Pierce/Punch Difference

[-Moose-]

Hello Community,

Quick question; what is the difference between pierce and punch effects? I tried searching for an answer but apparently the effect was changed at some point and I can't get a solid answer. I've done some testing myself with a 300 damage cannon with 100% efficiency and couldn't tell the difference.

Follow up question, is one strictly better?

 

[Keptick]

With a cannon that size you won't see a difference since the projectiles don't have enough damage to properly destroy blocks.

Pierce applies a percentage of damage to blocks behind the first on it hit (100% to the first block, 75% to the second, etc. It can destroy up to 5 or 6 blocks in a row).

Punch-through give the projectile the ability to keep on going if it has damage left. For example, a 1000 damage projectile being fired at a cube of 100hp blocks would penetrate (and destroy) 10 blocks. Basically, the projectile has a damage buffer, each block that it hits subtracts HP from the buffer. As long as there is "damage" left in the buffer the projectile will keep going.

Pierce is more useful if your individual projectiles deal less damage than necessary to destroy the block they are hitting (So I'd say under 400 damage). For anything above that punch-through is better.

 

[WarmasterRaptor]

With a cannon that size you won't see a difference since the projectiles don't have enough damage to properly destroy blocks.

Pierce applies a percentage of damage to blocks behind the first on it hit (100% to the first block, 75% to the second, etc. It can destroy up to 5 or 6 blocks in a row).

Punch-through give the projectile the ability to keep on going if it has damage left. For example, a 1000 damage projectile being fired at a cube of 100hp blocks would penetrate (and destroy) 10 blocks. Basically, the projectile has a damage buffer, each block that it hits subtracts HP from the buffer. As long as there is "damage" left in the buffer the projectile will keep going.

Pierce is more useful if your individual projectiles deal less damage than necessary to destroy the block they are hitting (So I'd say under 400 damage). For anything above that punch-through is better.

So, small dmg, stable dps = pierce better

Big alpha = punch-through

I got that right?

 

[SilentRider_14]

The weapons are theoretically supposed to have been changed according to

http://starmadedock.net/threads/a-simple-graph-for-weapon-linking.3751/

both weapons are granted puncture which is punch-through's old ability

punch-through ignore % of armor at cost of some block dps
pierce does increased dmg against blocks but less against shield

 

[Keptick]

So, small dmg, stable dps = pierce better

Big alpha = punch-through

I got that right?

Yep, using pierce on a small weapon actually makes it cause more damage to blocks.

 

[-Moose-]

With a cannon that size you won't see a difference since the projectiles don't have enough damage to properly destroy blocks.

Pierce applies a percentage of damage to blocks behind the first on it hit (100% to the first block, 75% to the second, etc. It can destroy up to 5 or 6 blocks in a row).

Punch-through give the projectile the ability to keep on going if it has damage left. For example, a 1000 damage projectile being fired at a cube of 100hp blocks would penetrate (and destroy) 10 blocks. Basically, the projectile has a damage buffer, each block that it hits subtracts HP from the buffer. As long as there is "damage" left in the buffer the projectile will keep going.

I've read this before, but I've had my pierce shoot through WAY more than 5-6 blocks, in fact in some rounds it's gone through more than the punch has, I'm talking 10-20 ish on 100% efficiency (I don't have the wreck in front of me right now, but still WAY more than 6 blocks).

Again it seems like there was no visible difference between the two in terms of blocks destroyed.

The weapons are theoretically supposed to have been changed according to

http://starmadedock.net/threads/a-simple-graph-for-weapon-linking.3751/

both weapons are granted puncture which is punch-through's old ability

I'll have to check this out later, thanks!

 

[Keptick]

I've read this before, but I've had my pierce shoot through WAY more than 5-6 blocks, in fact in some rounds it's gone through more than the punch has, I'm talking 10-20 ish on 100% efficiency (I don't have the wreck in front of me right now, but still WAY more than 6 blocks).

Again it seems like there was no visible difference between the two in terms of blocks destroyed.



I'll have to check this out later, thanks!

Now that you mention it, I think that the pierce effect was changed to a punch-through effect because there was some bugs with the pierce effect. Because what you just described shouldn't happen.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

With a cannon that size you won't see a difference since the projectiles don't have enough damage to properly destroy blocks.

Pierce applies a percentage of damage to blocks behind the first on it hit (100% to the first block, 75% to the second, etc. It can destroy up to 5 or 6 blocks in a row).

Punch-through give the projectile the ability to keep on going if it has damage left. For example, a 1000 damage projectile being fired at a cube of 100hp blocks would penetrate (and destroy) 10 blocks. Basically, the projectile has a damage buffer, each block that it hits subtracts HP from the buffer. As long as there is "damage" left in the buffer the projectile will keep going.

Pierce is more useful if your individual projectiles deal less damage than necessary to destroy the block they are hitting (So I'd say under 400 damage). For anything above that punch-through is better.

That would be the old mechanic, The system was changed recently and I've been meaning to looking into it. Peirce and Punch now share a single piercing mechanic. Peirce has reduced damage to shields and at 100% will do zero shield damage. Punch is listed as doing reduced block damage but I am unsure as to the extent of this damage reduction.

 

[Glutton]

That would be the old mechanic, The system was changed recently and I've been meaning to looking into it. Peirce and Punch now share a single piercing mechanic. Peirce has reduced damage to shields and at 100% will do zero shield damage. Punch is listed as doing reduced block damage but I am unsure as to the extent of this damage reduction.

Oh thats interesting. So having two settings of cannons, one for shields and one for cannons, would be needed now. There are better shield drains than punch though, right?

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

This is buggy and still in need of balance. The damage reduction aspect of punch doesn't seem to be working and pierce needs a huge buff as 100% vs 0% shield damage doesn't make up for the 75% vs 100% hull damage

Peirce: 0% shields 100% hull
Punch 100% shield 75% hull

 

[Qweesdy]

Oh thats interesting. So having two settings of cannons, one for shields and one for cannons, would be needed now. There are better shield drains than punch though, right?

I've been wondering how the shield drain beam compares to other weapons designed for damaging an enemy's shields. Because it charges your own shields at the same time, I can imagine it being a formidable choice for straight "ship vs ship" fights.

Sadly, I haven't done any testing (partly because pirates have been broken since shield regen blocks were added - they have no shields because they have no shield regen).

 

[MrFURB]

Punch-through has up to a 50% weakness against armor, making heavy armor blocks absorb an immense amount of damage from punch-through weapons. Theoretically you could stop a massive punch weapon with a passive hull hardener and two blocks of hardened hull.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Punch-through has up to a 50% weakness against armor, making heavy armor blocks absorb an immense amount of damage from punch-through weapons. Theoretically you could stop a massive punch weapon with a passive hull hardener and two blocks of hardened hull.

I am definitely getting some discrepancies I need to look into.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

Pierce can't damage shields, therefore it is useless.

 

[MrFURB]

Pierce can't damage shields, therefore it is useless.

It's up to specialization, really. Considering that most people don't go with multilayer heavy armor, punch will almost always do something to the enemy.
Pierce of the other hand... It's highly specialized. No reasonable amount of armor or blocks will stop something with both a punch affect and x2 modifier to block damage.

If you're looking to make cannons capable of finishing off an opponent's vitals without wrecking their ship with explosives, you'd go with pierce if you have two separate weapon systems and punch if it's one well-rounded weapon.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

It's up to specialization, really. Considering that most people don't go with multilayer heavy armor, punch will almost always do something to the enemy.
Pierce of the other hand... It's highly specialized. No reasonable amount of armor or blocks will stop something with both a punch affect and x2 modifier to block damage.

If you're looking to make cannons capable of finishing off an opponent's vitals without wrecking their ship with explosives, you'd go with pierce if you have two separate weapon systems and punch if it's one well-rounded weapon.

Except punch and pierce seem to do identical damage to hull.