races / terraforming

[drunken waffel]

In starmade we all know there is going to be more forms of life then the mystical being named Dave that somehow dose not need to breath. The question is what is it going to be. In my opinion this it what I would like to see.

However many years that have past between now and starmade we all can agree on two things. One it is a long time and two something really went wrong to turn the universe into cubes (maybe the Borg got a hold of it).

On a more serious note in the time that has past the human race would have evolved and adapted to there new home among the stars. I think it would be interesting to have all human races but have evolved to live in different conditions such as ice worlds, dessert worlds, or to even adapted to space and are a race of nomads living in a huge city ship. They might be more aggressive or passive, smart or dumb. Each having there own planet type that others can't permanently stay on yet you get a bonus for being on. Yet they all can survive on earth type planets because it is where they all came from yet get no bonus (basically neutral ground same as ships accept for the space nomads ).

If you can't find a planet that suites you no big deal just mount a huge beam on your ship and blast away at the planet to make it more suitable. If it is to cold warm it up with a huge laser beam the cold just bomb it so the dust blocks the sun and makes an ice age. Ok maybe not that but still you get the Point you terraform it to suite your needs(would be very expensive). It even could be used as a new form of warfare but I can see that getting to OP.

You may ask "why not make alien races" well if you look in a telescope you will see not many place in the nabor hood support any sort of life so it is way more likely for us to terraform them to suite us. Plus it adds a bit of unity to know that they all came from the same roots.

Maybe if you go out far enough you will find alien races but not till you get FTL witch would give it a better purpose than "oh look how fast I can go".

This along with my company idea in my earlier suggestion " concepts for a functional economy" I think would create a very interesting social system.

 

[Ixalite]

I understand that various creatures, and soon alien races, are coming...

 

[NeonSturm]

We assume that they need some limb to grab something - at least 3 or 4 usable fingers, tentacles or arms to make them be able to built their first tools.

But maybe they dominate the mind of other creatures on their planet -animals- like in Avatar (the movie with planet Pandora) or form a collective life form over multiple species...
Or have created machines and their natural limbs de-evolved back.​

Despite that I would like some very unique psychological differences.

* Some may get agresive and even kill each other for greed, when they get exposed to high stress without being alone for some time of their day (this would prevent an over-growth of their civilisation and be an excuse and the cause for low penalties for killing)
* A more significant difference will be the average life time of each species. At least pre- space-traveling species should ask for things that make a difference in shorter time-spans, while others think about stuff that is good in the long run.
* Others will just sleep twice our day because their planet spin was faster (or the opposite) or pray to the holy easter-egg​

 

[IsApro2000]

oke this is what i think should happen:

first of all i do not agree the aliens should be a form of humans, because humans arent reallt interesting and cool looking, however it can be different races that share some aspects (that would also be easier to code than having a couple intirely other races)

i though it would be great if the aliens would be like ores, you have different kinds of ores and different tiers, these are the things i could come up with:

(not rare)tier 5/L1: simple forms of live that life on the rocks of astriods and planets, some of the tier 5 races are also able to life on the hulls of stations and ships, they are mostly harmless since they are immobile, however if you salvage the block with a special kind of beam, you get *name of the race* in a capsule and can be used for different things (maybe you can do stuff with that race to make it into a a lethal super weapon?)

(a bit more rare)tier 4/L2: these are very little aliens, that life on planets, they do not attack natural and only attack if you do stuff they dont like (hurt them or one of their friends for instance) as use for them is maybe a pet so you have a bit of protection against other animals on planets

(rare) tier 3/L3: these are the bigger aliens, they life on planets, and you can clearly see what alien going to be hostile and wich one is going to be friendly since hostile directly try to kill you and friendly are just fine with you being near them unless you atack them. as use also pets, but then way stronger and are able to kill a astronaut if you command them.

(really rare)tier 2/l4: these are intelligent forms of life, they life in regular houses, the hostile races in tier 3 are going to be less hostile but do more damage. and friendly races will just look at you and maybe give you presents so you wont kill them (thats what humans would do if a strange alien guy would get on your planet with an huge plane looking thing) other than that they the only vehicles they have are things that look like cars

(not rare ) tier 1/l5: these are the most intelligent form of life, they have spaceships, stations and shops. hostile will just be like pirates and friendly like the trading guild but its random per universe what race is hostile to what race. they have their own shops like i told and sell more of their resource (of the planet were they came from) but the buy/sell price is lower.

(really rare) tier I/LI: the I stands for infected, it can happen with any tier except tier 5 (they would just die because they are too weak) when a race is infected it will look different and always be hostile, also against eachother, there should be a way to cure the infected to turn them back into their original tier

as for the races:

some races can befriend eachother and make their own faction, but its always random per universe, like if humans and warwolves befriend, they make the human-warwolf alliance, they will be friendly and fight together but in another universe, they would fight against eachother

human: you, the other astronauts and some of the trading guild members, will always be tier 1 and will die if infected

warwolves: a race that is pretty advanced in weapon technology and their ships and station would be black/white/grey. the tier 5 would just be a grey thing on a rock, the tier 4 would be a little wolf, the tier 3 would be a big wolf, tier 2 a wolf that walks on both 2 and 4 feet if he wants, tier 1 a wolf that walks on 2 feet. and tier I would be a wolf with red eyes. they come in colors grey (not rare) black (rare) white (super rare). they life on earth like planets

greyheads: a race that is advanced in defense technology and their ships/stations would be yellow with ice crystals. the tier 5 would be a yellow thing on a rock, tier 4 a little grey guy with a huge brain (your usual grey/thin alien with big head) tier 3 would have a bigger body and tier 2 a bigger head. they do not change on tier 1. they are always grey when not infected but dark/black when infected. they life on ice planets

raptile: a race that advanced in engine technology (if thats even a thing) and their ships/stations would be green/red. tier 5 would be a green thing on a rock, tier 4 little gecko like creature, tier 3 a crocodile like creature and tier 2 just like the warwolf a crocodile that walks on 4 but also on 2 if he wants. tier 1 a walking one 2 feet corocodile like creature. tehy are green and red (red is more rare). they would be yellowish if infected. they life on desert planets

this is my idea on how they could be implented and will be interesting for a long time (atleast for me),

 

[NeonSturm]

I would like intelligent life forms to act dependent on experiences.

Situation X:

• (emotionality * life-time) chance of Experience A
• (rationality * life-time) chance of Experience B
• (irrationality * life-time) chance of Experience C
• ...

Experience:

• A: filter hostile/ceasefire/neutral/ally/unknown/playerX/factionX, aggression: +x, -x
• A, B: filter hostile/ceasefire/neutral/ally/unknown/playerX/factionX, fear: +x, -x
• A: filter hostile/ceasefire/neutral/ally/unknown/playerX/factionX, fondness: +x, -x

fear and aggression -for example- are exclusive choices.

Some experiences only count against a certain player/ship/relation/faction.
Others let a being cross the gap between natural friendliness and fear.

"Old" experiences have a chance to count if they are related to the current mood or accumulate with new experiences.
Only the most X most relevant experiences count. X is dependent on the intelligence of the life form.

 

[jayman38]

I'm not a big fan of alternate alien races. In conventional Sci Fi, they tend to devolve into little more than human beings with forehead makeup. Plus, having them so common in the universe makes the encounter with an alternate species lose its magic and excitement. I would prefer to see Alien beings be truly strange. Vicious Xenomorphs. Playful Q. Cooperative crystaline brains that form living computers. System Shock's The Many or John Carpenter's The Thing or The Borg, minus that "Hugh" or "7 of 9" humanity nonsense. These kinds of strange creatures appeal to me as truly alien.

On the other hand, we have aliens that just aren't alien enough to be justified as new characters in this game and can simply be skins for the existing astronaut. There's predators and klingons, which can simply be described as big, tough, backwoods hunter people. There are Minbari, Kaminoans, and Vulcans, which are cold, holier-than-thou weenies. There are mysterious races like Vorlon, but those tend to be pretty easy to understand once you peer behind the curtain. Basically, the astronaut helmet needs to have a solid, opaque color, so that the creature underneath is unidentified. Then, you have 90% of all possible SciFi species right there, because most of the popular SciFi species tend to be bipedal anyway. Quadripedal alien species would be neat, and I think I've seen setups for such creatures in the bones (not bonus) area of server configs.

Another idea: Pick a different species and you end up in a WILDLY different part of the game universe. Human? You start out in 4002, 1202, 8002. Hattaman? You start out in 1602, -8010, -1206. Jellyman? You start out in -4010, -1610, 3202. Etc. Then, whenever you do find an alternate species from your own, it's a special encounter that you only get by traveling thousands of sectors out into space. Then players that like to play in a group can pick the most popular race (probably humans in most servers), and isolationist players can pick less popular races.

 

[whooplaah]

I'd like for any creature put into the game to have some sort of in-game purpose aside from aesthetics. Perhaps they are farmable for food or fuel. Perhaps some eat metal and are a threat to ships and bases, while others secrete oils used in manufacturing. Some creatures help teraform by transforming snow into grass or plants into purple tentacle stuff. Maybe there are giant space whales that eat ships, or giant worms that live in asteroids and attack ships that harvest them. Different intelligent species may pay different prices for certain materials which they feel are sacred, profane, or especially delicious. Perhaps some alien species don't have galactic credits, but barter instead.

As far as variety is concerned, like @jayman38 said variety is key. Not all creatures reproduce with two sexes, and not all creatures eat. Some may be psychic and not need hands. Some may be able to exist in the vacuum of space, living off solar radiation or stardust.

All creatures have the ability to be an enemy, but it takes a certain level of intelligence for a creature to learn it can trust other species.

My suggestion for the hierarchy of creatures (increasing in complexity as the list goes down):
Level 0:
Plants and flora. These already exist in game, and have no intelligence or locomotive ability what-so-ever. They may have a purpose as fuel, manufacturing components, or as food for the player or other creatures.

Level 1:
Sludges, oozes, and stupid animals. These creatures have little perception beyond 'food' and 'not food.' They cannot be bred on command, though perhaps they can be farmed if provided with a safe habitat. Even so, they have little use beyond being an obstacle to the player. They may have uses if dropped in enemy ships, but will be just as likely to attack friendly units, or the player, as foes.

Level 2:
Animals. These creatures have no language skills, but can be domesticated and trained to not attack their owner. Perhaps they are used for food or manufacturing, maybe they secrete an ooze that is great for interstellar drives, or perhaps they may be a trade item loved by some space faring race or collector. Imagine dropping a load of metal-eating cattle into a capital ship. Suddenly it is important that the enemy have enough crew members to clean up the mess before it gets out of hand. Some may reproduce asexually, others having two sexes and others having more. Perhaps they eat plants, other creatures, stone, dirt, or metal. These creatures know enough to not attack their owner, but not their owner's allies or other domestic animals.

Level 3:
Intelligence. These cave-man equivalents have a basic concept of tactics, such as fighting in a group when facing something more powerful, or running away if their life seems to be in danger. They may even trade items, though they won't have access to galactic credits and will instead barter. They have the ability to use some tools, and make rudimentary boarding parties. These are the first creatures capable of telling the difference between friendly faction members and enemy faction members.

Level 4:
Sentience. These creatures have societies, towns, and technology. They have economy, and may have access to galactic credits (if space faring) or perhaps use a gem or shard as currency on their planet (if not space faring). They can be hired as crew members to give a boost to ship stats or to repel boarding parties. They may be used as a boarding party themselves.

I like what @NeonSturm said about intelligence creatures having personality. I don't know much about AI programming, so I can't suggest much in the way of implementation. If crews can be implemented, it would be nice for them not to just be clones of each other.

 

[NeonSturm]

Basic (game-)AI programs are simple (I saw some strategy-game AI implementations: SpringRTS.com, Supreme-Commander-FA).
You have a bunch of actions, requirements for each action and weight. Weight is divided by the sum of weight of concurrent actions -> that is your probability.

Advanced AI programs are more complex:

Dynamic probabilities based on dynamically potence - based on how often and how intense the cases.
Each creature can feel the strength of "bad" or "good" in relation to their most intense, still memorized experience.
Something a sentient likes is something that causes good feeling whenever they do it.
Good feelings are initially caused by:

• Learned something new, something that feels useful for later
• Receiving good Feedback (peer pressure)
• Done something that is good for somebody they can imagine being themselves
• Done something that has a positive effect on the environment indirectly affecting themselves
• ...

Bad feelings are initially caused by:

• Repeated failure (stress) of archiving something
• Receiving bad Feedback
• Done something opposite to what creates a good feeling and prevents some of it in future
• Lack of good experiences

These initial feelings are hard-coded into the DNA, or an inevitable consequence of how our brain is built -out of DNA

Most other feelings are good or bad because they remember you to something at which you felt good or bad, or because you think you are expected to do.

For sentient, changing environments cause mental stress, and too much of it feels bad as it creates experiences of failure or more stress which even more remembers of failure.

And the search for a partner - while initiated by a good physical feeling through pheromone in animals - humans search it also because they search for positive feedback and reduced stress 'cause of more success through shared knowledge.
And a lot of other reasons.​

Why do you submit your blueprint? you have the Face Book-syndrome and are hungry after likes
Why do you post and read through threads? you want to gain knowledge about something you like.
You want to compare yourself and learn in an environment where failure don't cause stress.
Or you want to succeed at least somewhere when everything else goes wrong.​

The greatest challenges of creating an AI is to learn how to do something, how to code a thought and how to initialize and process experiences.

• How to learn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Markov_model
• Processing experiences is the search for a "good" strategy and finding similar experiences which you already rated as good/bad.
• Initialize: Don't miss something important, or you create a Terminator :p Figure out, what is done by DNA and what by parents/school/friends?
• A thought - can create relations to others, can connect to similar, can have one or more ratings - good/bad.
  • can even be partially good (over similar thought 1), partially bad (over similar thought 2)

Maybe you don't remember how everything is based on some initial just good or bad - everything more complex is a mixture of both and sometimes bound to thoughts of running away to not feel pain / continue living vs fighting for glory.

My opinion:

Humans can't remember things before their 3rd to 4th year of life and have to rule-out possibilities to find the right assumptions how their sentience has begun. It is a long process to figure out why you experience everything how you do and few humans can track down their thoughts to the basic good and bad feelings. These are the peoples which will create the first AIs by thinking about them, not random success like in a program for evolutionary simulation​

 

[whooplaah]

That answer was way deeper that I was expecting. But I'm going to look into the programs you mentioned. Thank you for sharing.