Remote Drone Control

[terra mining corp.]

Maybe physical damage points to player with drones destroyed a kind of feedback from neural controls until character dies?

 

[TheGT]

Maybe physical damage points to player with drones destroyed a kind of feedback from neural controls until character dies?

This would probably mean that every time you switched drones, you would stop off at a healing station. Not in any way a bad penalty. Giving ships a transmission radius based on some module would give much more interesting battles. It's like the difference between playing Elite Dangerous, and Actually sitting in a cobra mkIII and shooting at the baddies, there is a lot more danger when your life is at risk. In starmade, I don't want a double disconnect where I'm disconnected because I'm sitting at a computer in real life, and then double disconnected from sitting at a computer in the game too. Sitting at a computer in a ship on the front lines is a lot less worse, because I know that if I don't protect the carrier, I'll be back at homebase going "GAHHH." As opposed to being back at homebase going "sigh, I guess I'll need to launch another fighter."

(of course this should be config option, server admins generally know what they want to do with their server)

 

[Malacodor]

Because then there would never be a reason to actually pilot a ship yourself. As an admin for a PvP server, I would really hate how this would limit and detract from the investment a player has in whether they succeed or not in a battle. Part of what makes combat fun is the risk of death. For drones to be viable on a survival PVP server, the risk of death needs to be maintained (as in, that player must be reachable by the person they are attacking and possibly killed). For this feature to add something to the game, it should create more viable options, with their own set of pros and cons, not eliminate existing ones as untenable.

Risk of death? What do you lose on death (aside from FP)? Whatever a player can drop when dying, they can simply leave it in the homebase. The only thing a player death does, is taking them out of combat, making them spend valuable lifetime to get back, so they can go on with actually playing the game. Effectively players are punished for playing the game by locking them out of the game. Such a mechanic is necessary in games where you respawn with everything you had when dying, but in StarMade you don't respawn with your ship. Losing ships is punishing, dying is just annoying.

I'm not against a range limit in general, but if remote control is implemented, it should have a server setting for range, which also allows for it to be set to unlimited.

 

[Benevolent27]

Risk of death? What do you lose on death (aside from FP)? Whatever a player can drop when dying, they can simply leave it in the homebase. The only thing a player death does, is taking them out of combat, making them spend valuable lifetime to get back, so they can go on with actually playing the game. Effectively players are punished for playing the game by locking them out of the game. Such a mechanic is necessary in games where you respawn with everything you had when dying, but in StarMade you don't respawn with your ship. Losing ships is punishing, dying is just annoying.

I'm not against a range limit in general, but if remote control is implemented, it should have a server setting for range, which also allows for it to be set to unlimited.

When a player spawns back at their spawnpoint, it takes away the tactical advantage of being at the enemy's gates. Why is this "punishing the player for playing the game"? That player died and was taken out of the fight. Now they have to try and rush to get back into the fight or if they want to try and salvage what is left of their ship. Or just get revenge.

But I do agree with a range, hence why I said "...the admins for the server [could] change a server setting to allow it)." If one server wants people to be able to have war games from their home bases, that's fine. But on the type of server I run, a survival PVP server, immersion is very important. We want people who die to be knocked out of the fight. We want the rush to get back into the fight. We do not want people piloting 4 block warhead ships as drones, with no possible consequence or possible harm to their astronaut body, and constantly grief other players.

However, I do think it would add a lot of fun gameplay if players could pilot a carrier, then switch to their drones. They would still face the spectre of death if the mothership is brought down. I also think it would be a lot of fun for people to be able to do drone strikes from a few sectors away, but the spectre of death would still be there, because the people they are attacking might retaliate and kill them while they are busy in a drone.

But about you saying "games where you respawn with everything." By default, players do not drop items on death. They only drop 10% of their credits and lose a tiny amount of faction points. It's up to the player or server admins to set the penalty for death if they want it to be greater. On my server we have a much higher faction point loss, items drop, but only 10% of credits drop. We also have a wrapper that allows players to deposit their credits to a virtual bank account at any time, so a smart player only loses their tactical advantage (and possibly their ship) on our server if they are smart before going into combat.

 

[Malacodor]

Now they have to try and rush to get back into the fight or if they want to try and salvage what is left of their ship.

Even if ships could be controlled from the homebase, stopping the overheating would still require the player being physically present.

We do not want people piloting 4 block warhead ships as drones, with no possible consequence or possible harm to their astronaut body, and constantly grief other players.

Warheads might be a problem, it's good you brought this up. The AI needs a "shoot warheads, even if neutral" option anyways, so this should be implemented before remote controls.

 

[TheGT]

Say NO to DDD!
(Double Disconnect Disorder)

 

[Edymnion]

While I'm all for a range limit to make sure that the players are actually in range of being attacked directly (say within the same sector or two), I disagree on the entire concept of "Never wanting to fly a normal ship again".

We are ALREADY at the point no one wants to fly a "normal" ship if they can help it. People generally skip fighters entirely in favor of going straight to cruisers and battleships while hiding in a faction home base until they can get said ship up and operational. At which point if a fighter is ever used at all, it is as a drone which they aren't piloting at all.

The "threat" posed by this isn't really a threat, its the current status quo.

Actually, scratch that, the "threat" is actually still BETTER than the status quo, as while neither scenario sees human players personally manning fighters, at least this would mean that fighters are still getting USED.

 

[Malacodor]

While I'm all for a range limit to make sure that the players are actually in range of being attacked directly (say within the same sector or two)

I'd try to avoid to make the range dependent on sectors. Players shouldn't be kicked out of their ships just because the carrier accidentally crossed a nearby sector border. Also, players in remote controlled ships should have a display that shows their distance to their physical position as a percentage of the maximum distance, so they don't get kicked out of their ships by surprise.

 

[Benevolent27]

Even if ships could be controlled from the homebase, stopping the overheating would still require the player being physically present.


Warheads might be a problem, it's good you brought this up. The AI needs a "shoot warheads, even if neutral" option anyways, so this should be implemented before remote controls.

I would say that remote controlling a ship should ONLY be possible through the fleet system and ONLY if in range of the ship the player is desiring to control. (Though I would also like to see the fleet system have a better permission system built in, to allow faction members to control the same fleet)

But even without warheads, I still think the risk of death adds something to combat. It is true that piloting a drone would have the drawback of not being able to reboot an overheating ship. But typically, if your ship is overheating, you're dead. Unless someone is being nice and lets you live and then lets you reboot your computer. Right now you would probably die, respawn back at your home base, and then have to travel back to the ship to stop the overheating process. Piloting a drone from your home base, would have the same challenge, but again, without the risk of faction point loss or player death. There is also something to be said for the "Player has died" message. Nobody on my server has ever seen my player account, "DestroyerOfWorlds" die at the hands of my enemies, and to me, that is an important part of how I roleplay in that character as head of the dark side. It's also satisfying, seeing all the players I have killed pop up on the info board.

Another thing to consider are things like bounties, kill boards, notoriety boards, etc. If a player literally never leaves their home base and can never be killed, it really invalidates these kinds of features for servers. But all that aside, I think it'd be pretty cool to have the option to play on a server where everything was "drone wars." I think it would be a lot of fun being able to pop into and out of ships that are scattered throughout the galaxy. But I do not think it would work well for a survival PVP server, such as the one I admin for, because it would take away a crucial element of survival gameplay and realism, death.
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Maybe physical damage points to player with drones destroyed a kind of feedback from neural controls until character dies?

That is interesting. I'd like to see that as a mod, but perhaps not in the base gameplay.
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I'd try to avoid to make the range dependent on sectors. Players shouldn't be kicked out of their ships just because the carrier accidentally crossed a nearby sector border. Also, players in remote controlled ships should have a display that shows their distance to their physical position as a percentage of the maximum distance, so they don't get kicked out of their ships by surprise.

Why not? Perhaps the range could be set to 4 sectors though rather than 2. This way the person could park 2 or 3 sectors out and have the leeway they need not to lose connection to the drone. (But admins could play with this and set it to their own liking) I used 2 because scanners can only scan up to 2 sectors away in enemy territory.

Oh, and a thought just occurred to me. One thing to consider is BUILDING on a drone. Wouldn't it be interesting to be able to build on any drone you have access to but only if it's in the same sector as you? Imagine how easily someone might be able to switch to different entities (by name) to modify them. What do you think?

 

[Malacodor]

Piloting a drone from your home base, would have the same challenge, but again, without the risk of faction point loss or player death.

That's why I suggested a system for losing FP for lost ships (dependent on mass) instead.

Another thing to consider are things like bounties, kill boards, notoriety boards, etc. If a player literally never leaves their home base and can never be killed, it really invalidates these kinds of features for servers. But all that aside, I think it'd be pretty cool to have the option to play on a server where everything was "drone wars." I think it would be a lot of fun being able to pop into and out of ships that are scattered throughout the galaxy.

I totally agree with this, all I want is the possibility to make drone wars servers, not an obligation.

But I do not think it would work well for a survival PVP server, such as the one I admin for, because it would take away a crucial element of survival gameplay and realism, death.

Permadeath would be realitic. :p

Why not? Perhaps the range could be set to 4 sectors though rather than 2. This way the person could park 2 or 3 sectors out and have the leeway they need not to lose connection to the drone.

As I said, players should have a range indicator, which wouldn't be very helpful since sector borders can't be seen.

 

[Benevolent27]

That's why I suggested a system for losing FP for lost ships (dependent on mass) instead.


I totally agree with this, all I want is the possibility to make drone wars servers, not an obligation.


Permadeath would be realitic. :p


As I said, players should have a range indicator, which wouldn't be very helpful since sector borders can't be seen.

I can this as being feasible. But I'd like to have the option to turn it off. I don't like a lot of clutter on my screen. I'd probably prefer to use distance from my selected target. Knowing which sector it is in gives me a rough effective distance I can travel from it.

 

[Edymnion]

Yeah, I don't think anybody is making the suggestion that you should be able to remote control a ship from inside your faction home with unlimited range. Thats really just a stupidly exaggerated extreme, IMO.

Of course the pilot should have to be close to the fight, close enough to actually be in danger.

Only time you'd want to have a drone pilot sitting in a faction home without any direct threat is when somebody is stupid enough to try directly attacking a protected faction home (in which case you're far better off keeping your drones docked and simply manning an invincible turret if you're that bored).

 

[Malacodor]

Yeah, I don't think anybody is making the suggestion that you should be able to remote control a ship from inside your faction home with unlimited range.

I do. As Benevolent27 said, drone wars servers could be fun. It would definitely encourage fearful players to fight more often.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

I do. As Benevolent27 said, drone wars servers could be fun. It would definitely encourage fearful players to fight more often.

... Sorta? I'm one of those "avoid PVP at all costs" players, and that's mostly because I despise loosing the ship I'm flying. *
As in, (and this is especially true of survival servers) all the resources+time that went into making that ship, have now effectively been flushed down a toilet, as I very obviously don't have them anymore. (and the time is the biggest sting, as it means now I have to delay my fun for yet moar asteroid mining so I can make the parts for a replacement goldfish)

Reducing it from "ship" to a "mere drone" that got offed only reduces the sting of lost_resources + time_spent_building_those_resources + assembly_time, it doesn't eliminate it.

Notes:
* I allso despise most forms of server interaction, outside of a very small circle of friends. I'm astoundingly bad at comprehending textual conversation cues, (epicly bad given that I'm a native speaker/reader of English) and unconsciously pick the more aggressive word choices. (oh, and all the swearing I'm typically holding back "because children" only makes me angrier, so I start consciously picking ever more aggressive words)

EDIT: All that said, and I forgot to note that I am in favor of this idea!

 

[Malacodor]

... Sorta? I'm one of those "avoid PVP at all costs" players, and that's mostly because I despise loosing the ship I'm flying. *
As in, (and this is especially true of survival servers) all the resources+time that went into making that ship, have now effectively been flushed down a toilet, as I very obviously don't have them anymore. (and the time is the biggest sting, as it means now I have to delay my fun for yet moar asteroid mining so I can make the parts for a replacement goldfish)

Apparently dying is worse than losing a small ship for some people. I guess most of them do afk fleet mining.

I allso despise most forms of server interaction, outside of a very small circle of friends. I'm astoundingly bad at comprehending textual conversation cues, (

epicly bad given that I'm a native speaker/reader of English) and unconsciously pick the more aggressive word choices. (oh, and all the swearing I'm typically holding back "because children" only makes me angrier, so I start consciously picking ever more aggressive words)

I know that problem. However, I find it very helpful to read what I wrote in chat before sending it. By the time I'm done writing and reading I oftentimes calmed down enough to not send the text. Also, reading your own text helps seeing it from an outside perspective.

 

[Nickizzy]

Because then there would never be a reason to actually pilot a ship yourself. As an admin for a PvP server, I would really hate how this would limit and detract from the investment a player has in whether they succeed or not in a battle. Part of what makes combat fun is the risk of death. For drones to be viable on a survival PVP server, the risk of death needs to be maintained (as in, that player must be reachable by the person they are attacking and possibly killed). For this feature to add something to the game, it should create more viable options, with their own set of pros and cons, not eliminate existing ones as untenable.

Some cons could be that you can't do build mode, maybe you can't do the zoom out thing, maybe an extra power cost. We have to think about how it would work too. Drone computer/drone controller? And how would the menu work? Would it be like the nav screen, where you can see all the ships(or turrets!) you could control.
How would factions affect RCing? Could you control neutral ships? What about allied ones? I'm assuming you couldn't control enemy ships, unless there was some system of hacking or you destroyed the faction block.

What if when you got ejected from the computer there was a "Bob's drone was killed by Jonny!"? Would that be fine for the death message thing?

 

[Benevolent27]

Some cons could be that you can't do build mode, maybe you can't do the zoom out thing, maybe an extra power cost. We have to think about how it would work too. Drone computer/drone controller? And how would the menu work? Would it be like the nav screen, where you can see all the ships(or turrets!) you could control.
How would factions affect RCing? Could you control neutral ships? What about allied ones? I'm assuming you couldn't control enemy ships, unless there was some system of hacking or you destroyed the faction block.

What if when you got ejected from the computer there was a "Bob's drone was killed by Jonny!"? Would that be fine for the death message thing?

It would have to be in a fleet you have control of, and be in the same sector as you. You would just select the fleet menu and click a button to enter the ship as a drone. If it stays in the same sector as you, then you can build. The moment you leave the sector, it loses it's inventory.

 

[Nickizzy]

It would have to be in a fleet you have control of, and be in the same sector as you. You would just select the fleet menu and click a button to enter the ship as a drone. If it stays in the same sector as you, then you can build. The moment you leave the sector, it loses it's inventory.

And you can only control it for 4-5 sectors more out after that?

Also, could we add an option to disallow the use of drone controllers in a homebase, so you would need to make a separate drone ship or station* nearby if you wanted to control things there.

*heck, even if they built it inside a room in the middle of it all, that would create a great incentive for boarding, as long as there was a system to prevent making a sealed room with unbreakable HB doors.

 

[Edymnion]

Could simply give it a 2 sector limit or a km limit, and have the drone automatically fall back into AI control if it leaves that radius.

 

[Nickizzy]

It depends on how you want to use a drone. Is it gonna be a tie-fighter type drone, that only flies really close to it's parent ship, or is it a long range scout vessel. Maybe(?) some system involving the ships mass and it's distance from the controller. So(I'm doing an equation example, hold on guys) if x is distance in meters and y is mass, it would use 10y+x^1.05
Not so much the numbers but the exponent that matters here. As you get further out, you need more and more power to maintain contact. And you also couldn't control a 100k mass ship to far out either.