Make heat-seeker missiles ignore astronauts

[Winterhome]

All depends on what "heatseekers" are really seeking. How does an astronaut move through space? Has to be putting out something, yeah? So I would say there's enough for a heatseeker to lock onto.

EVA mobility units operate via the expulsion of cold gases. Not hot rockets.

 

[Gasboy]

EVA mobility units operate via the expulsion of cold gases. Not hot rockets.

Again, it doesn't have to be hot. The EVA suits aren't stealth suits, so they emit signals, something a seeker missile could seek. Heat is just the easiest thing.

Also, how does an EVA suit keep itself cool? Because heat buildup is a problem in space, there's no easy way to vent it. An EVA suit will easily become a warm enough to be targeted.

However, heatseekers, as far as a space game goes, is a misnomer. Signal seekers might be a better term. A ship, even an EVA suit, is a mobile emitter of different wavelengths of energy. Something a missile could be configured to track.

"It's gotta have a tailpipe..."

 

[jayman38]

I'm thinking of a server-side config option: maximum missile group astronaut count or something like that; if a missile weapon group exceeds a certain configurable size, the missiles won't target astronauts. That way, you can have small anti-astronaut missile arrays, but larger missile systems will not target puny humanoids. Flexible and kinda-sorta maybe more realistic.

 

[Winterhome]

Again, it doesn't have to be hot. The EVA suits aren't stealth suits, so they emit signals, something a seeker missile could seek. Heat is just the easiest thing.

Also, how does an EVA suit keep itself cool? Because heat buildup is a problem in space, there's no easy way to vent it. An EVA suit will easily become a warm enough to be targeted.

However, heatseekers, as far as a space game goes, is a misnomer. Signal seekers might be a better term. A ship, even an EVA suit, is a mobile emitter of different wavelengths of energy. Something a missile could be configured to track.

"It's gotta have a tailpipe..."

Grasping at straws, mate.

You're trying to make something do something that it's not specifically designated to do.
"Heat Seeking" almost exclusively refers to "Infrared Homing", and it automatically targets anything of sufficient temperature to release a reasonable amount of infrared light/radiation. Heat doesn't build up nearly as much as you think it does in space. It does built up, yes, but it doesn't build up sufficiently for a human to cook itself with its own body temperature, or to register as "THRUSTER" - in fact, the surface of an asteroid would get hotter than an astronaut solely because of the impact of solar radiation over time. Heat does not require convection to dissipate, although convection helps considerably.

If you lower the threshold for an infrared homing missile sufficiently to track an astronaut, then it would just as easily lock onto the firing ship or a random piece of space debris.

Infrared homing missiles do not track anything other than infrared radiation, and cannot even be configured to do so.

 

[Gasboy]

Grasping at straws, mate.

You're trying to make something do something that it's not specifically designated to do.
"Heat Seeking" almost exclusively refers to "Infrared Homing", and it automatically targets anything of sufficient temperature to release a reasonable amount of infrared light/radiation. Heat doesn't build up nearly as much as you think it does in space. It does built up, yes, but it doesn't build up sufficiently for a human to cook itself with its own body temperature, or to register as "THRUSTER" - in fact, the surface of an asteroid would get hotter than an astronaut solely because of the impact of solar radiation over time. Heat does not require convection to dissipate, although convection helps considerably.

If you lower the threshold for an infrared homing missile sufficiently to track an astronaut, then it would just as easily lock onto the firing ship or a random piece of space debris.

Infrared homing missiles do not track anything other than infrared radiation, and cannot even be configured to do so.

Okay, and as I said, it really ought to be changed from "heatseeker" to something more appropriate. Because it targets ship cores, not thrusters. I don't think the ship core is putting out all that energy. Thus, if it can target a ship core, it can target an astronaut.

But hey, let's throw all that aside and look at it from a balance perspective.

The "heatseeker" is a fire and forget weapon. The upsides are... pull trigger, missiles hit stuff. You don't have to hold the target in your crosshairs for a specific amount of time, you don't even have to face the target.

The downsides are... it hits stuff. Anything close by.

So yeah. I doubt they will change it from targeting astronauts. If someone's in a ship, the missiles should just hit the ship. If the astronaut is outside the ship, sucks to be them.

Don't fire indiscriminate weapons when friendlies are around. Or earn the ire you deserve.

EDIT: I am not against having a person's anti-missile turrets engaging friendly heatseekers should they lock onto their vessel. That is certainly allowable, I would think.

 

[lilheartless]

Okay, and as I said, it really ought to be changed from "heatseeker" to something more appropriate. Because it targets ship cores, not thrusters. I don't think the ship core is putting out all that energy. Thus, if it can target a ship core, it can target an astronaut.

But hey, let's throw all that aside and look at it from a balance perspective.

The "heatseeker" is a fire and forget weapon. The upsides are... pull trigger, missiles hit stuff. You don't have to hold the target in your crosshairs for a specific amount of time, you don't even have to face the target.

The downsides are... it hits stuff. Anything close by.

So yeah. I doubt they will change it from targeting astronauts. If someone's in a ship, the missiles should just hit the ship. If the astronaut is outside the ship, sucks to be them.

Don't fire indiscriminate weapons when friendlies are around. Or earn the ire you deserve.

EDIT: I am not against having a person's anti-missile turrets engaging friendly heatseekers should they lock onto their vessel. That is certainly allowable, I would think.

for some reason i always thought they were called swarm missiles since they aren't heat seekers anyways as they target things that don't generate heat like asteroids..... anyways not sure why i thought that but heat seeker is really a misnomer since they don't actually seek heat even if heat was a metric that was used in this game.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

for some reason i always thought they were called swarm missiles since they aren't heat seekers anyways as they target things that don't generate heat like asteroids..... anyways not sure why i thought that but heat seeker is really a misnomer since they don't actually seek heat even if heat was a metric that was used in this game.

Yeah I don't think in the game anywhere are they called heat seekers. The original version might have been but back then cannons used to be called AMCs. Now it's Missile slaved to Missile and you call it what ever you want.

 

[Zaphord]

Getting killed by your own heat seekers. That's an "oh shit" moment I'm sure everyone who's ever played this game has had at one point you or another.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Getting killed by your own heat seekers. That's an "oh shit" moment I'm sure everyone who's ever played this game has had at one point you or another.

I've died so many times testing out my missile boat because I left the logic heat seekers active and was dumb enough to get out of the core.

 

[Panpiper]

I died a half dozen times the first day I played, as I learned that virtually all unidentified stations were pirate stations that would kill you. Since then I have died far more times, never to a pirate, neither station nor ship, nor has any other player killed me. The numerous deaths I have suffered since have ALL been due to my own heat seeker swarmers.

 

[Zerg]

Our current equipment used by NASA uses nitrogen gas and wouldn't produce heat during its use.
#20
FatCobra, Oct 12, 2015

software patch to the rockets then to target black blobs (cold) in the detector instead of white(hot)

heh nerdy i know but its simply not feasible to nullify the effect of temperature difference or the military would have done it, and we would have the answer to musquitos and i guess my point is i want to feel like i can still beat you guys and your toys

 

[Ithirahad]

Get your passengers into computers, or turrets, then.

That looks stupid and is stupid and, if proper crew mechanics ever get in the game, that ability will change.

Heat seekers were made to be fire and forget, but with a downside of not being able to identify between friend or foe. I seriously doubt they will change how heat seekers will operate. They could fix it so that heatseekers hit your ship instead of glitching inside to kill your passengers, which would be fair.

Nope. Missiles go through your ship so you can build missile launchers that don't have exposed missile blocks. This will not change. There is still the danger of hitting other ships of your own, so I have no idea why the missile should also hit your own passengers and crew. That's dumb.

That or like... don't use swarm missiles on your passenger craft.

I generally have to just not fire my swarm missiles, which generally doesn't cause too much trouble. Except when it does. Because swarm missiles are great for certain kinds of ship, and carrying a passenger or two, something every ship can generally do, shouldn't stop me because I'm afraid the missiles are going to turn back around and instead of that great big pirate heat signature right in front of me, they'll scan right through my own hull, find the tiny traces of warmth emanating from my passengers, and dive in on them.

 

[Valiant70]

Get your passengers into computers, or turrets, then.

No.
[DOUBLEPOST=1445439995,1445439828][/DOUBLEPOST]Astronauts are already vulnerable enough without super weapons zeroing in on them. In the interest of game balance, the ability for ANY ship-mounted missile to lock onto an astronaut should be removed.

 

[lilheartless]

That looks stupid and is stupid and, if proper crew mechanics ever get in the game, that ability will change.

Nope. Missiles go through your ship so you can build missile launchers that don't have exposed missile blocks. This will not change. There is still the danger of hitting other ships of your own, so I have no idea why the missile should also hit your own passengers and crew. That's dumb.


I generally have to just not fire my swarm missiles, which generally doesn't cause too much trouble. Except when it does. Because swarm missiles are great for certain kinds of ship, and carrying a passenger or two, something every ship can generally do, shouldn't stop me because I'm afraid the missiles are going to turn back around and instead of that great big pirate heat signature right in front of me, they'll scan right through my own hull, find the tiny traces of warmth emanating from my passengers, and dive in on them.

what he meant by hit your own ships is this ... you fire your heatseakers they leave your bounding box scan for targets find your passengers come in and detonate on your hull which they can't damage instead of killing stuff inside your ship by going through your walls a second time.

 

[godmars]

I think seekers looping around and killing everyone on board the ship they were fired from is karmic retribution and therefore should not be removed

 

[Gasboy]

what he meant by hit your own ships is this ... you fire your heatseakers they leave your bounding box scan for targets find your passengers come in and detonate on your hull which they can't damage instead of killing stuff inside your ship by going through your walls a second time.

This is exactly what I meant.
[DOUBLEPOST=1445478528,1445478317][/DOUBLEPOST]

That looks stupid and is stupid and, if proper crew mechanics ever get in the game, that ability will change.

You're right, it's completely silly to expect your CREW to sit at CREW stations and do things like man turrets and weapons computers. I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks, I have seen the light. All your crew and passengers should totally not strap into a seat and instead go flying around and get killed by gravity and sudden stops.

As for swarm missiles, I'll try one more time. Don't fire them while other friendlies are in the area. This is an easy concept to understand, isn't it? Surely you tend to build more than one weapon system per ship?
[DOUBLEPOST=1445478613][/DOUBLEPOST]

I think seekers looping around and killing everyone on board the ship they were fired from is karmic retribution and therefore should not be removed

It's the result of removing all warning labels and letting nature take its course.

 

[Ithirahad]

You're right, it's completely silly to expect your CREW to sit at CREW stations and do things like man turrets and weapons computers. I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks, I have seen the light. All your crew and passengers should totally not strap into a seat and instead go flying around and get killed by gravity and sudden stops.

Umm, not what I meant. And this is still wrong anyway. Let's see.
First of all, if crew actually sat at crew stations rather than magically getting sucked into their computers, which they probably will be soon, they'd be vulnerable to the same issue when sitting at their stations as they would walking around the ship.

Second of all, passengers, also strapped in their seats, will still get nuked for no logical reason.

Third of all, if we have tech like gravity-generating machines, surely they can directionally compensate for sudden accelerations?

As for swarm missiles, I'll try one more time. Don't fire them while other friendlies are in the area. This is an easy concept to understand, isn't it? Surely you tend to build more than one weapon system per ship?

I already get this; if there are other friendly ships in the area I don't fire my swarmers. I'm not that derpy. Normally, anyway. :p
...Regardless, passengers and crew aboard my own ship should not be considered "other." That is ridiculous.

It's the result of removing all warning labels and letting nature take its course.

If "nature taking its course" implied that about 1/2 of heat-seeking rockets would turn around and slam through the plane's canopy and into the copilot of whoever fired them, then I suppose so.

Gasboy , you're going pretty far to defend what is essentially a glitch resulting from the unrealistic way weapons work. If the swarmers already run the risk of blowing up everyone else's ship, including friendlies, why would targeting of the origin ship's crew, which makes no sense, be needed?

 

[Lecic]

Regardless of "realistic" reasons for swarmers to target or not target astronauts... it's a bit hard to deny that they aren't overpowered in terms of anti-boarding defense. They're already the Lazy Newbie's weapon, as anyone who's ever fought a server-side native can tell you. We really don't need to enforce the lazyness of it by also making it the perfect anti-boarder weapon, as it not only targets astronauts who are INSIDE the ship, but fully cloaked and jammed ships.

 

[lilheartless]

Umm, not what I meant. And this is still wrong anyway. Let's see.
First of all, if crew actually sat at crew stations rather than magically getting sucked into their computers, which they probably will be soon, they'd be vulnerable to the same issue when sitting at their stations as they would walking around the ship.

Second of all, passengers, also strapped in their seats, will still get nuked for no logical reason.

Third of all, if we have tech like gravity-generating machines, surely they can directionally compensate for sudden accelerations?

I already get this; if there are other friendly ships in the area I don't fire my swarmers. I'm not that derpy. Normally, anyway. :p
...Regardless, passengers and crew aboard my own ship should not be considered "other." That is ridiculous.

If "nature taking its course" implied that about 1/2 of heat-seeking rockets would turn around and slam through the plane's canopy and into the copilot of whoever fired them, then I suppose so.

Gasboy , you're going pretty far to defend what is essentially a glitch resulting from the unrealistic way weapons work. If the swarmers already run the risk of blowing up everyone else's ship, including friendlies, why would targeting of the origin ship's crew, which makes no sense, be needed?

what are you talking about? If you actually read what he said and my post which he replied to in the post you quoted he is against swarm missiles targeting the crew of the ship they come from but for them still not having a friend or foe identifier meaning that swarm missiles should still target allies and enemies alike but that they should not target anything within the bounding box of the entity they were fired from or if that is not possible then make them detonate and do no damage on the hull of the entity they came from rather than flying through a solid shell of a ship and killing on-board passengers..... pls read.