META, What is it?

[Top 4ce]

So many long and derailed threads are popping up because of the misunderstanding of what META exactly is for the thread's topic.

Unfortunately, I have only a basic understanding of the current and "upcoming" META. So I'll ask.

What is the current META, and what are it's good points and what are it's limitation?

What is the "upcoming" META, and what are it's good points and what are it's limitation?

If you have logic or evidence behind your argument, providing it will be useful. I want to understand and I bet a lot of others do too. At the very least, we'll know where the disagreements are.

 

[GDPR 302420]

The upcoming and current meta has been discussed in very great detail on many threads before this one.

Please use the search function.

 

[Top 4ce]

The upcoming and current meta has been discussed in very great detail on many threads before this one.

Please use the search function.

How about one spot where one can look too, instead of reading pages of arguments to get an understanding. You know, for clarity.

 

[GDPR 302420]

How about one spot where one can look too, instead of reading pages of arguments to get an understanding. You know, for clarity.

I for one am tired of explaining the same thing over and over again, don't be lazy and expect people to hand you knoweldge on a silver plate. Go find the information you want for yourself.

 

[Non]

Honestly, the endless explanation is super tiring.

First off, I'm assuming the what you mean by meta is ship shape not the full setup. So I'll run with that and avoid the rest.

What is the current META, and what are it's good points and what are it's limitation?

Current shape meta is space, and using it to avoid damage. In its simplest and most legitimate form this is spaced armor, 20 layers of nothing between systems and hull. It can be the general spacing of all internals. It keeps missiles from hitting anything more than a couple layers of stuff at a time, and even beams and cannons have less in their paths to hit. These are real-life armoring concepts and are therefore pretty legitimate methods of defense that add to the game.

When taken to extreme, it becomes stuff like spaghetti, where most weapons are rendered ineffective by the amount of space. This is when it ceases to be acceptable, as it makes anything other than spaghetti unable to compete with it. The integrity mechanic punishes spaghetti, but I fear it may go too far towards punishing properly spaced ships like mine, though I haven't made a proper ship yet in dev, so I can't fully judge it.

What is the "upcoming" META, and what are it's good points and what are it's limitation?

Probably dumbbells with a shield shaft, which is , like spaghetti, unacceptable because something other than a dumbbell cant compete. Though I'm not 100% sure, power 2.0 has become such a clusterfuck of weird mechanics that its not easily predictable anymore. There is not a whole lot about this to like.

Bricks are not meta, nor have they have really been that effective, its just that noobs who spend time on aesthetics get killed by noobs who make bricks and they blame the brick, even though those brick-wielding noobs get trashed by anyone who knows what they are doing. Solid ships take a lot of damage very fast. It was those anti-brick complaints that I believe motivated power 2.0.

If you want to dive into meta past shape we can, I just don't feel the need right now, nor do I think you are necessarily asking for that.

 

[Batavium]

What is the current META

META only exists because there are parts of StarMade that can not be changed by the end user.

As such there is a fixed way in which some play or build styles are superior to others.

If server or single players had total control on how the game deals with power, shields and weapons. Then the META would than be limited to what ever setup the server admin chooses as he hosts the game. Each server or single player game would then have its very own settings. StarMade would still offer a default setting since not everyone wants to tweak his game.

Pvp, Pve and Builders would no longer have to swim in the same fish bowl. Play style would be defined at server level not within StarMade it self.

The Community Dock would hold more shell type designs to be filled by the end user. Since not all blueprints would work on all servers if those servers choose to adopt other settings then the default ones StarMade comes with.

Total freedom of how you setup StarMade would remove part of the endless debates people have about how people should build or play the game. Not completely offcourse some people just like to butt heads.

 

[Zoolimar]

The integrity mechanic punishes spaghetti, but I fear it may go too far towards punishing properly spaced ships like mine, though I haven't made a proper ship yet in dev, so I can't fully judge it.

It should not affect ships in 30+k range much. As long as you can drop a 6x6 thick systems their integrity will be very high.

Don't know about your ships but on my gunship (5k) I could easily afford a single block thick 20-30 bocks long "barrel" for the main weapon group. Due to their size being at least 600 more blocks in a blob. Though it was built in system blobs from the start with systems placed in 5x5x20 bricks.

It may have some unpleasant effects for very light ships under 500 mass. Systems would need to be built in discrete blobs making overall shape somewhat chunky.

 

[Calhoun]

It's an acronym standing for Most Effective Tactic Available.

I imagine it will continue to be that.

 

[JinM]

The current and upcoming meta depends first of all, on the size of ships you bring into battle. Did booth parties agree on a limitation or is it only about size?

Current meta had something with high shield cap, 5% regen, and going to max power. In the end a battle was usually won by the ship with the highest power regen.

Future meta will depend on the stats of chambers and weapons. It could be still highly influenced by maxing power up to only 25% stabilization. But I can only guess around this stuff, as there have been many non-final pre-builds.


I think it's justified to make an extra thread about this, as the topics on this forums are litered with off topic and banter. And the requested info needs a longer research (about 30 min instead of just a quick search of 3 min). Red, just post the regarding threads yourself, instead of trashtalking OP.

 

[Top 4ce]

I for one am tired of explaining the same thing over and over again, don't be lazy and expect people to hand you knoweldge on a silver plate. Go find the information you want for yourself.

>Is a Community Mentor...

Honestly, the endless explanation is super tiring.

First off, I'm assuming the what you mean by meta is ship shape not the full setup. So I'll run with that and avoid the rest.

Current shape meta is space, and using it to avoid damage. In its simplest and most legitimate form this is spaced armor, 20 layers of nothing between systems and hull. It can be the general spacing of all internals. It keeps missiles from hitting anything more than a couple layers of stuff at a time, and even beams and cannons have less in their paths to hit. These are real-life armoring concepts and are therefore pretty legitimate methods of defense that add to the game.

When taken to extreme, it becomes stuff like spaghetti, where most weapons are rendered ineffective by the amount of space. This is when it ceases to be acceptable, as it makes anything other than spaghetti unable to compete with it. The integrity mechanic punishes spaghetti, but I fear it may go too far towards punishing properly spaced ships like mine, though I haven't made a proper ship yet in dev, so I can't fully judge it.


Probably dumbbells with a shield shaft, which is , like spaghetti, unacceptable because something other than a dumbbell cant compete. Though I'm not 100% sure, power 2.0 has become such a clusterfuck of weird mechanics that its not easily predictable anymore. There is not a whole lot about this to like.

Bricks are not meta, nor have they have really been that effective, its just that noobs who spend time on aesthetics get killed by noobs who make bricks and they blame the brick, even though those brick-wielding noobs get trashed by anyone who knows what they are doing. Solid ships take a lot of damage very fast. It was those anti-brick complaints that I believe motivated power 2.0.

If you want to dive into meta past shape we can, I just don't feel the need right now, nor do I think you are necessarily asking for that.

Thanks, that is informative. I guess my only follow question is how does power interact with both metas?

 

[Non]

>Is a Community Mentor...

and is making an entirely legitimate point.

Thanks, that is informative. I guess my only follow question is how does power interact with both metas

Power dictates shape for sub aux meta ships in current release, but anything that is big enough to use aux doesn't have to worry about shape.

In new power it dictates shape for all ships of all sizes.

 

[Az14el]

a shifting meta with lots of situational options in the core game is unlikely i think, highly reliant on player numbers & how the stock standard chambers system turns out

this isn't necessarily bad, servers can already balance systems & to an extent mechanics how they want if the standing combat meta concerns them, of course some more freedom & quality of life with the damn xmls would be ideal, messing with those is a bit of a headache as is, and with the fairly low player count, making heavy changes to systems & placing restrictions on ships is pretty unnattractive to server owners.

As for the current meta I'd say it's stacking offensive capabilities while using the most weight efficient defences possible, not necessarily glass cannons however, as we know by now a heavily dispersed ship can be insanely durable even without shields or armor. Offense is simple, you can juice 10 flat dps from each actively firing weapons module on your ship, you can multiply this with Ion or Overdrive for some drawbacks & use more firing entities to further increase your power generation potential when needed but ultimately dps is linearly tied to power generation, which is also hard limited by mass (not counting bugged methods). Meta defence on the other hand has blurred the lines of intended/exploitative for a long while, all for the purpose of maximizing the amount of mass you can put toward damage output, and like Non said has become more about spacing out of SHP providing blocks to reduce the damage potential of any hit taken from any direction. Some shielding is obligatory but the best defence for a heavily dispersed ship is mobility, typically the only defensive effects systems are Ion & Overdrive.

 

[Ezekial Alexander]

and is making an entirely legitimate point.

In a most douche laden manner.

Mentors do not deride others.

 

[Non]

In a most douche laden manner.

Mentors do not deride others.

Nor are they required to cater to those who don't listen. there was another thread pretty much exactly like this a few weeks ago where I gave an answer pretty much exactly the same as the one I gave here. Reds been doing this a lot longer than I have.

 

[Ezekial Alexander]

Nor are they required to cater to those who don't listen. there was another thread pretty much exactly like this a few weeks ago where I gave an answer pretty much exactly the same as the one I gave here. Reds been doing this a lot longer than I have.

I didn't say he had to cater. You know there's more than the options of being an ass and bowing down, right?

He could have, and should have, just passed by and been on with his day. This should be standard behavior for anyone, and certainly for someone labeled as a community asset. If he can't hack it, he should give it up.

 

[Non]

You know there's more than the options of being an ass and bowing down, right?

Pls

The upcoming and current meta has been discussed in very great detail on many threads before this one.

Please use the search function.

This is a pretty civil message asking people to research before posting.

How about one spot where one can look too, instead of reading pages of arguments to get an understanding. You know, for clarity.

This is a direct response asking Red to cater to people who don't care to do the research themselves.

I for one am tired of explaining the same thing over and over again, don't be lazy and expect people to hand you knowledge on a silver plate. Go find the information you want for yourself.

This is Red showing moderate irritation at the refusal of his earlier message and it is entirely legitimate. A new thread about meta shouldn't have to be made every month, just like we don't need another ammo suggestion every couple weeks.. Expecting Red, or anyone else, to repeatedly respond to the same question because someone doesn't bother to look it up and read is unrealistic.

In a most douche laden manner.

This is a direct insult targeted at some rather mild statements Red made.

 

[Ezekial Alexander]

Pls

This is a pretty civil message asking people to research before posting.

This is a direct response asking Red to cater to people who don't care to do the research themselves.

This is Red showing moderate irritation at the refusal of his earlier message and it is entirely legitimate. A new thread about meta shouldn't have to be made every month, just like we don't need another ammo suggestion every couple weeks.. Expecting Red, or anyone else, to repeatedly respond to the same question because someone doesn't bother to look it up and read is unrealistic.

This is a direct insult targeted at some rather mild statements Red made.

Please, he was condescending from the start. It's certainly more restrained response than I've seen in the past from him, so I will give him that.

That said, Top 4ce didn't ask Red to do anything than allow him to continue the thread unabated. There was no onus placed on Red, unless Red's alts literally make up the rest of the forum accounts.

Unfortunately, this argument has cluttered yet another thread and for that I apologize and step away.

 

[Calhoun]

Please, he was condescending from the start. It's certainly more restrained response than I've seen in the past from him, so I will give him that.

That said, Top 4ce didn't ask Red to do anything than allow him to continue the thread unabated. There was no onus placed on Red, unless Red's alts literally make up the rest of the forum accounts.

Unfortunately, this argument has cluttered yet another thread and for that I apologize and step away.

Wouldn't have got cluttered if the unnecessary thread hadn't been made

 

[Qweesdy]

Please, he was condescending from the start. It's certainly more restrained response than I've seen in the past from him, so I will give him that.

The funny part is that if anyone actually does search for "current meta" using forum's search feature; the only useful result they'll find is this topic.

 

[JinM]

Please complain about lazyness contstructive next time: Just post the bloddy threads, if you state that the information is so easy to find. I can't find the corresponding threads too, and every other new reader as well. Thank you all.