Pirates VS Griefers

[FlyingDebris]

Please google the definition of a war.

War is almost never mutual.

I understand this may be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but starmade is not real life.

 

[Comradecolonel]

Please google the definition of a war.

War is almost never mutual.

war = a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state.

That seems pretty mutual to me. Pretty sure if war isn't mutual its called rape.

 

[HeartUponSleeve]

I understand this may be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but starmade is not real life.

war = a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state.

That seems pretty mutual to me. Pretty sure if war isn't mutual its called rape.

So your both telling me that in both StarMade and real life, if an entity wished to declare war on another entity, they have to nicely ask the other entity if they are OK with it and if they say no they war is cannot be declared?

FlyingDebris if this is your mentality, then I suppose this explains why you do nothing to contribute to the factions scene other than flamebait.

Comradecolonel, I am pretty sure the US did not ask Germany and Japan before they invaded during World War 2

So my statement stands, There is no such thing as Griefing in PVP
[doublepost=1468173735,1468173465][/doublepost]

Real life war isn't the same as Starmade war.

Whats the difference then?

 

[Reilly Reese]

I am pretty sure the US did not ask Germany and Japan before they invaded during World War 2

I'm also fairly certain they didn't just sit there outside the U.S.'s respawn point and actually left after the attack.

 

[HeartUponSleeve]

You're not supposed to take a game that seriously ._.
With what I can get from your posts it sounds like you see a war in Starmade as if it was a war in real life. That is not how you play a videogame. That is simply not fun for anyone.
A war in starmade is about shooting at each other virtually and have fun blowing each others ships to bits, a real war is about killing human beings, taking a life, about gaining something the other country has.
If you can't tell the difference between a war in a game and a war in real life then you seriously need to go see a psychiatrist and possible get thrown in an asylum for the insane.

Correct, StarMade wars are about fun, and the wars Vaygr fight are very fun.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Correct, StarMade wars are about fun, and the wars Vaygr fight are very fun.

LMAO there hasn't been an actual war in ages. All you guys do is sit around killing serversiders and defactioning their HBs.

The last war tbh was the Mutiny War.

 

[Gonzalo]

patrols

ineffective

of claim stuff

and when all claims are destroyed?

equally boring for you.

ai is your friend.

 

[Comradecolonel]

So your both telling me that in both StarMade and real life, if an entity wished to declare war on another entity, they have to nicely ask the other entity if they are OK with it and if they say no they war is cannot be declared?

FlyingDebris if this is your mentality, then I suppose this explains why you do nothing to contribute to the factions scene other than flamebait.

Comradecolonel, I am pretty sure the US did not ask Germany and Japan before they invaded during World War 2

So my statement stands, There is no such thing as Griefing in PVP
[doublepost=1468173735,1468173465][/doublepost]

Whats the difference then?

I'm talking about actual war not the political declaration of war. If you are fighting that generally means two sides against one another. If that is so then both sides would be armed. If both sides are armed and ready to fight that sounds pretty mutual. Countries have been invaded before with no warning, but that generally isn't called a war because only one side is armed and applying force.

To say that someone who is spawn camping is having a "war" with someone makes no sense. I actually understand what the OP is talking about here. There are plenty of players that just ride around looking for defenseless single man faction and blow them up solely for a self-esteem boost. They then claim that they are pirates and if the server allows that they can keep being douches. I don't see why anyone would want people who are intentionally malicious to other players.

I think in the future starmade should have some built in karma system that makes huge fleets spawn near you as long as you are being a master douche. That would be fine by me!

 

[sayerulz]

War in real life tends to be a one-sided roflstomp that is only fun for the weapons manufacturers that own the politicians that start them.

This is not fun in games. One-sided rolfstomp for no reason =/= PvP.

 

[Lukwan]

Schine has plans for formal arena-contests so there will be mechanics in place for the community to set up a server with a range of PvP options.

Yo Hartoponsleeve ...I notice you have nothing to say on this subject. Care to chime in on alternative PvP concepts or do you prefer to simply repeat your grief-denial as if it was helping to further the discussion? That is what the OP is trying to accomplish; an exchange of ideas, not soap-boxing our own agendas.

 

[Edymnion]

Lets be honest. There is no difference between pirates and greifers.

"But we're pirates" is just an easy cover for griefers to grief with impunity.

 

[Edymnion]

This is not fun in games. One-sided rolfstomp for no reason =/= PvP.

Agreed. Its not true PvP unless either side has a reasonable chance of winning. One side being able to roll over the other with no fear of losing is griefing, pure and simple.

 

[Mr.Steam]

How about requiring a formal declaration of war before being allowed to destroy another factions stuff. Once one faction declares war on another faction a countdown timer starts, say one hour or even one day. You would not be allowed to attack another until the timer has expired. This allows the other side to either:

A) Negotiate a treaty.
B) Prepare to fight back.
C) Run away and hide.

It seems like the honorable thing to do.

 

[Winterhome]

Lets be honest. There is no difference between pirates and greifers.

"But we're pirates" is just an easy cover for griefers to grief with impunity.

oh, go away

we all know you prefer singleplayer

 

[Edymnion]

oh, go away

we all know you prefer singleplayer

I don't do single player at all, actually. Nice try though.

 

[Lukwan]

I have been researching PvP Vs Griefing on Google. This is a hot topic for all games and even more so for games that focus on building.
Blizzard reports that 25% of their customer service calls for WoW are for in-game griefing. Games with official Massive multiplayer servers may choose to run two different servers: one for Cut-throat players where anything goes and one for Regulated PvP...as in with rules governing PvP.

According to the Devs Starmade is meant to appeal to a wide range of play-styles. So...
...this topic is absolutely worth discussing.

We already know that some players want to fight on a Faction-PvP cut-throat server. There is nothing stopping them from doing so and no new rules or updates are required. No rules is low maintenance. There are, however, Many other play-styles that people want to explore and setup servers for. It is these that we are here to discuss. One style is not mutually exclusive to any other style.

 

[Bladeriker]

I have seen this kind of topic more than once in my many years of playing varying forms of MMO's and PvP type games, and there is a difference between PvP and Griefing, but the very concept of PvP is considered to be Griefing to some. So with that said.

PvP is by its nature a play style of opportunity, striking when the "Irons Hot" so to speak which looks to maximize gain verse what will be lost in the venture. For the most part in PvP when one player attacks another there should be some form of resistance even if that resistance is to run away, and yes being attacked while building or mining sucks, but that is the nature of this play style.

Griefing comes in many forms and stems from PvP in that it is also an opportunistic play style, but the major difference is that there is no intent for true PvP just one player camping, harassing, or just plain annoying another player, or worse yet trying to get the attacked player to leave the server for reasons not specified (We know this happens). It is one thing to declare war on someone and openly fight them, and conquered them wiping their faction out, it is even more epic for them to fight to the bitter end, maybe even causing a truce or alliance to be formed. For the most part with Griefing there is very little intent to gain resources, Alliances, or broker any form of player interplay and more of an intent to annoy or harass. I should know as I have been on both sides of Griefing in MMORPG's, (A vicious Cycle if you ask me), when I chose to grief it was with the express intent to ruin someone's day, and usually after I had someone camp me to the point I logged off. Then I would log back in and the first poor soul I found would suffer for the indiscretions of my harasser. Thus I was no better than the person who had made my life miserable. Simply put Griefing is a form of PvP, but it is PvP with the intent of annoying, harassing, or just plain ruining someone's day.

The Pirate/Raider play style is also an Opportunistic play style, with the intent to gain resources through intimidation, raiding, or protection (Mob style Criminal Empires. ect). The concept here is to have someone else do the work while the Pirate/raider turns a profit with as little effort as possible. Thus the Pirate/Raider has no desire to wipe out a faction that it can benefit from, and most of the time will not hassle a faction that is not seen as holding any value. (Though I would make this distinction)

 

[Sgtwisky]

well said Bladeriker.

 

[Lecic]

There's no such thing as griefing on an open PvP server as long as you're following the rules.

Griefing is breaking the rules to harm another player. Does it follow the rules? It's not griefing. Since griefing is different on any server, trying to define a difference between it and piracy is pointless and stupid, since every server is going to have different rules.

Agreed. Its not true PvP unless either side has a reasonable chance of winning. One side being able to roll over the other with no fear of losing is griefing, pure and simple.

Then why do you think boarding is griefing, despite the ship having such a massive advantage over the astronaut? Wouldn't that make the ship the griefer?

 

[Az14el]

I think staying within the rules & not attacking offline factions is the best you could do to not be considered "griefing"
But then some people really don't like losing blocks, and will talk a lot of shit, and admins/other players aren't perfect, they'll probably listen to that considering the pirate is pretty much always the aggressor. If the word griefing comes up then they're already at a disadvantage for being the one who shot first.

Reward is one thing that should set pirates apart from random griefers, piracy assumes they're actually gaining something. If it's just blowing up a starter ship or ganking random noobs around spawn for fun, then I might see that as griefing (however said randoms may have deserved it and I wouldn't know).

Then the power of the player/faction might matter, a large faction with loads of members and strong ships repeatedly targeting and destroying the work of an obviously weaker faction that has no real way to fight back is just dumb, IRL they'd simply be defeated/forced to surrender, that's how it goes. But in game it's just ruining peoples experiences and the better option is often to just stop playing for a while/leave the server, nobody really wants that.
This I would also consider griefing.

In addition to abusing gamebreaking mechanics (as in anything resulting in effectively immortal ships, or abuse of lag for an advantage/to harass someone)