Mass reduction blocks

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    Could be that I am overly empathic to my latest ship design.. but.. what were you thinking? Of course I am.

    I build my ships to scale with the character, What would be the point otherwise?

    But more on topic..

    My latest ship to scale with the character turns like a snail.. not specifically Canon to the ship I chose to recreate.

    My ship is a snail because of It's mass.. mass determined by block count.. irrespective of weight.

    Blocks are mass irrespective of their functionality.

    Computer systems are mostly hollow, spacing for cooling and such, not solid blocks of mass, they therefore should not be in the same category as every other block, neither should lighter hulls, but.. if this be the fare.. I would propose a mass reduction block.

    I want my character scaled Canon ship to turn like it's supposed to.. surely this is possible.
     

    Mariux

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    Turn speed depends on ship's dimensions, not mass.
     
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    You can change the turn speed to ship mass ratio in the server.cfg file in your starmade directory.
    go to your starmade directory and find server.cfg open it in notepad then press CTRL+F and type TURNING_DIMENSION_SCALE
    then change the scale to something like 2:1.
     

    Mariux

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    Negative, the turn speed depends on ship´s mass and dimensions, try to put 1 line of blocks on the 3 axis, then put armored blocks on the center and check how turn speed decreases.

    @Cerebralhemirage , sorry dude but apliying your idea make the game more unbalanced, fat ass never turn fast than an small ass.
    Turning speed also depends on mass? Didn't know that.

    But yeah, mass reduction blocks - horrible idea.
     
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    i believe a balance of block masses is planned. tho i could be wrong.

    and as much as i like the anti mass block idea. it would really break the game in many ways. so A for effort, but it would make titans with the nimbleness of a shuttle, among many other things.
     
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    It would also allow one to make ships with negative mass :confused:
    And we know what happens when that is the case.
     

    kupu

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    The turning speed debate has more eloquent (and less paradoxical) solutions than reducing the mass of ships with extra blocks i think :)
     
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    The turning speed debate has more eloquent (and less paradoxical) solutions than reducing the mass of ships with extra blocks i think :)
    I lol'd.

    Seriously, this suggestions makes about as much sense as the current crafting system.
     

    NeonSturm

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    You want a block/system which reduces:
    1. gravity effect
    2. turn penalty
    3. thrust penalties
    4. ? cloak/jam energy requirements
    5. penalty on ENEMY push/pull/stop due to your mass
    OMG
     
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    Benevolent27

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    I really wish there was such a block. I understand there needs to be penalties for larger ships, but not to the point that they are unusable.

    So, this post made me think about a few ideas for StarMade to address the large ship issue to really address it. So, get your reading glasses out, because here they come!

    Perhaps there could be a computer that emits a field, which reduces inertia, but it does so at a high energy cost. The energy would be constant whether the ship was moving or not and would be proportionate to how much of an effect it was giving. The equation for how it reduces intertia would not be a simple subtraction of mass, but rather a percentage decrease, depending on how many modules there are. The higher the ratio, the closer to the max effect. Let's say it's 80% when there is a 1 to 1 ratio. Each module could handle a certain weight. The blocks themselves would have mass, and would affect the ship mass, but would not be too heavy in and of themselves. (Maybe they're made out of fancy, high tech, lighter than aluminum, metals) As a result of lower mass, the ship would also lose speed faster and would be more affected by movement effects, such as pull or push cannons. Before turning that juggernaught into a light-weight using this method, this would need to be considered. Imagine being pulled into a barrage of cannons on a pirate station and not being able to get away.

    Alternatively, there could also be an "Advanced Photon Thruster" and "Advanced photon chamber" (rather than Ion thrusters) which are more responsive, but only for larger ships. The photon chamber would have to be, let's say more than 100 blocks to be more efficient than the standard ion thrusters. The chamber would be most efficient when in a spherical or elliptical shape, complete with wedge and corner pieces. The Photon Thrusters by themselves would be better en mass compared to ion thrusters, but the Advanced Photon Chamber would give a multiplier type of bonus (perhaps maxing out at a 1 to 1 ratio, giving a 30% bonus than simply having an equal amount of photon thrusters).

    Finally, for all thrusters, if we really want to get realistic with it, it really should matter which direction they are placed. It should also matter where they are in relation to the center of gravity. If a person puts them facing LEFT, directly on the x and z axis (left/right and back/forward), ahead of the center of gravity, the ship will use those thrusters to turn LEFT (but the thrusters would be useless for turning right). If up high on the y and x axis (left/right, up/down) and facing to the left, then it will add speed to the roll of the ship in one direction. The bonuses will only apply to whatever direction those thrusters are facing. They will also apply differently depending on how far away they are from the center of gravity. The farther away from the center of gravity, the more responsive they are, but the lower their max effect has. For example, with a barrel roll, if you put a thruster facing left and above the core just 2 blocks up, it will go into the barrel roll slower, but will max out at a higher speed. If you put the same thruster 8 blocks up, it will go into the barrel roll faster, but will have a slower max speed. An upgraded version of the thruster would be able to point in more than one direction. Call it a "multi-directional thruster." Now, the fun of all this would be that you'd need to balance your ship depending on the needs. Maybe it's more important to turn left and right faster. Maybe someone (imagine a fighter ship) makes it turn up and down faster and barrel roll faster, simulating how a fighter jet works. A larger ship would need thrusters in propotion to it's size in order to move the same speed a smaller craft has. You might also want it to turn left and right faster instead of barrel rolling a lot. Also, if things were more realistic, there would be more than 1 type of thruster. And power would not be infinite.

    Now, this brings to a point where there is everlasting power in Starmade. Where does it come from? Nobody knows. You put a reactor down, and wham bam, power. The way to limit designs is to make the player work for the power. A ship that is just twice the width, twice the height, and twice the length, is literally 8 times as big, and would require 8 times the thrusters and power. A ship that is 4 times the size would require 64 times the amount of power. See what I'm getting at? If people had to mine for their energy requirements, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to be lugging around a giant warship everywhere. A small, efficient explorer ship would be needed.. Or for small skirmishes, a fighter ship. A juggernaut only when necessary. This would introduce use for new items, like solar sails (which catch solar radiation, slowly speeding a vessel with no power cost, but only work outside of the ship and when spread around - Imagine deploying these on an explorer ship). There could be solar panel modules (which work best closer to a sun). A person might mine for fuel on planets - or on asteroids. Maybe they would make their own rocket fuel from stuff they find, like plants. If a person had room, perhaps they'd build a nuclear reactor. Maybe an even more advanced, fusion reactor. These are just a few ideas.

    So, back to my point about additional thrusters. There would need to be classes of them. Ones that use fuel, and others that use energy. Some are very responsive, while others are slow to warm up but have a higher max speed. The Advanced Photon Thrusters would need energy, of course. They would also have a higher max speed than fuel powered rockets. They would also be a LOT more costly to build. The rockets, however, would have more initial THUMP when starting. So, how would this all work out when a person first starts the game? Well, the newbie would have some basic ion thrusters and some hydrogen fuel cell batteries to power them. The batteries last a while, but have a low maximum output and eventually they need to be recharged. They would, of course, work better in weird, L shapes, because of heat dissipation affecting efficiency and also the longer segment they are in, because the longer cycle the chemical reactions could take. (Hey, don't ask me, this is how they work now - I'm just making up a logic behind it.) The batteries could be recharged at a trade station, for a fee, or at a person's base if they have a recharge station set up (hint, hint, a nuclear reactor would be cheaper in the long run). For a very large ship, a nuclear reactor would be a lot more practical, right on the ship. And for a massive ship, a fusion chamber. (Or maybe the person loves to mine planets all the time and they have an insane amount of fuel to burn up so they use fuel rockets - or maybe someone doesn't want to be bothered with complex fuel and rocket systems so they stick with ion thrusters and hydrogen fuel cells.) Also, let it be noted that for power systems, capacitors would still be necessary, just like they are necessary in all electronics.

    Now, with power types comes different risk. For example, if a fusion chamber was attacked and ruptured, I imagine there might be a rather large boom happening. And who wants that kind of boom on their ship? Same thing with a fighter jet using fuel. Hit the gas tank, and WHAMO.

    So, I know this was long, but if anyone is active and thinks such a mod could be created (or maybe some of this could be implemented into the actual game itself), let me know. :)

    -Phil
     
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    Zyrr

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    Please do not necrobump forum threads.

    Thank you.
     

    sayerulz

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    Christ, what was he even doing that far back in the forums?
     
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    If he did a search before posting, I think he deserves some credit. I wish there were more like him.
    Now, if we can only get people to actually read the posts before commenting...
     

    Zyrr

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    Are you not all reading my post? Please stop necrobumping this thread.
     
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    Christ, what was he even doing that far back in the forums?
    Probably been busy all the time writing that wall of text... would have taken me almost a year, too... ; )


    Are you not all reading my post? Please stop necrobumping this thread.
    Then how about please heeding your own advice?
    I don't like the concept of threads being"dead" at all - if there is a thread for something, then goddam use it, instead of making dozens of threads without searching, and having the arguments spread all over the place. And then going on to complain when people don't search first.
     
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