Multiple Ship Core Types: Fighters, cap ships, flagships.

    Joined
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages
    245
    Reaction score
    68
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    • Legacy Citizen
    This suggestion basically entails the creation of some alternate ship core types.

    To use them, you press your keybind to start building a new ship. In addition to naming it, you can select which core type to use (in the event the different cores are each a different part, then those you lack would be grayed out).

    Each ship core type would have certain traits, and said traits could be altered via server configuration files if people wish. This can include what kinds of blocks are permitted to be built upon a ship in question. A given blueprint will also of course save what type of core it has into its file.

    Note: The Capital Ship Core is not to be confused with the existing plans for "capital ships." See the Flagship Core for that.



    Standard Ship Core:
    This is the core we currently have.
    -All other cores will use this (the current core) as the baseline.



    Fighter Core:
    This core is intended for small vessels. It possesses some bonuses to make it more effective, but also comes with some drawbacks as well. The following are some basic ideas on the matter. Naturally, the values could probably stand to be tweaked a bit for balance purposes. This is just a quick-and-dirty set of values.

    -Weapons from a ship with a Fighter Core are able to damage docked ships and turrets without going through their parent ship's shields, making fighters good at attacking the turrets of larger vessels (especially if they didn't put some built-in shields on their turrets).
    -Against stations, this only applies to turrets.
    -2x generation from Energy Reactors.
    -Energy generation softcap starts at 50k, and scales steeply, to the point where it should be extremely difficult to reach 200k.
    -Energy capacitors, shield generation, and shield capacity would also have a softcap for Fighter Core ships.
    -2x generation from Shield Rechargers.
    -Maximum thrust to weight ratio is 3-5 instead of 2.5, and default maximum speed is a bit higher.
    -Takes only 50% damage from all ships, except for other Fighter Core ships (fighter-core turrets on a non-fighter ship also do full damage to it).
    -Cannot receive power generation from or give power to anything it is docked to (so if used as a turret, it must supply its own power). This also applies to power capacity.
    -Does not provide shields to any objects docked to it.
    -Build Area Size in any dimension cannot exceed 100 blocks (so max dimensions are 100x100x100).

    Fighter Core vessels are limited regarding the following blocks and features:
    -Cannot use Gravity Units, Jump Inhibitors, Transporters, and maybe Scanners.
    -Are either limited to a single Jump Drive computer, or cannot use them.
    -Maybe cannot place turret-related Docking Rail blocks.

    Other notes: Since it does full damage to other fighters even as a turret, it also makes an ideal core for anti-fighter turrets. Also, due to ignoring the mothership's shields when attacking turrets (they still have to deal with the turret's built-in shields mind you), they are useful for weakening a large vessel prior to attacking it with your own large warships.



    Capital Ship Core: (not to be confused with upcoming "Capital Ships," which are covered by the Flagship Core)

    This core is to be used by vessels that are intended to be very large.
    -Energy reactors produce only half their normal power.
    -Energy generation soft cap starts a a higher value (10 million instead of 1 million?). If there is a softcap for power capacity, that is increased too.
    -Shield downtime and reboot time increased.
    -Cannot use Cloak or Radar Jammer.
    -Maximum thrust to weight ratio is 1.5 instead of 2.5, and default max speed is lower.
    -Total Structural Armor HP increased by 20%, and all blocks are considered to have 0.05 addition Block Armor.
    -They are not protected by the shields of anything they dock to, and they cannot receive power from anything docked to them.


    Other notes: The reactor nerf means you don't want to use this core for small vessels. You want to use it for something big enough to take advantage of the higher soft generation cap. The inability to be shielded by a parent vessel makes them ill-suited for use as turrets despite their increased armor.


    Capital Ship Cores would possess some additional features or block allowances, as well as some restrictions:
    -They can use Undeathinators, Plex Lifts, and maybe to be interesting, Race Gate Modules/Computers.
    -They could possibly be permitted to have either some or all of the factory modules. At the very least, the Capsule Refinery would be nice to be able to refine mined materials on the spot.






    Flagship Core:
    These can only be built by the leader of a faction. Additionally, there can only be one flagship per faction. In short, these are cores for the type of vessel that is currently being planned for development under the term "capital ships." The term "Flagship" makes more sense since you usually only have one of those, whereas fleets can easily have multiple capital ships.

    -These ships would have the same modifiers that a Capital Ship Core has, but under its own entry such that people can make them different in their server configs if they want.
    -(As is planned for "capital ships" currently) These vessels can make use of a number of blocks you can normally only place on a station, including not only the factory blocks, but also shop blocks and maybe even Shipyards and Warp gates.








    Other random ideas for cores, in the event that 3 plus a faction flagship aren't enough:

    Civilian Core: Cannot use weapons computers or support computers except the salvage beam, but gets added benefit from cargo containers and perhaps a boost to salvage beams. Potentially can also use Capsule Refinery block. Maybe has weaker effect from shields.

    Pirate Core: A core which does something piratey, I guess? Or maybe just an otherwise normal ship core with a skull and crossbones on it. Maybe its rare too. People always find some way to enjoy rare things.

    Apple Core: Maybe you want a fruity ship? Ok, but seriously, toss the darn thing into the appropriate recepticle when you are done with your apple. Are you TRYING to clog up our life support system?! *grumble grumble*
     

    Dr. Whammy

    Executive Constructologist of the United Star Axis
    Joined
    Jul 22, 2014
    Messages
    1,789
    Reaction score
    1,723
    • Thinking Positive
    • Likeable Gold
    • Legacy Citizen 9
    Nice. But you forgot the most important kind of core.
     

    Lecic

    Convicted Lancake Abuser
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages
    5,107
    Reaction score
    1,228
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 11
    Fighter Core:
    This core is intended for small vessels. It possesses some bonuses to make it more effective, but also comes with some drawbacks as well. The following are some basic ideas on the matter. Naturally, the values could probably stand to be tweaked a bit for balance purposes. This is just a quick-and-dirty set of values.

    -Weapons from a ship with a Fighter Core are able to damage docked ships and turrets without going through their parent ship's shields, making fighters good at attacking the turrets of larger vessels (especially if they didn't put some built-in shields on their turrets).
    -Against stations, this only applies to turrets.
    -2x generation from Energy Reactors.
    -Energy generation softcap starts at 50k, and scales steeply, to the point where it should be extremely difficult to reach 200k.
    -Energy capacitors, shield generation, and shield capacity would also have a softcap for Fighter Core ships.
    -2x generation from Shield Rechargers.
    -Maximum thrust to weight ratio is 3-5 instead of 2.5, and default maximum speed is a bit higher.
    -Takes only 50% damage from all ships, except for other Fighter Core ships (fighter-core turrets on a non-fighter ship also do full damage to it).
    -Cannot receive power generation from or give power to anything it is docked to (so if used as a turret, it must supply its own power). This also applies to power capacity.
    -Does not provide shields to any objects docked to it.
    -Build Area Size in any dimension cannot exceed 100 blocks (so max dimensions are 100x100x100).

    Fighter Core vessels are limited regarding the following blocks and features:
    -Cannot use Gravity Units, Jump Inhibitors, Transporters, and maybe Scanners.
    -Are either limited to a single Jump Drive computer, or cannot use them.
    -Maybe cannot place turret-related Docking Rail blocks.

    Other notes: Since it does full damage to other fighters even as a turret, it also makes an ideal core for anti-fighter turrets. Also, due to ignoring the mothership's shields when attacking turrets (they still have to deal with the turret's built-in shields mind you), they are useful for weakening a large vessel prior to attacking it with your own large warships.
    Because drones weren't already powerful enough, now they'll have twice the durability and power AND be able to take down turrets before even touching the main ship's shields? Are you unaware of how powerful drones currently are, or do you just want to make small ships even stronger so that you can pretend to be Luke Skywalker?

    Capital Ship Core: (not to be confused with upcoming "Capital Ships," which are covered by the Flagship Core)
    This core is to be used by vessels that are intended to be very large.
    -Energy reactors produce only half their normal power.
    -Energy generation soft cap starts a a higher value (10 million instead of 1 million?). If there is a softcap for power capacity, that is increased too.
    -Shield downtime and reboot time increased.
    -Cannot use Cloak or Radar Jammer.
    -Maximum thrust to weight ratio is 1.5 instead of 2.5, and default max speed is lower.
    -Total Structural Armor HP increased by 20%, and all blocks are considered to have 0.05 addition Block Armor.
    -They are not protected by the shields of anything they dock to, and they cannot receive power from anything docked to them.
    I assume this is an attempt to both
    1) Get rid of docked reactors, in combination with your other suggestion about new rail dockers, and
    2) Buff armor, which is currently perceived as weak by the general community, despite its real status as "hilariously strong."

    Docked reactors cannot go away without a proper, interesting replacement system. Armor does not need any buffs. 4000 EHP with both passives running, cheaper costs per block than shields, and serving as a massive "fuck you" to missiles mean armor would be overpowered, really, if not for the fact that it weighed so damn much.


    I am opposed to the idea of "flagships" being limited to one per faction, also. They were called capital ships for a reason in the original plans, and that's because they weren't supposed to be limited to one per faction.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Shaker
    Joined
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages
    267
    Reaction score
    63
    The last thing the game needs is a complete overhaul of the shipbuilding and combat systems (the only currently fleshed out features in the game atm)

    While I'm sure your suggestion is well thought out, from a practical standpoint I really don't think it is what the game needs right now.
     
    Joined
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages
    506
    Reaction score
    110
    Or ever. Starmades main appeal right now is the freedom you have whilst building, splitting into different hard coded "types" of ships would go against that.
     

    lupoCani

    First Citizen
    Joined
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages
    504
    Reaction score
    127
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 10
    Agreed, that is my main complaint as well. Hard-coded classification goes against the idea of a sandbox.
     
    Last edited:
    Joined
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages
    506
    Reaction score
    110
    It's also solving a problem that doesn't really exist. The balance between bigger and smaller ships currently works quite well, armour is already pretty effective, especially against missiles and there's no point in differing thrust caps, because bigger ships are already comparatively slow.
     
    Joined
    Jun 17, 2015
    Messages
    300
    Reaction score
    90
    I think it would be cool if we had cores for things like docked doors. Beyond that I don't see the point in having different cores for different types of ships. Fighters already work quite well. Cap ships are already planned. Maybe some alternative power systems or other mechanics that benefit smaller ships.

    I get that people want more freedom with their fighters but we need creative solutions not restrictive ones. Having specific types of ships would be a step backwards in my opinion.
     

    Dr. Whammy

    Executive Constructologist of the United Star Axis
    Joined
    Jul 22, 2014
    Messages
    1,789
    Reaction score
    1,723
    • Thinking Positive
    • Likeable Gold
    • Legacy Citizen 9
    While the idea is well thought out, I think it is unnecessarily complicated as well as unneeded at this stage of the game's development.

    Quite possibly the only (non-game-breaking) re-balance that would be of any relevance with regard to the "big ship vs little ship" issue would be on warheads.


    I'll be posting a thread on this soon for anyone who is interested.
     
    Last edited:
    Joined
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages
    245
    Reaction score
    68
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    • Legacy Citizen
    You guys make some good points. The fighter core especially probably needs to be nerfed, assuming we want different cores at all.

    Still, using a separate core type for the Flagship (or what we may be calling capital ships) might be a good way of handling the differences between them and other ships.

    Additionally it might still be a good idea to add another core type or two which by default are identical to the standard core (and perhaps by default disabled), but which can have their effects and allowed blocks altered by server configs, allowing servers the option to "class" their cores if they wish.
     
    Joined
    Jan 19, 2015
    Messages
    364
    Reaction score
    87
    Fighter - buffed to crazy level
    Capital - nerfed speed...

    With the above it would handicap everyone but 2 styles.
    heatseeker spammers with large ships who dont need to turn (at all with 1.5 thrust..)
    And fleet fighter players, as there block count vs effectiveness is doubled.

    Regular players would lose out due to fighters being more block effective than the norm.
     
    Joined
    Feb 25, 2016
    Messages
    1,362
    Reaction score
    268
    Interesting idea, yet against the idea of a sandbox and just simply unnecessary. We do not need different types of cores. We already have speed nerfs for large ships (Diminishing returns on thrusters), buffs for small ships (High ratios are simply easier and cheaper to achieve [For any system that uses ratios] on a small ship, as compared to larger ships. One ion effect block instead of 1.4 million), and we simply do not need a separate core for flagships. We don't need the new blocks.
    Sorry. Interesting ideas, but just no.

    Also, fighters ignoring shields? Fighters capable of possessing up to 1 million (100x100x100) blocks!?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!!?!?!?!!? You're just asking for a turret-annihilating behemoth (That is a turret itself, of course) to become commonplace. Making turrets nonviable.
    In short: WHY, OH WHY!?!?!?