QOL Improvements to Recoil:

[Dire Venom]

Atm recoil feels very jarring and breaks the immersion a bit.
I feel a better implementation of the concept would just be an expanding circle around the cross-hair to show the growing in-accuracy as the weapon constantly fires. Gains radius per each shot, and losses radius per each time tick as well.

That way it can be applied to the AI as well as players equally without being so in your face as it is currently.

What it does atm: (Flips your cursor around the screen)

Some basic concept images for an improved recoil visualization:

Before firing:

After Firing:

After heavy Firing:

(Obviously just for the concept, not actual dispersion)

 

[GnomeKing]

Nice idea - something different to current implementation is needed - it 'feels' awful at the moment.

 

[EricBlank]

Gotta agree, this would be a far better way to implement the loss of accuracy than what weve got at the moment.

 

[Nosajimiki]

I would go with "it would be way better to remove recoil". Cannons are inaccurate enough without it , but if we can't have such a reasonable thing, then I'd go with this idea and reduce recoil by at least 75%... or possibly even give it a WAY smaller effect, but let it bleed off slower such that holding down a large c-c for 20 sec might still accrue noticeable inaccuracy, but still see a pretty spot on aim for a 3-5 second burst.
[doublepost=1525728890,1525728678][/doublepost]

After Firing:

FYI: this will result in at ~80-90% of shots missing against most large ships at actual engagement ranges with most of the few shots that do hit missing the reactor anyway. Against a fighter, you are looking at a pretty hopeless endeavor.
[doublepost=1525728946][/doublepost]

After heavy Firing:

This is beyond futile.

Or for people who like math: at 10km (standard max range for old cannons), a 50m wide ship requires accuracy within 0.3 degrees to hit (this means that you need to get a 0.15 deg deviation or less to hit assuming that is not moving). That means that if you are finging at a vertical ship that is 50m wide with a 3 deg deviation. your accuracy will be about 5%. A longboat will be much lower since you will deviate to miss both vertically and horizontally. Zoom that into knife fighting range of 2km, you are still looking at a 0.7 deg deviation which means you still only have about a 24% chance vs vertical and a 6% chance vs a 50x50m longboat (if both people are being perfectly still.).

 

[NaStral]

I think recoil should not effect other turrets or the entity it's mounted on either. It should be restricted to the body firing it alone.

Though really, why? Why decide to make cannons worse than they already are? They need significant improvements, not nerfs.

As of the current dev build the only reliable weapon is beams, and even then, only certain combinations. If these issues are not fixed and the weapon update launches like this no one will use anything but beams. Fights between large or very small ships will also last for hours. Combat will become a massive snooze fest.

 

[Dire Venom]

I would go with "it would be way better to remove recoil". Cannons are inaccurate enough without it , but if we can't have such a reasonable thing, then I'd go with this idea and reduce recoil by at least 75%... or possibly even give it a WAY smaller effect, but let it bleed off slower such that holding down a large c-c for 20 sec might still accrue noticeable inaccuracy, but still see a pretty spot on aim for a 3-5 second burst.
[doublepost=1525728890,1525728678][/doublepost]

FYI: this will result in at ~80-90% of shots missing against most large ships at actual engagement ranges with most of the few shots that do hit missing the reactor anyway. Against a fighter, you are looking at a pretty hopeless endeavor.
[doublepost=1525728946][/doublepost]

This is beyond futile.

Or for people who like math: at 10km (standard max range for old cannons), a 50m wide ship requires accuracy within 0.3 degrees to hit (this means that you need to get a 0.15 deg deviation or less to hit assuming that is not moving). That means that if you are finging at a vertical ship that is 50m wide with a 3 deg deviation. your accuracy will be about 5%. A longboat will be much lower since you will deviate to miss both vertically and horizontally. Zoom that into knife fighting range of 2km, you are still looking at a 0.7 deg deviation which means you still only have about a 24% chance vs vertical and a 6% chance vs a 50x50m longboat (if both people are being perfectly still.).

Please bear in mind the last line, that they are illustrations only XD
I am well aweare how useless a weapon with that accuracy would be in practice.
Nor am I much of a fan of recoil either.
I don't think it does a good job as a balancing factor.

Damage fall-off, range etc could also acheive the same result without new mechanics if they want to limit cannons in someway.
Idk why though.

 

[Nosajimiki]

Please bear in mind the last line, that they are illustrations only XD
I am well aweare how useless a weapon with that accuracy would be in practice.
Nor am I much of a fan of recoil either.
I don't think it does a good job as a balancing factor.

Damage fall-off, range etc could also acheive the same result without new mechanics if they want to limit cannons in someway.
Idk why though.

Yes, I like the visual, just making a point that once recoil is enough to even notice, you've made cannons useless.

 

[M.Waites]

Hm...

How about, just like missiles now cannons and beams get another block for their individual uses?

Like Recoil dampeners for cannons and Capacitors for beams?

So the Recoil dampeners...well dampen the recoil xD and for really bg guns you'd need a lot of them to negate the recoil.

And for Beams the Capacitors to increase the tick duration? Like a beam without one would basically be a pulse laser, so maybe a fast reload but only a tick of damage before the cd kicks in, and more capacitors would mean a longer tick you could do, which might even help in the DOOMLASER thing if those things would require an insane amount of those capacitors (and/or the energy drain like shield rechargers have, basically the same dynamic between gun and capacitors? Like the bigger the gun the more caps you need and hence increase the energy amount?).

So all three weapons would feel unique had their individual pro's and con's and could allow for a wide range of choices in regards to how one uses them.

Maybe a bit recoil isn't so bad if it saves you mass/internal volume in return or you want this really smooth gun but you have to make sacrifices,
for beams you can have either pew pew pews which might be god vs smaller ships but against bigger ships you might go for a PEW weapon instead.

And missiles, well are only magazines so far which is a bit sad but I guess could counter a potential spam of them too.

 

[JNC]

Atm recoil feels very jarring and breaks the immersion a bit.
I feel a better implementation of the concept would just be an expanding circle around the cross-hair to show the growing in-accuracy as the weapon constantly fires. Gains radius per each shot, and losses radius per each time tick as well.

Inaccuracy is not intrinsic to recoil or vice versa......... For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, that's what recoil is; it probably needs to be adjusted but if your ship is bouncing around because of recoil than perhaps its mass is too little for the size of the weapon being fired. FPS games implement a growing sight reticle to represent the effects of recoil on aim (and other factors) because you cannot feel it BUT if you are in a vehicle (or spaceship in this case) than it shouldnt be required because the whole vehicle is affected and it wouldnt be out of place to redirect your view based on recoil... Try Arma for that matter, when in FPS your view and the weapon moves.

HOWEVER, I would like to see a variable sight reticle to show selected weapon accuracy at the targeted objects range.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

Cannons sucked before and sound like they still do. Recoil is completely unnecessary and it needing all this complex design to work shows how bad an idea it is. Best it just dies.

 

[Nosajimiki]

GAU-8 Avenger - Wikipedia

If an 20th century airplane can land 80% of its shots within 5 milliradians (aka 0.28 degrees) firing a machine gun that weighs, 16% of the aircraft's total mass while having to compensate for whether and gravity... I feel like a spaceship should be able to do the same.

 

[EricBlank]

Thats a great point, but we also need to remember those slugs arent particularly massive compared to the mass of the aircraft: unless its machine gun could accelerate them to the speed of light, the recoil really would be minimal. We need a measure of the mass of projectiles in starmade based on what we know of them before we can decide how much acceleration firing a projectile at 500mps should impart on the craft. We could wing it based on damage values or energy costs to fire or something, but right now all we know about the physical properties is its muzzle velocity. We can measure the ships mass if we assume 1.0 mass = 1 ton, and its velocity, but not the mass of a projectile.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

Thats a great point, but we also need to remember those slugs arent particularly massive compared to the mass of the aircraft: unless its machine gun could accelerate them to the speed of light, the recoil really would be minimal. We need a measure of the mass of projectiles in starmade based on what we know of them before we can decide how much acceleration firing a projectile at 500mps should impart on the craft. We could wing it based on damage values or energy costs to fire or something, but right now all we know about the physical properties is its muzzle velocity.

I'd just assume the shots are made of uranium and work from their volume. Ultimately, I think it still wouldn't be a noticible amount of recoil with how tiny they are relative to even a basic gun on a core (assuming blocks are made of like steel).

 

[EricBlank]

Recoil should definitely be a lot less powerful, but not nonexistent, especially firing a gun that takes up most of the craft id expect it to be significant, accelerating it backwards a couple m/s

I cant think of anything besides maybe neutron star matter or a black hole that could have so much mass that accelerating it should send a vessel 10000× as voluminous lurching backwards at 30m/s

 

[Valiant70]

Cannons have always been kind of bad. Sticky beams don't help the situation. Cannons don't need more nerfs.
[doublepost=1527532946,1527532773][/doublepost]The only way I can see recoil working is to apply it only to rapid guns, and only at a very small angle. Half the reason to use rapid-fire weapons is to spray down an area with projectiles. Recoil should work FOR you in that goal instead of making the weapon unusable.

 

[Raisinbat]

Idiotic suggestion, eating shit doesn't need QOL improvements, it needs to be removed from the game.

 

[Valiant70]

Idiotic suggestion, eating shit doesn't need QOL improvements, it needs to be removed from the game.

Oh hello. Fierce as usual I see. You're essentially correct though.

 

[Captain Fortius]

Atm recoil feels very jarring and breaks the immersion a bit.
I feel a better implementation of the concept would just be an expanding circle around the cross-hair to show the growing in-accuracy as the weapon constantly fires. Gains radius per each shot, and losses radius per each time tick as well.

That way it can be applied to the AI as well as players equally without being so in your face as it is currently.

This is what we need.
It's clean, simple and efficient.

Ships flying backwards or tumbling after a shot is a scene fit for a Looney Tunes episode. It's also a bunch of calculations that, yet again, eat computing power that could be put to better use.

Want more?

-Our weapons don't use ammo. So they must be energy based weapons. Those have zero recoil.
-Missiles are notoriously low recoil weapons.
-Even if something DID cause noticable recoil, every Starmade ship is equipped with inertial dampeners. That fictional technology is commonly used to negate weapons recoil.

 

[Nosajimiki]

Cannons have always been kind of bad. Sticky beams don't help the situation. Cannons don't need more nerfs.
[doublepost=1527532946,1527532773][/doublepost]The only way I can see recoil working is to apply it only to rapid guns, and only at a very small angle. Half the reason to use rapid-fire weapons is to spray down an area with projectiles. Recoil should work FOR you in that goal instead of making the weapon unusable.

The problem with this is that when the game comes under lag, the sim rate slows down. This mean more shots are stacked in the queue between cycles forcing their recoil to add up without any time to cool down; so, even a small recoil that might be 0.3 deg when normally compounded can spread out to 3.0 degrees when the game slows down to 1 sfps during a major battle. A better approach to this would be taking the old accuracy configs, and making them weapon dependant, giving each weapon a set accuracy spread. IE: cannon-cannon might be accurate within .5 degrees, cannon-beam within .05 degrees, beam-beam within .35 degrees, etc, etc... Because fixed accuracy models don't accrue inaccuracy as they fire, they are not affected by lag.

 

[Dire Venom]

Idiotic suggestion, eating shit doesn't need QOL improvements, it needs to be removed from the game.

From what Schema has said, they are looking at recoil but don't plan on removing it at this time. Last dev update reduced recoil by 50%.
That being said I still don't see it working in the game as it is, however since Schema isn't about to remove it we can at least make it less crap, hence the suggestion.
Yes, we all know that a bunch of us don't like it, but when has it stopped them before?