Realistic scale

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    I'd like to see the scale being more realistic, so everything is seperated by millions of miles of empty space.

    in order to get anywhere, warp/hyperdrive should be implemented.

    sectors could be replaced with entire solar systems, each containing planets, moons, shops, asteroid belts, wormholes and hidden anomalies that could be found using some kind of scanning device.

    those anomalies could containg anything from a pirate base to an ancient stranded ship. The anomalies should be able to respawn, maybe you could increase their amount and respawnrate by claiming the system with a faction and buying upgrades.

    Also, waypoints would be an absolute necessety to be able to keep track of where everything is located.
     
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    Me too, and this way they wouldnt cause a lof of problems jumping throught a lot of sectors, because you just fly through empty space
     
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    I like the idea of populating systems with more stuff; but I\'ve bounced real-life distances around before and it\'d make it so that several things would break.

    First, the velocity required to orbit the earth is in the thousands of meters a second. The game\'s current speed limit defaults to 50 meters a second, and can be set up to the low hundreds before things break. There would absolutely need to be some kind of scale applied to things that aren\'t ships to keep a realistic scale while also keeping the game-physics working. However, scaling the universe too much would break immersion; a planet scaled to be orbited in seconds would be the same size as some large ships (as they are now). I\'d like to see planets larger, and speeds higher, and it\'s possible that the planet\'s appearance in space could be broken from it\'s actual size (i.e.: Rendering a planetary sphere in space that, once you enter it\'s \'atmosphere\' loads a larger flat-map planet with the cubes visible).

    Next, planets in our system are obscene distances apart from eachother. The moon is 348,000 kilometers (348,000,000 meters) away from earth. At the current speed limit, you\'d take 80.5 days to get there. So the distance between stellar objects would need to be lowered significantly. Or a kind of \'transit mode\' would need to be available in the void between stellar objects where players move much, much faster.

    I\'d like to see one of two situations: The first- where planets appear large when orbiting them, it\'s possible (and reasonable; an hour maybe to the absolute edge of the system) to get between planets in a system at STL, but really STL is only for manuvers and combat; while FTL is traditionally used to get between planets and stars. Sectors are similar to what they are now but maybe larger, one might contain a planet, while systems are groupings of many sectors. STL is impossible (you\'d just end up stuck there forever if you were allowed to enter it, you\'d never be able to find your way back and you\'d never encounter another system) between stars, and approaching the last sector in a system rebounds the player along the edge. FTL would be equipped on most ships, though there would be a distinction between drives and some would be better/faster than others (FTL gates might be free for ships to use and able to cross longer distances, while FTL drives cost the ship energy)

    The second sounds more exciting - Planets are still fairly large (larger than current planets), but significantly smaller than above, and close together. You can easily fly STL between planets in a system, and use them as cover in combat. They would be more variety in planet size - Gas Giant with near-earth sized moons, starwars-esque asteroid belts, small dwarf planets only just larger than asteroids, etc. A system might be just a few sectors (many planets per sector; alt. sectors are smaller and planets are closer together if the programming requires), and it\'d be possible to fly STL between stars (up to an hour or two between each star system). FTL would be system-system only, and probably through large, strategic, gates. The interstellar medium could be inhabited by players with only semi-rare rogue planets, stations, and loads of asteroids.
     

    SkyHawk024

    Mandalorian ShipWright.
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    i like this idea yet i dont, for the fact it would take a year for newer players to actually get anywhere when they first start because they\'d be lacking the fund probably to build a ship capable of hyperspace jumps. limiting them to a small small galaxy.
     
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    He is proposing for gates to be placed in the galaxy along with FTL drives, thus new players who wish to move to a different sector (or in this case different solar system) must use a gate and would be limited in that sense (since the more valuable solar systems may not be connected via gate).

    I really like this idea, since it would give a feeling of being tiny.... even in a massive Titan. However bringing down the size of sectors would give a few challenges, since you cannot attack enemies in a seperate sector large ship battles may just be catching the other guys tail that\'s still in your sector. I may be the only one but I\'ve found that battles go through atleast 10 sectors now, how many would we have to go through before a victor is claimed if they are shrunk?

    I think sectors should be expanded so that all planets and their star are in one sector with a grid system so you can still go to a specific point within the sector. This would let battles be slightly more realistic (being able to shoot through the darkness and catch an unsuspecting enemy on the other side of the sector) without much hastle from lag due to loading a new sector when in combat. Jumping to a new sector would result in a short loading time followed by everything being loaded so you may see it, even that little enemy space station on the other side of the star (however you have to have pretty good eyes to see the faded thing).

    Perhaps also implement a sort of money system for gates such as \"to travel to X system you must pay X amount of credits\" that way you wouldn\'t have that many people able to just hop right across the entire universe in a short amount of time (if you include the time to get to the next gate). The cost wouldn\'t cripple new players however with a fairly cheap jump cost for ships under x mass.
     
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    @skyhawk: i\'d make jump/warp drives very accessible for small ships, but for big ships you\'d eighter need to place them in some very complicated configuration or make energy consumption and blocks required per mass increase exponentialy

    @lolz; you mentioned you shouldn\'t make sectors smaller, hower, i said i\'d replace sectors with entrire solar systems, so that\'s making them much bigger, however, i don\'t think this is realistic for computers to be able to. but i do think they could handle much bigger sectors then those we\'ve got now

    @me2005: i think minumun required orbiting velocity isn\'t something a whole lot of people would mis, also, unless the planets are actualy real life planet sized, you might be able to actualy orbit them with 50KPH, also, it could be due to some downwards thruster that our ships stay above the planet

    idea\'s on stargates: i\'ve read a topic that mentioned systems with varying security levels, so we could put stargates in the high security systems, in which you would spawn and be able to build a ship that has a jump/warp/FTL drive, and don\'t add jumpgates in the lower security systems
     
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    Yes, it would be nicer if space was divided by solar systems with a star and some planets and other random things... but my main problem is the planet scale, they\'re tiny!

    Planets are not round but I get that is just too hard to do... a solution for this would be great, the 2 sided planets would be awesome... or even a giant cube would be great ! with gravity on each side...



    But anyway, warp drives would be nice.. it would be nicer if you didn\'t just teleport but go through some kind of alternate space that is a smaller version ... which basically acts like a map that you can move through and you can exit at any time.
     
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    I like big scale idea. I assume there\'s also no floating point accuracy errors when each sector resets the internal coordinates.

    And, these kind of things are asking alot of rewrite for current galaxy engine, so better sooner than later.
     
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    yes, i realize it\'s starting a lot of stuff from scratch, so i hope schema notices this
     
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    @Planeofsluck - the trick with planetary orbital velocity isn\'t that we\'d need to do it; just ignoring gravity would make that work the way we want. It\'s that it takes more than an hour to orbit an earth-sized planet at 7800 m/s - about 26 times the maximum any physical (projectiles could hit-scan) object should probably travel in-game and 156 times the current velocity limit.

    The planets would need to be significantly smaller, and probably nothing like real scale. I\'d think that orbiting a planet should take no more than a minute or so, which, without increasing the velocity, would mean a maximum (experianced in-space; changing the planet mechanics to render an object in space and load the surface when you get in-atmosphere could change the physical size to anything) planet diameter of around 1km (~1/12,000th the size of the Earth). Maybe an exceptionally large planet would have a diameter that takes several minutes to orbit.

    Depending on if you want planets to be FTL only or not, it\'d take years to get between them at a realish scale. It\'d take something like 10 minutes to get from the Earth to the Moon at our reduced scale, and just over a full day (~26 hours) to get from the Earth to Mars at the closest together they\'ve been. If speeds were increased in the interstellar medium to 300 m/s, it\'d still take about 4.5 hours.

    I\'d be for a larger scale to things, and think the planets especially need to feel more massive; but don\'t think that the scale of the universe should be anything like real. Crossing a system in about an hour or two would put it at about 180 kilometers in diameter or radius at current maximum speed, at 300 m/s it\'d be 1,080 kilometers.

    That change would make FTL would be basically manditory between points of real interest, and it\'d probably function like minecraft teleports from fixed locations (portals). Players could be so spread out that they\'d never see eachother on purpose, and that\'s in one system. Limiting the number of planets in any system to a very low number (9 or so, like ours) and making them more highly visible (you can see the planets in some form from just about anywhere in system, and you\'d always have nav icons for them available) would prevent some of that, and giving players a mock heat-detector that told them where everyone in-system was a few minutes in the past and was blocked by planets would allow them to seek eachother out within reason.

    Really though, I\'d rather have a much more compact universe as I\'ve described above; something that is similar to the current setup but with bigger planets. Maybe even a little more compact than the current setup, so FTL is not nesseary in-system (and rarely worthwhile) but is system to system (though it\'s still possible to fly system to system, it just takes some time- maybe up to an hour).
     
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    the warp drive would make the starsystems compact, i\'m talking about, after your drive is charged, it takes you to several hundred times the speed of light, so earth-moon takes just seconds, and one side of a solar system to another still not very long
     
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    @ Planeofsuck: So FTL would be *mandatory* to get place to place.

    If you\'ve got nothing but empty space between planets, why let players use a travel-drive (warp) at all? Why not just have a point-to-point drive (hyperdrive, jump drive, warpgates, etc.) to keep players from being lost in the middle of nowhere, or worse (for gameplay) establishing secret bases out where no one will ever find them?

    I\'d rather shrink things down so you\'ve got an Earth & Moon system than have it so large that you need FTL to get to *any* planetary body. Every system would have a single planet or moon, that\'d be dull :/

    As I said a post ago, this *could* work, but it\'d be by limiting the number of sectors do basically just as many as there are planets (So you\'d have a Mercury system, a Venus System, a Earth + Moon system, a Mars + Demos + Phobos system, etc. etc. and warp is between those, no warping to the middle of nowhere).
     
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    Id like some larger scales, moving about is far to fast between planets for the most part. I have my files set so i can go 100 km/h and be between planets pretty fast. But scaling it up would allow for higher speeds to be implimented (theoretically). I would like to build a small ship that can goo 1k km/h while my bigger ship say, maxes out at 600 without an absurd amount of engines or a warp drive of some sort. A realistic scale though could be just plain annoying to deal with.
     
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    @me2005: you\'d be able to find hidden bases with a scanner. One of the main reasons why i want this is so hidden locations could be added, as of now the only things you can do is finding pirate bases, waiting for pirates to show up, or pvp. The generated sites could be somewhat rare but could contain a lot of loot. Or just huge asteroids with a lot of rare minerals, ect
     
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    @Planeofsuck - You could make hidden bases now, just fly to some sector not near anyone else and build. Making a system anything like realistic scale would basically just add an obscene number of empty sectors.

    A sector is 1,000 meters, right? In my above ideal examples of a couple hours to cross the entire system at STL, you\'d be looking at between 2,289,060 and 494,436,960 sectors per system; or for those who can\'t/don\'t like to read numbers, between two and five-hundred million systems - and that\'s nothing like real-scale. Real-life estimates of the size of the entire solar system would place it at around 3,545,213,502,558,178,999,084,818,895,244,100,000,000 sectors; I don\'t even know the word for that number but it\'s like three billions of hundred-trillions of hundred-trillions.

    Making planets larger and more visible, adding a method of FTL between objects, adding long-range sensors, and keeping the current scale seems like it\'d do what you want just fine.
     
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    I think sectors are a programming method for lowering the overhead of the game. Getting rid of them, from what I understand, is not possible. I would prefer that they were larger, but that may not be possible either.