Need a brief review or explanation of a recent moderation action

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    In the linked thread above, DukeofRealms deleted a few posts yesterday that strayed off-topic. At first I thought the action was to be expected after seeing that it had been taken, but after reviewing the latest dev post, which states, "Additionally, we no longer delete most rule violating content (Tier II and below). Instead, a notice is displayed on the content stating the rule it breaks (or broke). Because of this, warnings are also needed for old content to display this notice," I began to doubt the legitimacy of the action.

    Could a moderator please briefly review the action taken and give an assessment of whether the deletion was justified and legitimate? I am not here to attack anyone or spread hate. I would like a clear answer of whether off-topic content is meant to be deleted and an explanation of why or why not. The off-topic posts are categorized in Tier I, which the above quotation mentions will not be deleted in the future, so I would like a clear explanation of what rule-violating content isn't included in "most" of Tier II and below so I and the rest of the community can understand what should and should not be deleted.
     
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    DukeofRealms

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    Offtopic
    Threads of discussion on StarMade Dock should adhere to the original purpose of the thread’s creation. Any user who has created a thread has the right to lock or modify their thread properties by notifying a member of staff. In addition, members are advised to keep on topic when replying to a thread. Users found to be deliberately changing a thread’s original topic un-organically (forcefully changing the topic) will be subject to discipline at the community staff’s discretion.
    Spam
    Spam consists of one or multiple people repeating the same thing (or very similar things) over and over in a very small amount of time. Spamming will be met with a removal of offending posts and the appropriate action taken against the user. (See warning point documentation).
    Typically, we'd only warn a post with Spam/Off Topic if it was consistent or purposeful. In this case, the discussion derailed for a number of posts into a topic that wasn't the purpose of the original thread.

    Additionally, this content specifically belongs in this section: Rules/Moderation . Discussion of moderation and rules often devolves into witch-hunts, character assassinations and general hostility, which is material we don't tolerate on SMD. The purpose of that section (and the appeals form) is to provide a structured system that aims to discuss procedures and rules in a civil matter, for the purpose of improving StarMade Dock for all.

    For threads that are getting derailed, our procedure as according to our moderation guidelines in the past has always been to refrain from awarding warning points for Spam/Off Topic and to soft-delete (remove from public view). This helps get the thread back on track, instead of winding down what could potentially be a long and off-topic conversation.

    Additionally, we no longer delete most rule violating content (Tier II and below). Instead, a notice is displayed on the content stating the rule it breaks (or broke). Because of this, warnings are also needed for old content to display this notice.
    However, as you'll see above, this procedure of deleting content that derails a thread contradicts our aim to not delete Tier II content and below, instead display a notice of what warning it violated. As we have not defined what to do with "natural" derailment vs Offtopic/Spam, I've undeleted the posts as we have not made clear how we'll be handling derailment. I personally don't think we should be sending out warnings for natural derailment (it happens).

    There are two main issues I see related to this, that need to be resolved.
    • Tier I warnings have the same point structure as Tier II warnings. I don't think Tier I warnings deserve the same points, and would much prefer if they were 0 for first and second offence, 5 for third and up.
    • Warning content and displaying a public notice could work well for most Tier II and below warnings. This could provide the community examples of content that's against the rules and more transparency. However, for Spam/Off Topic content, I see no positive benefits. In regards to derailment, I don't think it will get the thread back on track and (especially for Spam) populates the thread with offtopic or spam conversation, making a thread harder to read.
    A potential solution to my second point that would keep both transparency and threads clean, would be to delete Spam/Off Topic content (and potentially other warnings), but allow user's to see deleted content if they wish (by clicking a button).

    You've brought up some good points, that's something we've definitely missed and have yet to clarify.
     
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    I'm glad this was resolved smoothly. I agree that the Tier I punishments are unreasonably harsh, and could very easily brew up some discontent. Your suggestion for three 0 point preliminary warnings also sounds like a good plan. As for derailing, it is a problem at times, and a still-viewable soft delete would likely work best; that or a simple thread compression in which the off-topic content is compiled into a single dropdown for the sake of keeping things organized would work. The conversation did drift away from its purpose very quickly, but a deletion would generally add to the problem. The rules are newly rewritten, so a little hiccup in a few places is to be expected. Good luck with moderation!
     
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    Nauvran

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    Typically, we'd only warn a post with Spam/Off Topic if it was consistent or purposeful. In this case, the discussion derailed for a number of posts into a topic that wasn't the purpose of the original thread.

    Additionally, this content specifically belongs in this section: Rules/Moderation . Discussion of moderation and rules often devolves into witch-hunts, character assassinations and general hostility, which is material we don't tolerate on SMD. The purpose of that section (and the appeals form) is to provide a structured system that aims to discuss procedures and rules in a civil matter, for the purpose of improving StarMade Dock for all.

    For threads that are getting derailed, our procedure as according to our moderation guidelines in the past has always been to refrain from awarding warning points for Spam/Off Topic and to soft-delete (remove from public view). This helps get the thread back on track, instead of winding down what could potentially be a long and off-topic conversation.



    However, as you'll see above, this procedure of deleting content that derails a thread contradicts our aim to not delete Tier II content and below, instead display a notice of what warning it violated. As we have not defined what to do with "natural" derailment vs Offtopic/Spam, I've undeleted the posts as we have not made clear how we'll be handling derailment. I personally don't think we should be sending out warnings for natural derailment (it happens).

    There are two main issues I see related to this, that need to be resolved.
    • Tier I warnings have the same point structure as Tier II warnings. I don't think Tier I warnings deserve the same points, and would much prefer if they were 0 for first and second offence, 5 for third and up.
    • Warning content and displaying a public notice could work well for most Tier II and below warnings. This could provide the community examples of content that's against the rules and more transparency. However, for Spam/Off Topic content, I see no positive benefits. In regards to derailment, I don't think it will get the thread back on track and (especially for Spam) populates the thread with offtopic or spam conversation, making a thread harder to read.
    A potential solution to my second point that would keep both transparency and threads clean, would be to delete Spam/Off Topic content (and potentially other warnings), but allow user's to see deleted content if they wish (by clicking a button).

    You've brought up some good points, that's something we've definitely missed and have yet to clarify.
    Another big issue with posts getting deleted is that there often arent any explanation as to why. It might just say "offtopic" but what does that mean? why was it offtopic? A proper explanation to the poster would be nice when you people delete messages.
    For example I apparently had a message deleted by Alter but I cant even remember what I had written in that post, there isnt even a reason for it being deleted. Is Alter being too strict a mod again or what's happening?
     

    FlyingDebris

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    It'd sure be nice if you guys didn't shadowban people retroactively too
     
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