Multiplier block for rp ships or other uses

[blalblagoo]

I think it would be nice to have a block that could be slaved to a system and then be able to make it stronger or weaker depending on the rp values. That way you don't have to worry about systems on rp ships and can concentrate on the looks.

I think this shouldn't be something you can make in survival unless the admins make a server that way. This is so that ships that have a lot of rp interior can still fight other rp ship the have less interior but are suppose to be as strong as each other.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I hate to break this to you but RP is usually not compatible with most other play styles; with the notable exception of build servers. Most multi-player servers tend to focus on PVP which makes anyone doing RP play style ships nothing more than target practice.

I'm actually a blend of creative, RP and PVP and find that.

- Creative is best done in single player; as PVP junkies will attack you while you're trying to build. They want the thrill of the kill and do not respect creativity

- RP gets similar treatment to creative. As such, your ships are best made in single player, then imported to multi-player. You will eventually be targeted by PVP junkies unless that server has safe zones for RP.

- PVP tends be fast and sloppy with regard to design processes so a lot of players go download Skylord Luke's capitals or simply build death bricks with some light ornamentation.

While I kind of like your idea, you will most likely catch flack from members who will say things like... "No way!, I spent 15 whole minutes building this giant death brick. There's no way you should be able to match me with your 'pretty' ship with the nice interior that took you 3 weeks to design! It's not fair dammit! It's not fair!!!"

I'll be watching this thread to see what other responses you get. Good luck.

 

[Cirdanoth]

Ships can be beautiful and efficient. Mortarian employs numerous examples.
Vaygr is also upgrading the looks of their ships, without decreasing their combat efficiency.

Even an interior can be functional in pvp. The empty space helps with reducing missile damage to systems.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Given how big/powerful missiles tend to get in PVP; your spacecraft must be pretty big. You can't have that much empty space without additional size.

 

[nightrune]

This is similar to a thread I started a long time ago. Maybe you could expand on it.
Read by Council - Playable Races

 

[blalblagoo]

i am thinking this is for like servers that are more rp then building. One where someone can build a story and you and some friends can go acting out that story. Not really building anything just having fun playing a pebuilt scenario.

 

[Cirdanoth]

Given how big/powerful missiles tend to get in PVP; your spacecraft must be pretty big. You can't have that much empty space without additional size.

Empty space rarely is a disadvantage. More often than not, it provides an advantage if placed right.
Empty space, after all, doesn't add extra mass, or extra blocks for passive systems to protect. It does however absorb some missile damage.

Honestly, having parts of your ship which are 'expendable', isn't a bad thing.
Taking some damage isn't bad either, as long as your systems survive and those systems are able to beat the opponent's systems.

If you have an interior which shields some of the core systems of your ship, while your opponent doesn't.. You'll be damaging systems, while he's damaging expendable space.

 

[Napther]

Having such block cannot be enforced; And some "hybrid" ship designs that are "feature complete" for RP but are in fact efficient killing warmachines of Doom will just use these blocks to ramp up their power. For example a lot of ships for RP COMPLETE LACK WEAPON EFFECT/TERTIARY. The sheer effect of replacing some cannons with the Punchthrough effect is quite frankly massive VS "hard targets" with ADV armour (IE, a lot of PvP ships).

Its not a matter of Artificially increasing the power of RP ships, its about the BUILDER optimising them. In fact, many RP ships are tanky as hell because their systems are not overly centralised. And Open spaces, as mentioned above, reduce rocket effectiveness.

Yes, a Pvp "Brick" will always beat a similar sized RP ship in terms of X-y-z and to some extent mass. When it comes to a certain point the amount of RP Interior on a Ship becomes not as much a burden for Power regen and power capacity and as such with a well thought out weapons system can go toe-to-toe and "Give back what it receives" in damage.

Other things to note is if the vessel is AI or not. If its an AI a certain amount of "stability" needs to be put in; and attacking them causes them to bug out when things undock; nor are they able to use defencive effects or move fast and erratically to get out of gun sights

A RP-player-piloted vessel can use defensive pierce and punch to effect and even Ion effect. A Player completely ignores things undocking from the surface of the ship and keeps firing. And can Jam and Juke to get the upper hand.

Probably the biggest difference is the size of turrets both types of vessel operate, but thats besides the point here

 

[Lukwan]

I hate to break this to you but RP is usually not compatible with most other play styles; with the notable exception of build servers. Most multi-player servers tend to focus on PVP which makes anyone doing RP play style ships nothing more than target practice.

While I don't argue that this is true, at this stage of development, I would caution against drawing conclusions about the ratio of PvP to 'Other' servers. We choose how to explore this game based on the State-of-Play at this very moment in development. If there are modes of PvP that we would like to try out that don't involve Cut-throat, no-holds-barred then we will have to wait for for the Developers to design alternative modes and implement them in-game. Until then I (and I assume many others) are avoiding MP in general.

What we have now is a false dichotomy of PvP or Build. In truth, there can be a wide range of options between these two extremes. Only when these options are made a reality will we be able say that we have sampled what the community is doing with the game. By way of example I offer up Faction-Modules. Until Shine refined the ranking and permissions within factions...how many players avoided Factions altogether, waiting for the game to 'mature'?

 

[blalblagoo]

I do not want these on normal multiplayer servers theses should be for rp scenarios where the rp ship isn't as strong as it should be or maybe the rp ships is too strong for the scenario you want to play so you weaken it. I am thinking the multiplier block be just a admin thing so you can have more options in making your rp accurate battles. like star wars and star trek can't really make some of the small ships as powerful as they should be because of all the details needed.

 

[Napther]

I do not want these on normal multiplayer servers theses should be for rp scenarios where the rp ship isn't as strong as it should be or maybe the rp ships is too strong for the scenario you want to play so you weaken it. I am thinking the multiplier block be just a admin thing so you can have more options in making your rp accurate battles. like star wars and star trek can't really make some of the small ships as powerful as they should be because of all the details needed.

If this is on something that you are doing in making a server then you can modify the weapons yourself. Punch through and Overdrive buff smaller weapons, Piercing effect reduces the damage VS shields, EMP, Stop/push/pull effects reduce both Shield and block damage. The systems are there, you just have to be creative and not overly lazy.

As for RP ships, there is a big difference between an exact replica/model of the ship in game, a Functioning copy of that said ship, and a Systems-heavy one. Do people really care on an RP ship that there isnt 100 (Currently) unusable crew rooms on such a tiny build, and only room for 5 people on the bridge, 5 in engineering, and 5 stationed elsewhere etc. So long as on an RP ship there is sufficient Accommodation to cover the "systems" placed down then people are fine. At a minimum Builds would need:
Crew Quarters and/ Officers quarters. Maybe simple bathrooms too
Not all ships need a medbay, but even then you dont need room for all the crew at once in them
Recreation and/or eating space. Perhaps a small Kitchen
Airlocks and/or USD capable
Some sort of fake engineering areas on anything larger than 1k mass
Cargo storage (Food/supplies, etc)
Bridge/tactical Bridge / Cockpit
Sufficient corridor space to go A to B

The art is not in filling the entire ship with RP space. That space is a massive premium on a space vessel. So condensing it down is vital for military vessels. Civilian ships can splurge out a little for crew comfort. Its also a bad idea to take Star Trek ships as a basic model - Most starmade ships are never away from home more than a few days, a month at most Build the ship interior according to how close to civilistation it will be. Escort ships will have some of the lowest, while long range explorers some of the highest interior spaces for crew amenities.
Therefore the RP space is then transferred to Hubs and Stations for crew to wind down after a few days at the helm. Hell, Even in Elite: Dangerous the ships you fly have very little interior and are mostly Power unit, shields, FTL, etc...

...rant over...

 

[Dr. Whammy]

While I don't argue that this is true, at this stage of development, I would caution against drawing conclusions about the ratio of PvP to 'Other' servers. We choose how to explore this game based on the State-of-Play at this very moment in development. If there are modes of PvP that we would like to try out that don't involve Cut-throat, no-holds-barred then we will have to wait for for the Developers to design alternative modes and implement them in-game. Until then I (and I assume many others) are avoiding MP in general.

What we have now is a false dichotomy of PvP or Build. In truth, there can be a wide range of options between these two extremes. Only when these options are made a reality will we be able say that we have sampled what the community is doing with the game. By way of example I offer up Faction-Modules. Until Shine refined the ranking and permissions within factions...how many players avoided Factions altogether, waiting for the game to 'mature'?

As it stands now; I'm only referring to my own individual experiences and those of the players I talk to outside of open forum. As with all things in this game, your mileage may vary.

Just like you said; I'm waiting for something better to come along to both balance and enhance this system. Due to PVP being a (and possibly the) primary motivator on most servers, multi-player is no longer something I enjoy. It's far too easy to get your stuff wrecked or blockaded by someone who wants to attack you for a cheap thrill.

 

[blalblagoo]

I want to be able to build a ship a little under 100 meters that is stronger than a ship 300 meters became the ship has more advanced technology aka: higher multiplier that is the kind of role playing i am talking about.

And again this is not for normal multiplayer this is for you and some friends role playing or maybe and admin wanting killing a rule breaking player or even make some kind of boss battle type ship. This block should probability be restricted to admin use.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I think there should be a way to fix that imbalance besides just building something bigger, though I'm not fond of turning this into a level-based game. There's no skill behind simply having a higher 'level' than your opponent.

I made a suggestion involving the use of warheads to allow smaller ships to present more of a challenge. Such a thing would fit perfectly with RP. Read it at your own risk; I ended up catching a truckload of flame for it from people don't want their invincibility challenged.

 

[sayerulz]

Whammy, your shameless plugs for your thread irritate me....

But anyway, I suggested a while back that it be possible to edit the stats of ships and systems using commands, and that these edits be tied to the blueprint, so that the admin of a server could choose to make certain blueprints have different stats than they would normally. The idea was to allow for RP servers that wanted to, for instance, be a star trek server, have ships with their correct stats and encourage using pre-built blueprints.

No one was really against it, but it was also agreed that it was not a very high priority.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Whammy, your shameless plugs for your thread irritate me...

See what I mean?


sayerulz,

Your irritation is your own choice. If you don't like my thread or any references to it, don't read it or respond to it. If you really want to, you can even put me on ignore. It makes no difference to me.

(Turns flame off...)

 

[spunkiethefirst]

If it is a block limited to admin control I see no reason why this type of block should not be implemented.

 

[Lecic]

You can build an RP ship that is combat capable. Unless your ship is 90% interior, in which case, you're going to get nuked. Sorry. You shouldn't get a magic buff because you can't design a ship. If it's an RP server, tell the admins to buff weapons or something.

 

[Napther]

I want to be able to build a ship a little under 100 meters that is stronger than a ship 300 meters became the ship has more advanced technology aka: higher multiplier that is the kind of role playing i am talking about.

And again this is not for normal multiplayer this is for you and some friends role playing or maybe and admin wanting killing a rule breaking player or even make some kind of boss battle type ship. This block should probability be restricted to admin use.

then that is simple; you take the enemy ship and you gut it of weapons and nerf its shields. there is NO SUBSTITUTE For putting in your own effort to get the experience you want from the game. If something is an issue there is /shield_regen false and /Shield_outage which disable shield regen and take out the shields of the ship (Make sure you are out of your own vessel before typing it).

And as mentioned earlier, HAVING this block is a threat to any MP as people WILL find a way to get it into the game and their ships. If you want a small advanced ship to kill a massive pile of junk and scrap just wait for the fleet update. Some of the vessels are rather lacking in combat ability. Just dont piss off certain factions using certain fleets of ships or you'll get murdered by vastly superior tech and systems balance

 

[MeRobo]

Some of the vessels are rather lacking in combat ability.

I can confirm this since I've build some of said vessels.