it is breaking gameplay for all our new steam friends)
Mining may be a boring grind, but it's better than not even being able to mine :\

 

[MrFURB]

Heyyo, let me add some numbers here for you folks to discuss.

Currently a single salvage module will take 40 power a second for a burst of 2.5 seconds and salvage 1.1 blocks per burst. Each burst in total takes 100 power. To hit 1 million energy/sec in salvage use you would need 25,000 salvage modules.

While the length of beam graphics has little to do with framerate drops, the number of beams as well as stress from mass salvage calculations does.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

Currently a single salvage module will take 40 power a second for a burst of 2.5 seconds and salvage 1.1 blocks per burst. Each burst in total takes 100 power. To hit 1 million energy/sec in salvage use you would need 25,000 salvage modules.

That would be true if it was a single 25,000-block salvage cannon
However, grouping effects still apply, making the power requirements much MUCH greater, and nobody in their right mind would have a salvager with only 1 beam...

 

[ToyotaSupra]

Power isn't really a problem once you learn efficient balance with your power systems. It used to be that a good filler block were shields, and now power blocks are a better idea.

The alignments thing pisses me off, it worked so well and when you pointed a block it shot out of that block! Not a random one! Why did they change it? Hope it's a bug...

The lag thing is also unacceptable, I'm sure it's a series of incidences and not just one thing. Hope it gets balanced soon, I know they're busy but the economy in game can't run without mining...

 

[Lidren]

Problems:
-require too much power
-cause tons of lag (due to super long range compared to before)
-don't salvage in an even pattern anymore (see pic)
-salvage too slowly
-no longer noob-friendly

I definitely agree that some changes and tweaks are in order, and for some of the same reasons. Let me respond to some points though.

I do not believe the power calculations are off at all. You just need a single decent sized capacitor array and an efficient power design. By mass I'm pretty sure the salvage array will weigh more.

They do cause lag, but it is not the range that does it. The more salvage tubes in operation, the more calcs it has to deal with. A whole set of calcs for each beam, each tick.

The salvage damage and how it seems to work did bork up those nice even swaths we used to cut.

Too slow? It has slowed a little, but you can increase it by increasing your tube length. I have not seen problems chewing up planets at 1 an hour.

Finally, I very very much agree with your last point. I think the default module should be low power but constant. Resourcing should be easy to get into but hard to master. The cool down is terrible and some people think it's a bug.

 

[Malacodor]

Currently a single salvage module will take 40 power a second for a burst of 2.5 seconds and salvage 1.1 blocks per burst. Each burst in total takes 100 power. To hit 1 million energy/sec in salvage use you would need 25,000 salvage modules.

40 power per seconds seems correct, however, one burst consumes ~130 power and takes ~3.25 s.

 

[MrFURB]

40 power per seconds seems correct, however, one burst consumes ~130 power and takes ~3.25 s.

Huh. Are you sure that you're testing on a vanilla config without any timescale/tickrate differences or pulse slaves?

Here's the vanilla config values for example:

<TickRate>0.025</TickRate> <!-- tick time in seconds, beam must remain on target entity or this timer resets -->

<SalvageDamageNeededPerBlock>200</SalvageDamageNeededPerBlock> <!-- 0 will salvage on tick, otherwise the damage has to be met on the object to salvage one block -->

<SalvageDamagePerHit>2</SalvageDamagePerHit> <!-- salvage damage done per tick to fill up SalvageDamageNeededPerBlock -->

<PowerConsumption>40</PowerConsumption>

<Distance>0.12</Distance> <!-- 1 is equal to 100% sector radius --> <!-- timeBetweenHits = 1 / (unitSize^pow)*mult -->

<CoolDown>5</CoolDown> <!-- Time it takes to fire beam again from the start-time it first activated -->

<BurstTime>2.5</BurstTime> <!-- Time the beam will fire -->

<InitialTicks>10</InitialTicks> <!-- Ticks to do at the initial contact of beam with a block -->

 

[Malacodor]

Huh. Are you sure that you're testing on a vanilla config without any timescale/tickrate differences or pulse slaves?

Here's the vanilla config values for example:

<TickRate>0.025</TickRate> <!-- tick time in seconds, beam must remain on target entity or this timer resets -->

<SalvageDamageNeededPerBlock>200</SalvageDamageNeededPerBlock> <!-- 0 will salvage on tick, otherwise the damage has to be met on the object to salvage one block -->

<SalvageDamagePerHit>2</SalvageDamagePerHit> <!-- salvage damage done per tick to fill up SalvageDamageNeededPerBlock -->

<PowerConsumption>40</PowerConsumption>

<Distance>0.12</Distance> <!-- 1 is equal to 100% sector radius --> <!-- timeBetweenHits = 1 / (unitSize^pow)*mult -->

<CoolDown>5</CoolDown> <!-- Time it takes to fire beam again from the start-time it first activated -->

<BurstTime>2.5</BurstTime> <!-- Time the beam will fire -->

<InitialTicks>10</InitialTicks> <!-- Ticks to do at the initial contact of beam with a block -->

I tested it with v0.1867, one salvage beam block, no slave, fully charged core, reactors removed, all values are identical to yours. Energy consumption is ~130 and burst length is definitely longer than 3s.

 

[aceface]

Ever since the salvage beams were changed (one of the few aspects of the game that still worked properly) they have been utterly broken and essentially useless.
This is especially problematic considering the new resource based economy implementation.

Problems:
-require too much power
-cause tons of lag (due to super long range compared to before)
-don't salvage in an even pattern anymore (see pic)
-salvage too slowly
-no longer noob-friendly

This Salvager

Creates this pattern

What is that all about?

Are there plans by the devs to fix this problem in the near future? (considering that it is breaking gameplay for all our new steam friends)
Mining may be a boring grind, but it's better than not even being able to mine :\

i am really concerned about the lag produced from them. it isn't the beams, because if i disable beams (they become invisible) it still lags like crazy. salvage beams need to work in a new way that doesn't cause so much frikken lag, but at the same time be able to remove lots of blocks when big enough.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

The biggest problem here is people are comparing the old system they are used to to the new system.

Takes to much power? Well before it took to little power and was unbalanced/ way to easy to create planet eating ships
Eats to slowly? Add longer arrays
Don't like that it salvages in bursts? Add a cannon slave to it.
Not noob friendly? Are you a noob? Experienced players are poor judges of what is and is not noob friendly. If anybody too stubborn to forget what they know about the old system and learn the new ins and outs that doesn't make it harder to learn for new players. If anything it's now more in line with other systems in the game, if you understand the weapon master/slave system then you can easily comprehend the salvage system.

The only two real issues here are the lag and inconsistent mining. I have noticed two beams hitting two blocks, the first beam chews right through and the second beam just sits there. After a delay the second beam will chew up like 5 blocks at once. Both of these issues are probably caused by some hang up in the calculations.

 

[Jananton]

The only two real issues here are the lag and inconsistent mining....

I did notice this too and I feel that's something where needs to be looked into. At the moment I'm still mining by hand (single-player, no cheats) to get to greater and bigger things, so this behavior isn't a problem yet, but if one wants to automate the mining process I can see problems arise with this non constant breaking / mining of blocks...

Greets,

Jan