Remove Stabilizers

[Lecic]

Stabilizers are an unnecessary mechanic that only exists to force empty space in ships, something that would be much better suited for interior requiring crew. The power system can function perfectly fine without them, and they add nothing positive to the game. They encourage people to build ugly designs like island and dumbbell ships while adding nothing fun or interesting to ship design.

Are stabilizers actually a necessary mechanic? I say no, remove them.

 

[FlyingDebris]

Agreed. Stabilizers are a useless mechanic.

 

[GDPR 302420]

Stabilizers are an unnecessary mechanic that only exists to force empty space in ships, something that would be much better suited for interior requiring crew. The power system can function perfectly fine without them, and they add nothing positive to the game. They encourage people to build ugly designs like island and dumbbell ships while adding nothing fun or interesting to ship design.

Are stabilizers actually a necessary mechanic? I say no, remove them.

+1

Stabilizers do nothing but force a useless requirement.

I thought System 2.0 was to remove forced design choices, but all it has done is changed them.

 

[Criss]

Dumbbell and island ship designs are new to me. When did this happen and what are they?

 

[Lecic]

Dumbbell and island ship designs are new to me. When did this happen and what are they?

DUMBELLS: Stabilizers force you to have empty space, but this assumes you build a normal looking ship. So instead you build your stabilizers in a ball at the front and your reactor in a ball at the rear, and you put your systems in a tube between them with no empty space, because why would you want to do that?

ISLANDS: Same thing as dumbells but with all of the systems in their own floating balls instead of in a long tube between the reactor ones. Less like Spaghetti and more like Meatballs. Immune to the current anti-spaghetti attempts.

NEW TO YOU: Welcome to the present, maybe pay attention to what your players have been talking and mocking about for well over a month in the future. It's not as if we haven't talked about this with you guys in chat and warned you about this in the dev blog threads.

WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN: When you (Schine) ignored us when we told you forcing people to have empty space in their ship with heatboxes was stupid and that people would find ways around it, and made stabilizers in 2.0 try and accomplish the same "forced empty space" idea.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

Dumbbell and island ship designs are new to me. When did this happen and what are they?

Whats bad is that I'm a RP builder and it only took a few minutes of playing the first dev builds to see the problem with stabilizers. I mean if schema is really dead set on keeping them in the game at least remove the minimum space required to maximize stabilization.

 

[Kelpaz]

The stabilizer mechanics must be removed they do nothing but force designs in very specific directions I even challanged myself to refit Criss own Trade factions frigate and even after downsizing all systems I got this:

As for Islands this is a way of building I never seen done on my server or uploaded, but since schema made it possible to make separate shields I can now present you the Geometric destroyer, behold:

I built this for the sole reason to demonstrate a broken system, the stabilizer distance forces distance separate shields means that splitting up a ship isn't a big deal since you will deal damage to only one shield group, the old shield would work better here since hitting any of them wouldn't matter.

The new changes that were meant to prevent "broken meta" actually is what encourages new meta and I'm not afraid to share it now before it's too late.

I do like the chamber mechanics, turret remote control and repulsors. I could live with shield bubbles (not really) but please, consider removing stabilizers, reactors already require many parts to work.

 

[Criss]

Welcome to the present, maybe pay attention to what your players have been talking and mocking about for well over a month in the future.

My area of expertise is not development on the game. I am here to build assets and livestream and manage the content on social media. I don't need to be told "you should have heard about it the moment we complained about it"

What changed to create this new meta? Before it was spaghetti. Now it's dumbbell. If this is due to the changes in the pre-release build, then I certainly would not have heard about it before Sunday, when that was posted.

I can bring this up with Lancake and Schema however, and ask them if there are specific reasons why stabilizers have minimum space limits still.

 

[Valiant70]

Stabilizers completely failed to do what they were meant to do. Take them out and try something else.

 

[Criss]

Stabilizers completely failed to do what they were meant to do. Take them out and try something else.

I can't bring that sentence to Schema and expect things to change. I need specifics. I want the same things you guys want. Freedom to choose a design that isn't outmatched by a single-meta-approach to building.

 

[Valiant70]

Before it was spaghetti. Now it's dumbbell.

Dumbbells came first. Spaghetti took the spotlight when it was discovered because it's even more overpowered.

Spaghetti was nerfed by structural integrity, but probably not enough. You can still do 2x2 strands.

The new shields were supposed to nerf island builds by requiring them to have separate shields, but arguably the ability to have separate shields just made them stronger since the increased power requirement is offset by their unlimited stabilizer distance.

I can't bring that sentence to Schema and expect things to change. I need specifics. I want the same things you guys want. Freedom to choose a design that isn't outmatched by a single-meta-approach to building.

Stabilizers were supposed to leave room for emtpy space inside ships, but that didn't work. People just did dumbbells because they're lighter than a large empty tube. We need a way to encourage projecting structures like nacelles, "warp rings," fins, towers, etc. without forcing them. The advantage these structures provide really only needs to make up for the added mass from the armor it takes to cover them. That will allow creative freedom either to have protruding structures, or not to have them.

EDIT: Just as an added thought, it might be good if the protruding structures offered a slight advantage over lack of them. This would encourage more interesting shapes rather than big blocks.

 

[Zoolimar]

All ships look more or less like this. Even after filling the insides of the tube it still should have some space left. So it will look more like a couple of blobs connected by strings. Forward stabilisers, back reactors, shields in the middle.

 

[Neon_42]

I agree that interiors are a good thing that needs to be left to crews. The purpose of empty space in all spaceships is for storage or for people to move around in. I don't see NASA launching spacecraft with space to spare. All their probes are full to bursting with instruments. That being said I like the way power is used now. Compared to the old system I feel it is easier to engineer a ship.

 

[Kelpaz]

I agree that empty space is a good thing that needs to be left to crews. The purpose of empty space in all spaceships is for storage or for people to move around in. I don't see NASA launching spacecraft with space to spare. All their probes are full to bursting with instruments. That being said I like the way power is used now. Compared to the old system I feel it is easier to engineer a ship.

My ships already have their interiors I don't need more of it also I can't make my smaller vessels work because I'm forced to add distance.
A good example is my "space mech" that has very small dimensions, the weapons "upkeep" alone takes more power than it can support

 

[Neon_42]

My ships already have their interiors I don't need more of it also I can't make my smaller vessels work because I'm forced to add distance.

What the hell are you talking about? You have interiors already(mostly empty space, hallways, engine room, med bay, sleeping quarters, etc). Good that is the point. That space should be utilized by crews. The stabilizers force you to have more space or into some ridiculous island or dumbbell build. Small ships should not need crews, fighters and the like, but anything bigger would need people power. A turret requires a gunner, an engine (above some size) requires an engineer , etc. I have no idea what you're talking about needing more interiors, and as someone who has built satellite packages I can guarantee you there is zero wasted space on a spacecraft.

 

[GDPR 302420]

I need specifics. I want the same things you guys want. Freedom to choose a design that isn't outmatched by a single-meta-approach to building.

I think remove stabilizers is specific enough.

Also, meta by its definition is a single design that outmatches all others, just thought I would point that out.

Most Effective Tactic Avaliable for reference.

 

[Valiant70]

Most Effective Tactic Avaliable for reference.

That's exactly what "reactor in back, stabilizers in front" is. The Most Effective Tactic Available. Putting the systems in the middle or at the ends is up to the designer.

 

[GDPR 302420]

That's exactly what "reactor in back, stabilizers in front" is. The Most Effective Tactic Available. Putting the systems in the middle or at the ends is up to the designer.

For power maybe, but for overall ship preformance not so much.

 

[NaStral]

Why did they even bother with these stabilizers? Something more interesting like requiring coolant, shielding for volatility control, power routing systems among others. Why not make it more like how a real nuclear reactor is created? The whole thing seems bland and uninteresting on top of the frustrating factors that have already been covered in detail.

 

[Koloss_Meshuggah]

I can bring this up with Lancake and Schema however, and ask them if there are specific reasons why stabilizers have minimum space limits still.

If you are able to talk to the devs, bring up this thread: https://starmadedock.net/threads/additive-stabilizer-distance-the-simple-solution.29977/#post-358275

It pretty much fixes dumbbell ships by eliminating the one-dimension requirement.