Procedural Blocks/Corners/Parts (Revised Edition)

[Bad-Habit]

I posted this in the wrong-ish place so I'm re-submitting it here.

Note: I found all these pictures on google, sorry :l

I've looked at a small number of voxel-based games, and I'd list this one near the top (a tie between two actually) of my list for potential beyond what people could ever dream of ever experiencing... but none of them (so far) have ever seemed to consider the possibility of making procedural corners, inverse corners, triangular prisms, or squared pyramids. Everything is always a static block, or corner... rigid. Even in Space Engineers or From The Depths, building blocks are always set, and there is no room for true building exploration.

It's no small task making functional procedural parts (I don't know much about coding in voxel terms, so I assume difficult), so I don't expect it to happen soon (or at all), but the possible utility of such parts in a voxel universe would be astounding (artistically, mechanically, etc.)

The way I'd envision it working, is this:

I have a 4 (l) by 5 (w) by 1 (h) (4x5x1) series of blocks, and on the last row (3rd) of blocks, there is another three rows of blocks stacked at a right angle...

(working with the picture here to provide a visual aid)

Now I want to connect these together with a triangular-prism:

I select the shape I am looking for (the prism) and enter in the details (3x5x3) visually (like showing a outline of where and how the piece will appear) or in a pop-up screen in where I type in the info. I place the shape, and voilla, there is a l-shaped figure with a ramp connecting all the pieces together (duplication of previously made shapes would be killer).


As for what I mean by corners:

A good example is From The Depths, they have the physical blocks (polygons, while not the procedural generation of parts) I'm speaking of.

A corner (of a block) = right angle triangular pyramid, roughly a quarter of a cube (block):

(the inverse corner of course is the opposite of that: 3/4ths of a cube with that triangular piece missing, useful if you feel like rounding off an edge into a corner piece).

This would also be useful if you could make corners for formations that were both longer, wider, or higher than one block, for example: A 4x1x1 straight, adjacent to two 4x1x1 ramps are placed, and having a 4x1x1 corner connecting all 3 makes the shape more fluid.

I might also reference Kerbal Space Program to my explanation, which does actually have procedural parts, but on a far different scale (cones for example).

I'll be honest... I love to build artistically, I love to build for efficiency, and I love to build for power (and sometimes the few together). This that I'm suggesting would fulfill all those desires, particularly if you combine the generation of parts with the possible functions of such parts: wiring, armor, etc.

I can't be the only one, right?

Truthfully, I'm just breaking the ice in this game for a very long time (I played once when it was a free release/demo) and I'm finding myself drawn in more than ever before.

So, that's my single real suggestion, hopefully it gets noticed enough that it makes a difference.

Thanks for the vote if you made one, and please reply if you have anything to add to the discussion.

 

[EnerJay]

I'm a little unsure as to what exactly you mean by procedural? since we already have corner blocks and ramps which you can use.. unless I'm missing something? do you want the game to fill in the corners when needed? or do you just want more *edit* procedurally generated *edit* shapes?

 

[Bad-Habit]

Honestly, I don't know if its possible at this stage to do, but what if you had a shape you carved out, and then you gave it a designation. That designation could be any of the logic blocks you currently use. I explained further the possibilities on the former thread. But the main points are: Armor, Utility/Creation usability, and Artistic range.

This would absolutely change how armor is done theoretically. In fact, it'd probably change how a lot of things are done. In essence, its simply a more advanced building mechanic, that would give you more shapes to use, and more possibilities therein.

I could, say, make a really pointy missile out of parts that do scaled penetration damage against blocks it hits, based on the angle of attack and the "pointy-ness" of the piece. It doesn't blow up as loud, but it can easily eat up the inside of a ship simply because it gets in there.
[DOUBLEPOST=1452240998,1452240863][/DOUBLEPOST]What you would do, is select the shape type, give it dimensions in terms of blocks, and be able to paste it out like a normal block.

 

[EnerJay]

That makes sense, thank you.

Technically this would need to replace the current system though? since you mentioned that if you want a wall you'd select a cubic shape and enter the dimensions and then you'd have a wall.. so what would be the use of the current system? maybe as something like a default? I'm just running through ideas not really asking a question haha

 

[Bad-Habit]

Yeah, I didn't want to get my hopes up to high, and I don't want to stress ya'll out on doing the impossible.

The main point is that there needs to be a batch way of putting out objects, but having the "one by one" system, cant be replaced, its too important to micro the blocks like that for most space intensive creations.

I just wanted the idea to be considered c:

 

[EnerJay]

I'm going to say maybe because i like the system as it is now but your idea could also be cool.. so I'll be sitting the fence on this one sorry mate

 

[NeonSturm]

I've looked at a small number of voxel-based games, and I'd list this one near the top (a tie between two actually) of my list for potential beyond what people could ever dream of ever experiencing... but none of them (so far) have ever seemed to consider the possibility of making procedural corners, inverse corners, triangular prisms, or squared pyramids. Everything is always a static block, or corner... rigid. Even in Space Engineers or From The Depths, building blocks are always set, and there is no room for true building exploration.

Have you looked at VoxelFarm-Engine?
There is also another dis-continued game using voxels as fillers/collison and renders a seem-less texture on top of it. You build boxels, but see voxels and shapes.

 

[jayman38]

I'm not sure I understand the OP completely, but I would love the smoother angles that procedural building would give me.

I am imagining the advanced-build-mode circles reforming into polygonal circles.
Current advanced-build circles:

naturally turning into....

Planetary surfaces:

turn into more naturally-smooth heightmaps...

Master builders have done amazing things with shapes on ships. This would make those ships near-movie quality. (Well, at least mid-90s FMV CGI quality...)

 

[NeonSturm]

The grass-surfaces look very nice. I haven't considered that yet.
This image makes it easy to imagine random ramps on most likely spots and some on more unlikely … another surface generation step.

About the second, Don't let The Cat out of the "Boxel" Schema likes to stay his Boxel it, for now.

I have the feeling, we need a whole documentation to compare the efficiency of code of advanced physics and especially the build-tools for them before it changes.
And then you can do it yourself too (then = when you are already able to compare performance)

 

[Bad-Habit]

The gist of what I propose is new shapes... now how extensive that becomes is up to the devs, but I propose a procedural/player chosen generation of said 3D shapes, namely: corners, inverse corners, square corners, and ramps. The implementation of these different shapes, theoretically creates an additional level of which both planets are generated, and how people build ships.

I was specifying mainly ship building as to that is what this game does best, and it would be easiest to implement as such, but if it were to spread to planet/asteroid, generation, that is another layer of depth into the game.

Surfaces would be more "smooth" and appear less blocky on the surface, while mainly actually being very rigid shapes underneath. Texture work, mapping, and other utilities become more complex, but as a result, more precise. It actually may become more intuitive as time goes on.

Technically I'm being very general about how the new shapes would be implemented. You could have a system where blocks are automatically placed, based on other block placement, but that is not as effective as giving the player the tools to create those shapes and place them. If people can make those shapes, they can use them however they see fit, there is not a boundary as to what shapes you can place where, and therefore, there becomes a revolution in creative assets.

Another aspect I brought to the table, is programmable shapes. After you have made the shape, or group of shapes, you can then give it a purpose, like, turning it into a logic block, armored hull, or a monitor. The stats for what the sum of all the shapes do to affect goes as follows: For a standard block, the modifier is 1, so if it is armored hull and and the HP is 100, it remains the same. For a corner, 1/4 the size of a block, the modifier is 1/4, so the armored hull would be 25 HP.

If we expanded into thrusters, a larger thruster would have a scaling increase in power vs size. Easiest way is making the maximum thrust output be the number of blocks the thrusters encompass put to a power (and then devided?). A thruster of one block, has a modifier of 1, so it remains the same. A thruster block (or series of blocks) that equals the size of a 2x2 cube has a modifier of or 4^2, or 16. It can output 16 times the thrust of a 1x1 block.

 

[NeonSturm]

Bad-Habit I think you search in the wrong game for these features.
Please notify me too if you find a game mixing in-game-building, logic, rails, … and what you suggest.