RP vs PVP = False

[Crashmaster]

1) I didn't say it was the best answer, I just said it was the simplest.

2) The kind or protection I want to see is defensive. If someone is going out of their area and into yours, they are provoking and deserve whatever retaliation you throw at them.

Ok, sorry, as it was written I interpreted your answer as the pilot would have real-time control of his protection and switching it off upon entering foreign space would be done on the honor system.

A problem with the second point is that when a large portion of the galactic center is claimed late-game there will be no safe systems surrounding spawn. How to balance noob protection and free passage against territorial security?

 

[Edymnion]

if you could provide an example, itd likely be a whopping 1 poster out of the entire community. yet you push your agenda using these claims.

I've got a thread going right now about it, actually.

I tried to stay middle ground on it.

So far the replies are pretty much victim shaming "they didn't try hard enough to not get blown up" and vague "Well let the server admin decide".

So far no one has offered any actual suggestions or brainstorming ideas on how to cooperate or coexist.

 

[kulbolen]

So far the replies are pretty much victim shaming "they didn't try hard enough to not get blown up" and vague "Well let the server admin decide".

im in that thread as well and i dont see what youre claiming... i wonder why you dont use actual qoutes when you make claims of what people say and do?

let the server admin decide isnt vague. what does it take to get you to understand that you dont choose how a server runs, its owner does?

So far no one has offered any actual suggestions or brainstorming ideas on how to cooperate or coexist.

you are literally the only person in all of starmade that ive seen making claims that pvpers want to eradicate everyone else from the game and cant coexist, while simultaneously saying you want to eradicate all non friendly pvp. lol

 

[Crashmaster]

So far no one has offered any actual suggestions or brainstorming ideas on how to cooperate or coexist.

I suggested you could start a peace-keeping faction to help protect new players. Though I know from previous threads you cannot stand the idea of having to trust someone to let them into your faction.

 

[Edymnion]

im in that thread as well and i dont see what youre claiming... i wonder why you dont use actual qoutes when you make claims of what people say and do?

There is this one thing anyone can do to prevent pvp. Build your base or park your ship outside the main galaxy when you leave, and never homebase. The chance of someone finding you and being able to destroy is so slim that it's hilarious.

What part of "run and hide so they can't get you" doesn't sound like "Well its your fault they blew you up because you didn't hide well enough" to you?

New players should not have to run and hide just so they can play the game.

let the server admin decide isnt vague. what does it take to get you to understand that you dont choose how a server runs, its owner does?

Yeah it is. Its admitting that the problems exist, and then just shifting the blame.

I suggested you could start a peace-keeping faction to help protect new players. Though I know from previous threads you cannot stand the idea of having to trust someone to let them into your faction.

No, I don't. It shouldn't require vigilante justice just to keep basic play safe.

 

[Crashmaster]

No, I don't. It shouldn't require vigilante justice just to keep basic play safe.

Basic play should not require safety.

 

[kulbolen]

What part of "run and hide so they can't get you" doesn't sound like "Well its your fault they blew you up because you didn't hide well enough" to you?

literally every word of it. youre perceiving their comment as blame when its likely advice. it could be either, but youre the only one claiming the worst.

Yeah it is. Its admitting that the problems exist, and then just shifting the blame.

again, youve just made something up entirely? its only a problem in your OPINION. using your own examples, a gm in wow or any other mmo, and a server admin in any other small time independent server game would determine if a report was credible.

 

[Edymnion]

lagain, youve just made something up entirely? its only a problem in your OPINION.

And?

How is that any different from your opinion that its fine as it is?

 

[kulbolen]

How is that any different from your opinion that its fine as it is?

its simple. youre the one arguing for changes, and applying your opinion to others thought processes. you may believe a problem exists, but the server admin may not. who are you to take choice away from them? im not the one trying to challenge something. you need to come up with some better foundation other than your singular opinion.

 

[Edymnion]

its simple. youre the one arguing for changes, and applying your opinion to others thought processes. you may believe a problem exists, but the server admin may not. who are you to take choice away from them? im not the one trying to challenge something. you need to come up with some better foundation other than your singular opinion.

My singular opinion is the only one I have to speak for.

You're choosing to speak for a lot of other people yourself.

 

[Crashmaster]

And?

How is that any different from your opinion that its fine as it is?

I see the main difference is that you state you do not play on servers that even mention PvP and have held this stance for as long as I can remember seeing your posts, and yet claim to have an understanding of what goes on in PvP-allowed servers.

That was why I asked, elsewhere I think, when it was you had seen trollsquads of two dozen people coming on a server. One dozen of any type of player on a server is rare these days.

 

[kulbolen]

You're choosing to speak for a lot of other people yourself.

"let the server admin decide" != "speaking for them"

anyway, until you can return to providing tenuous points to debate, were done. have fun failing your wordgames.

 

[Edymnion]

I see the main difference is that you state you do not play on servers that even mention PvP and have held this stance for as long as I can remember seeing your posts, and yet claim to have an understanding of what goes on in PvP-allowed servers.

Doesn't mean I don't go searching and thinking "Oh, well maybe this one won't be so bad" whenever the rare PvE server goes down and I need to find a new one. I've learned from experience not to waste my time with PvP servers.

I'm currently on a build server, which I don't particularly like, simply because it means I'm immune to anything anyone can do. Somebody blows my stuff up, I can just respawn it via admin command.

 

[KaRe]

What part of "run and hide so they can't get you" doesn't sound like "Well its your fault they blew you up because you didn't hide well enough" to you?

New players should not have to run and hide just so they can play the game.Yeah it is. Its admitting that the problems exist, and then just shifting the blame.
No, I don't. It shouldn't require vigilante justice just to keep basic play safe.

I think it's more like, it's your fault that you didn't build up your base strong enough instead of focusing on hiding and mining. Either way, if you're looking to find protection for newbies in survival, there already is. There's homebases, admin set protection zones, spawn, and anywhere not close to a homebase, pirate station, or wormholes that one can hide in. Survival means only those who have the ability, persistence, and/or knowledge will be able to survive. And that's how it should be. I'm not entirely opposed to a more refined version of these ideas being used in a different game mode, however.

 

[Lecic]

If not, why do you assume that everyone else on a server would use it? If PvP'ers enjoy the danger and the threat, wouldn't all of them turn it off immediately?

Lmao, what? Plenty of PvP players play for victory, not for "fair and balanced" combat, and would certainly have the anti-PvP flag enabled whenever they weren't attacking someone who will lose.

The way out for booth of you, would have been to first ask Lecic what actual suggestions Lecic means that would make open world pvp impossible? You booth are talking in a slight theoretical way by not clarifying this.

I am specifically referring to Edy's suggestion to allow players to opt out of PvP, which should have been obvious given that I was quoting and speaking to him.

Simplest answer would be "turn it off when you're in someone else's claimed space".

1. Surround person's territory in your own claimed space full of murder stations
2. They cannot leave because they will become unprotected
3. Core systems are almost entirely claimed within a few weeks, so new players aren't even protected, which was one of your main complaints

 

[Comradecolonel]

If you don't want people to bother you, play offline. I don't understand the point of this PvP vs RP argument. In fact I don't really think that's even where the true divide is. The two are not mutually exclusive, as you can easily RP while you PvP. RP in this sense seems to mean players who only want cursory knowledge of the mechanics, and have the rest filled in by their imagination. PvP is being used to describe a player who uses the mechanics exactly as they are, regardless of how they're intended. Those two playstyles seems pretty mutually exclusive and that is how I feel both sides are presenting themselves.

Also the flaming of each other is not helping at all. Neither is judging people before you've even really heard their argument. Even worse is putting someone in a category of opinions just based on their stance on one issue. We need to be more level-headed otherwise conversation will eventually cease.

 

[JinM]

I am specifically referring to Edy's suggestion to allow players to opt out of PvP, which should have been obvious given that I was quoting and speaking to him.

I am a dumbass maybe, but I really don't find the post where Edy says players should be allowed to opt out of pvp.

You, Lecic, quoted "Well in all due fairness, the RP builders don't actively prevent the PvP players from existing. The same cannot always be said about the other way around.

I've yet to see a bunch of RP builders gang up on a PvP player and force them to build a kitchenette. I have seen PvP players gang up on RP players and force them off servers by blowing up everything that wasn't docked 24/7." from Edy.

And before that Edy wrote about what the definition of pvp is. I just don't find where he suggested it. Are you reffering to the "the litte guy's protection" topic? (I didn't read that.)

 

[Lecic]

Are you reffering to the "the litte guy's protection" topic?

I was referring to his "peace flag" suggestion, yes.

 

[Ithirahad]

i can disagree to protection for anyone because i think the universe should be dangerous

I agree to an extent, but then the question becomes, how dangerous? I honestly don't like homebase invulnerability as a mechanic, and making even more things utterly invulnerable would only make matters worse... but if we want to make the universe (more) dangerous, we have to counterbalance from either one end (cost of assets - see EvE Online where obtaining new ships of usable size is relatively easy, if annoying at times) or the other (ease of defence - currently all non-homebase things are not only vulnerable but practically made of tissue paper if not being actively defended) otherwise you get a frustrating game that nobody but masochists and the occasional sadist with no life would ever want to play. I think this is the condition that makes a lot of players shy away from the idea of a dangerous universe, not the fundamental idea itself. If you play StarMade for long enough, you tend to think of everything in terms of the current balance with only the direct subject at hand being changed. :P

 

[kulbolen]

I agree to an extent, but then the question becomes, how dangerous?

totally understandable. my opinion here is of course that server admins should dictate the answer to that, and decide the balance you described for themselves.