Moderation - Warning Point System Overhaul

[CyberTao]

Just another question, "Ban evasion" what exactly does this mean? Like, avoiding bans with alt accounts or being careful about what you say?

Ban evasion is using an alternate account when you were banned.

 

[DukeofRealms]

just out of curiosity, where is the line between a mild personal attack and a blatant personal attack?

You guys should have a clear definition

This will come in the rewrite of the moderation guideline and changes to our Terms of Service and Rules. The Warning System is simply numbers and in some cases place holders for names. Some things will be changed when we add more detail, however that will come in a later stage. Feel free to comment on what you would want, as we haven't started on in-depth explanations just yet.
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This would mean that I am not allowed to post anything on my faction thread where I used an AA with the faction name?

We can have exceptions to rules in different areas, these will be most likely stated in a sticky and the rules.

 

[Dark-life]

Are users allowed to use bots for the purpose of digging through the forums to filter through info?

Say I wanted to read every post about my faction or a certain forum member, would it be illegal to have a bot search for them?

 

[kiddan]

Just wanted to reply to say: Thanks so much guys for helping the community prosper and be a safe place! Star-Made is my fav game, and I really love having an active forum with lots of nice people to get help from/give help to/just talk about Star-Made.

 

[Kojinus]

A computer would disagree, if these rules would be left as they stand now.

All acts of moderation have to be done manually, we don't have any automated systems like that.

Just another question, "Ban evasion" what exactly does this mean? Like, avoiding bans with alt accounts or being careful about what you say?

Ban evasion is if your main account gets banned and you continue to cause trouble on an alternate account.

Please explain the difference between the 2 first "spam" on the list, same for "advertising" and "excessive profanity"(the excessive may be a little overkill on the latter)[or is the 1st mention of each item just a "free" strike to catch minor mistakes?]
On another note, how are already existing off-topic posts being handled? will they be ignored?

The way the first 2 "spam" bits work is for your first offense with spamming you will receive one point, and for every future spamming offense you will receive 2 points.

Advertising will be explained in a future document, but it's basically anything NOT StarMade related (Servers, fan services, fan websites) will be considered advertising and could potentially lead to a strike. This does not include personal work that a user would like to show off, as long as it's posted in Off-Topic.

In regards to profanity, a little swearing here and there is okay but if you can't control your language on a regular basis then we'll have an issue.

 

[BDLS]

So points aren't going to be assigned retroactively right

 

[CyberTao]

So points aren't going to be assigned retroactively right

I imagine most of the old events that gained people some points are old enough that the points would have expired by now if you weren't already banned by the old system. The worse you would get is an administrative review if you were very naughty I would expect (provided they haven't already had words).

Plus, you'd need a mod who'd want to look through all that all toxin, good luck on that front.

 

[MrFURB]

Plus, you'd need a mod who'd want to look through all that all toxin

All part of a balanced breakfast.

 

[Megacrafter127]

All acts of moderation have to be done manually, we don't have any automated systems like that.

I never claimed that, HOWEVER, an easy way to fix loopholes is to make the rules computerproof(as computers are generally too stupid to decide anything on their own, unless you tell them what they should do under which circumstances).

Are users allowed to use bots for the purpose of digging through the forums to filter through info?

As long as your bot doesn't post anything, nor launches a DDoS unto the dock, you SHOULD be fine. (There is no way to separate a bot from a human, apart from the reaction-speed[link-following], or the bot's signature, which you can set to mimic a standard browser's signature, if you know how)

 

[Nerixel]

As long as your bot doesn't post anything, nor launches a DDoS unto the dock, you WILL be fine.

You shouldn't guarantee this, even I don't know the answer for sure (will need to come from an admin). My unofficial thought, however, is: Search engines do it for indexing, there shouldn't be a problem for users essentially doing the same thing.

Note here: http://starmadedock.net/online/?type=robot
Bots specifically are listed. To avoid an automatic DDoS block (I don't know if this exists, just it probably does), I suggest you find out how a bot registers with Xenforo and do the same thing.

 

[Tydeth]

One thing that's interesting about one of the clarifying answers, is Kojinus answer for Ban Evasion. Most places label Ban Evasion as any use of an alt to continue posting/playing at all after a ban, while his response implies a banned user may continue posting on a new account so long as he/she does not misbehave in any of the threads. However, one of the points criteria listed in the OP is "Ban on AA" which results in permaban on the account, so just having any account receiving a ban should result in permanent eviction of any alt, possibly the new ones as well as the preexisting ones. Speaking of that point criteria, the duration of the ban that would qualify all alts for permaban isn't defined, implying even the 5-point week timeout will result in permanent alt removal. Is that the case?

 

[MacThule]

I like that thought has been invested in a comprehensive schema for moderation, but it seems to have already invited a lot of debate regarding definitions. I imagine that such debate will be rife during actual application.

 

[CyberTao]

One thing that's interesting about one of the clarifying answers, is Kojinus answer for Ban Evasion. Most places label Ban Evasion as any use of an alt to continue posting/playing at all after a ban, while his response implies a banned user may continue posting on a new account so long as he/she does not misbehave in any of the threads. However, one of the points criteria listed in the OP is "Ban on AA" which results in permaban on the account, so just having any account receiving a ban should result in permanent eviction of any alt, possibly the new ones as well as the preexisting ones. Speaking of that point criteria, the duration of the ban that would qualify all alts for permaban isn't defined, implying even the 5-point week timeout will result in permanent alt removal. Is that the case?

There are a few alternate accounts that exist already, but are not used the same as others, the Tartaran Empire for example uses a shared Alt account for their recruitment thread. It is an alt account, but it exists for a reason that differs from most cases in other forums, simply being banned on 1 account should not warrant the perm-banning of this alt.

I think it's more or less trying to give themselves some wiggle-room, because there is sometimes circumstances where X doesn't always equal Y.

 

[Tydeth]

There are a few alternate accounts that exist already, but are not used the same as others, the Tartaran Empire for example uses a shared Alt account for their recruitment thread. It is an alt account, but it exists for a reason that differs from most cases in other forums, simply being banned on 1 account should not warrant the perm-banning of this alt.

I think it's more or less trying to give themselves some wiggle-room, because there is sometimes circumstances where X doesn't always equal Y.

Yeah, the wriggle room on the ban evasion part I figured to be partially the case, as well as leniency to give users a second chance to show they can behave in the case of new alts made after temporary bans (as points put on one account get put on all known existing alts). As noted by the stuff after "however," the ban on AA point criteria with its lack of definition for qualifying ban duration means when read exactly as currently written, if for example any of the users of the Tartaren Empire posting account get even a week-long ban on their main for hitting 5 points, TE being an AA gets a permaban. This is why I asked if that was the case, as it could have been intended to mean permaban on main = perma on alts, especially given the point mirroring that would result in 5 points on account = 5 points on alts = alts get week ban for those points.

 

[Lecic]

Will there be some sort of system to make sure siblings/roomates with the same IP address don't get banned for commenting/rating eachother's posts?

 

[Megacrafter127]

Will there be some sort of system to make sure siblings/roomates with the same IP address don't get banned for commenting/rating eachother's posts?

I doubt they are using IP exclusively to spot AAs, you can easily change your own IP, or sometimes the ISP enforces an IP change every n days.
(mine e.g. SHOULD reset every 24 hours according to the ISP)

 

[Kojinus]

One thing that's interesting about one of the clarifying answers, is Kojinus answer for Ban Evasion. Most places label Ban Evasion as any use of an alt to continue posting/playing at all after a ban, while his response implies a banned user may continue posting on a new account so long as he/she does not misbehave in any of the threads. However, one of the points criteria listed in the OP is "Ban on AA" which results in permaban on the account, so just having any account receiving a ban should result in permanent eviction of any alt, possibly the new ones as well as the preexisting ones. Speaking of that point criteria, the duration of the ban that would qualify all alts for permaban isn't defined, implying even the 5-point week timeout will result in permanent alt removal. Is that the case?

You're absolutely right, my previous definition was a little lacking, for that I apologize. We're still ironing out some of the finer details like this. Everything we have is subject to change, and for now my previous statement is where we're at with alt accounts, that definition will likely (and probably already has) expand when we create final drafts of all our moderation documents.

Do you have any suggestions for how we should handle people using alt accounts when their main accounts have been banned, either temporary or permanently? We're open to feedback! :D

Will there be some sort of system to make sure siblings/roomates with the same IP address don't get banned for commenting/rating eachother's posts?

Things like that will be handled on a case by case basis, and it'll more than likely be easy to tell if someone is using multiple accounts or if it really is another family member's account. As long as your sibling isn't liking everything you post it should make it look a lot less suspicious if we ever have to look into it. :P

 

[Tydeth]

You're absolutely right, my previous definition was a little lacking, for that I apologize. We're still ironing out some of the finer details like this. Everything we have is subject to change, and for now my previous statement is where we're at with alt accounts, that definition will likely (and probably already has) expand when we create final drafts of all our moderation documents.

Do you have any suggestions for how we should handle people using alt accounts when their main accounts have been banned, either temporary or permanently? We're open to feedback! :D

Taking another look at the OP... with the current draft having both "Ban on AA = 20 points" and "Any points awarded to one AA will be issued to all accounts" rules, 5 points quickly turn into 25 just for having 2+ accounts; 5 points lands a week ban, ban on one account = +20 for all, 20+ points = permaban. Therefore, for single-account users, 5 points = 1 week timeout, while those with multiple names are removed forever for the same 5 points. Inconsistent rules are never a good idea, especially if they appear to discriminate against a subset of your community.

I would say axe the "Ban on AA = 20 points" part and keep the "Any points awarded to one AA will be issued to all accounts" point mirroring, as that would mean if someone gets 5 points active on an account and is thus banned for a week, all his alt accounts have 5 points and are out for a week, not goodbye forever just for having extra accounts. This simplifies the points system a little and shows consistency to players (1 week ban = 1 week ban). It also lessens the issue with shared posting alts for faction thread maintenance use case, such as the Tartaren Empire example above.



As for ban evasion, if a temp-banned player makes a new alt, Schine could go with Kojinus' definition and watch the new account's posting to see if he behaves, since the new alt didn't exist when the points were handed out to the previous account(s) and there's nothing in the OP about retroactive application. If he behaves, previous bans will expire as normal. If he causes trouble, 20 points for Ban Evasion + mirroring = Goodbye. A permanently banned player making a new alt would be hit as soon as he's detected with the 20 pointer, unless he can successfully appeal the original ban; it's called permanent for a reason.

Alternatively, Schine could go with the simpler and stricter option of: Using a new alt for any posting while your account(s) are banned (regardless of duration) = 20 points on all

 

[Kojinus]

Taking another look at the OP... with the current draft having both "Ban on AA = 20 points" and "Any points awarded to one AA will be issued to all accounts" rules, 5 points quickly turn into 25 just for having 2+ accounts; 5 points lands a week ban, ban on one account = +20 for all, 20+ points = permaban. Therefore, for single-account users, 5 points = 1 week timeout, while those with multiple names are removed forever for the same 5 points. Inconsistent rules are never a good idea, especially if they appear to discriminate against a subset of your community.

I would say axe the "Ban on AA = 20 points" part and keep the "Any points awarded to one AA will be issued to all accounts" point mirroring, as that would mean if someone gets 5 points active on an account and is thus banned for a week, all his alt accounts have 5 points and are out for a week, not goodbye forever just for having extra accounts. This simplifies the points system a little and shows consistency to players (1 week ban = 1 week ban). It also lessens the issue with shared posting alts for faction thread maintenance use case, such as the Tartaren Empire example above.

Your suggestion is exactly how we plan to do it. You won't get hit for points * numberOfAccounts, it'll just be a flat 5 points to all your accounts. An example:

Alternate Account 1 gets hit for trolling, 2 points
Alternate Account 2 gets 2 points
Alternate Account 3 gets 2 points
Main Account gets 2 points

 

[Tydeth]

Kojinus Yeah, my issue with the "Ban on AA = 20 points" and "Any points awarded to one AA will be issued to all accounts" rules combination is as follows:

Alternate Account 1 gets hit for trolling, +2 points, had 3 active points from previous actions, total 5 points. Week ban.
Alternate Account 2 gets the 2 points for trolling, +20 points for AA1's ban. Permanent ban.
Alternate Account 3 gets the 2 points for trolling, +20 points for AA1's ban. Permanent ban.
Main Account gets the 2 points for trolling, +20 points for AA1's ban. Permanent ban.
Alternate Account 1 gets 20 points for the other accounts' ban. Week ban extended to Permanent.

Single Account Guy gets hit for trolling, +2 points, had 3 active points from previous actions, total 5 points. Week ban.
Single Account Guy has no alts, so no "Ban on AA" occurs to give +20 points. Ban remains just for a week.

Hence my suggestion to axe the +20 thing and just stick with the flat points mirroring that you guys planned.