Major suggestions for the most realistic Universe structure possible and more.

[DemonOrca95]

New Solar systems:

Fully functional solar systems with planets in proper alignment and an orbit around the host star. The closer the planet is to the sun, the faster its orbit will be like in real life. Depending on the distance of the planets, they could have liquid water if they are just the right distance. If the worlds are too far, they will be ice cold. If too close to the sun, the surface will be constantly be burning and scorched.

Suggestions for new types of stars:

Like reality, stars in the game could come in all sorts of colors and sizes. Red giant stars, Blue giants, white dwarf stars (the burned out core of a long deceased star.) Yellow suns like the one sustaining Earth, Purple or green stars that are extremely hot, black dwarf stars (they are basically white dwarfs that have fully cooled down to the point where they have gone dark but keep planets in their orbit.) Red suns, and of course Black Holes.

New Planet types:

For all these reasons I say there should be a variety of new planet types; Oceanic (all water with an extremely deep bottom, and hopefully have water blocks behave like a true liquid), a Crater world (similar too the moon), Radioactive planets, Toxic worlds, Crystalline (A rare planet with an enormous amount of crystals on its surface), Volcanic worlds which would give you an excellent reason to put huge amounts of lava on it, Magma worlds, Rocky planets with barren gray surfaces, Metallic worlds (Containing lots of materials for hulls), Tundra planets, Gaia worlds, and how could we forget Gas Giants? They could easily just be a visual effect but will engulf your ship in gas if you attempt to fly into it, which it could have layers like the real thing. And have different colored and sized Gas Giants, some could even have rings similar to Saturn.

Moons. Just like the planets, they could use all the terrain and environment types. Moons could be a bit smaller and will have a spherical orbit around the planet, some worlds could even have multiple moons held by their gravity.

In addition to new planet types, I believe each one should have its own unique skybox/texture. Currently, you can't really see much of a sky on the planets at the moment. Another thing that would be very appreciated, asteroid belts! Like the ones we have in real life, they circle the very far rim of a solar system, and of course you could mine them for resources like we do right now. Unlike the current state where you search random sectors, you could easily find rocks to mind in a local asteroid belt.

Galaxies:

As for the Universe structure itself, there should be a variety of galaxies instead of just random star systems being right next to each other, and add a large gap between each system. Every galaxy of course could be disk shaped and have its own unique color and solar system generation. Since Star Clusters could be implemented, clusters in real life no doubt contain Black Holes, and we could put super massive ones in the center of each galaxy. If Black Holes are added and generated, there needs to be a special type of computer you could place of ships that will detect them and can help guide the pilot away from it instead of loosing a really expensive ship with valuables on board.

More buildings and other ground structures:

And of course more structures that could be found on the surfaces of habitable planets, with NPC creatures or people roaming them (If the planet/moon can support life and has the right distance from the host star.) I know we can sometimes find cities on planets, but they have no interior and everything just feels devoid of life. For Oceanic based planets, we could have aquatic creatures swimming in the waters. There could be new types of NPC factions similar to the Trading Guild and Pirates. Admins should be able to create their own custom NPC factions and choose what ships they use, skins for astronought mode, stations they use, and decide if they are aggressive or not. I feel that we should have beyond more to explore and find with the newly generated Universe.

Opinions? :p

 

[NeonSturm]

*joke ahead:* We should also have leechs, piranhas, monster-ticks, and evil bacteria living from anything of organic, inorganic(ships) or sulphur on the sea floor.

Agree.
At least solar system and universe generation should be easy. not easy to do fully realistic, but at least interesting.

Sol sectors : avoid these while using hyper-drive (I said hyper, not jump!)
Black hole systems : Do I really have to say that?: Don't get close!
Void sector "streets" : nice for hyper-drives.

Lonely travellers : Planets in the middle of no-where.
Asteroid belts : Very nice place to hide something from radar (<1km ?) but if you haven't scanned a sector and your ship has access to the data, you can't use your jump drive there.

 

[ToyotaSupra]

Agree with the lot of it. Especially the new planets, a popular one. The new lava and poision blocks imply it's in the works. I also like the idea of 'dead space' where there is no stars or planets, just empty...well...space. We kinda have that now, but not enough.

@NeonSturm I love the idea of black holes but they are never portrayed properly. For me personally the mere fact they exist and how they (supposedly) work is pure nightmare fuel. But why do we always see them as this:

And never THIS?

Spoiler: Terrifying

Imagine exploring a colourful universe filled with planets and starts galore. Then the music stops. Your ships starts to let out a warning that you're being pulled closer to something. You look around and see THAT THING. It's too late, you hit the event horizon and are pulled apart atom by atom...

(Seriously, am I the only person genuinely afraid of black holes? Like I actually have nightmares about them? Looking at that image makes me physically ill...)

 

[NeonSturm]

Agree with the lot of it. Especially the new planets, a popular one. The new lava and poision blocks imply it's in the works. I also like the idea of 'dead space' where there is no stars or planets, just empty...well...space. We kinda have that now, but not enough.

@NeonSturm I love the idea of black holes but they are never portrayed properly. For me personally the mere fact they exist and how they (supposedly) work is pure nightmare fuel. They But why do we always see them as this:

And never THIS?

Spoiler: Terrifying

(Seriously, am I the only person genuinely afraid of black holes? Like I actually have nightmares about them? Looking at that image makes me physically ill...)

First is how I imagine a WormHole, second is a BlackHole

But if you fall through a 1-way worm-hole, your peoples may never see you again, thus why would it be different from a black hole?

 

[karkinosz]

@ToyotaSupra I think the first is a black hole that is drawing a nearby nebula or some bluish star in with a visible accretion disk, while the second is a black hole in empty space. The latter is far more dangerous since you might not detect it until its gravity causes course changes... which if you are stupid (just an engine fault) you might fly a bit too close and be doomed to die.

@NeonSturm Sadly we haven't confirmed the existence of any wormholes(ie. observed) although I don't think a one way wormhole would exist, unless the exit is smaller than the entrance. Typically any trip you die in is one way :p

 

[DemonOrca95]

@ToyotaSupra I think the first is a black hole that is drawing a nearby nebula or some bluish star in with a visible accretion disk, while the second is a black hole in empty space. The latter is far more dangerous since you might not detect it until its gravity causes course changes... which if you are stupid (just an engine fault) you might fly a bit too close and be doomed to die.

@NeonSturm Sadly we haven't confirmed the existence of any wormholes(ie. observed) although I don't think a one way wormhole would exist, unless the exit is smaller than the entrance. Typically any trip you die in is one way :p

As I stated in the post, there needs to be some type of computer you can buy from a shop and install in your ship that's designed to detect Black holes and help you navigate around them.

 

[Criss]

Black holes really shouldn't just be everywhere though. They would be more commonly found at the center of the galaxy. The stray blackhole could appear elsewhere in space but it should be rare. I think the whole realistic universe thing is cool but it might also flatten out the game a bit on the star system level. We only have 16 sectors to work with. Planetary orbits is pretty much unnecessary unless schema had also planned on introducing all the effects that would come with it such as seasons. I think that's a bit much really so there isn't really a demand for real orbits.

 

[DemonOrca95]

Black holes really shouldn't just be everywhere though. They would be more commonly found at the center of the galaxy. The stray blackhole could appear elsewhere in space but it should be rare. I think the whole realistic universe thing is cool but it might also flatten out the game a bit on the star system level. We only have 16 sectors to work with. Planetary orbits is pretty much unnecessary unless schema had also planned on introducing all the effects that would come with it such as seasons. I think that's a bit much really so there isn't really a demand for real orbits.

I noted in my post that Black Holes would only be in certain locations for every galaxy. In real life, you'd normally find them in dense star clusters or in the center. The ones in the center of a galaxy are absolutely massive, implementing all this would simulate how horrific getting too close would be. If this is done, they gotta put them in star clusters and galaxy centers. I would never suggest scattering them in random locations otherwise people would have constant trouble with navigation.

 

[karkinosz]

As I stated in the post, there needs to be some type of computer you can buy from a shop and install in your ship that's designed to detect Black holes and help you navigate around them.

Black hole section
Is it really necessary? You can tell a black hole by its effects even at great distances, plus anyone with procedural backgrounds on will likely be able to see a solid dark circle pretty easily. And I honestly think that pilot skill (game play) should be important when dealing with possible space hazards, (black holes to dust storms to space thunderstorms(the latter is allowed by rule of cool)).

If we are going to vary the universe making safe navigation skills for dangerous areas of space necessary (risk v.s rewards mechanics anyone?) might be a good idea.

Now I know your original idea included computers to detect black holes like you mentioned in quote but adding a block and functionality for something that any good pilot should be able to do seems kind of redundant. Of course to help locate black holes with ease in some cases (black hole spawns near another system) an accretion disk animation could form around it, (now this might be going too into the details but systems damage via gamma ray bursts from the poles of the black hole anyone? Or even instant death if you consider the sheer amount of radiation) and slight damage over time if you stray too close before you reach the danger zone.
Galaxies:
While in general I like the ideas expressed in this section I'm wondering on what kind of scales you had in mind for it. Entire galaxies take up HUGE amounts of space and players (all of them, ever) are only likely to ever use less than 1% of a galaxy (real life scale) in the ENTIRE LIFETIME of starmade. So what kind of ideas do you have concerning that?

From what I can tell two solutions exist (three if you believe that having multiple galaxies that we'll never use is no issue)
1. Scale down galaxies so that it contains a few dozen planetary systems
pro: you can now have multiple galaxies with real need of the extra space (As time goes on).
con: Might erk the "realism first" crowd.
2. Generate only part of the galaxy (such as a spiral arm):
pro: can still have more complex spacing with star systems becoming more clustered near the base of the arm and the centre of the arm with sparse systems near its edges.
cons: If you wanted this to be traversable in a human lifetime you'd still want it to be slightly scaled down but the suspension of disbelief suffers less.

Planets:
While you did advocate planets having orbits I'm not sure that would be ideal considering the time scales planets typically take to move. From a couple years to decades (or a couple dozen days) to the player playing day to day is something like that really relevant? Sure we could have planets orbit in a couple hours but that would feel a bit tacky from at least my point of view. Feel free to disagree but I don't see planetary orbits being put back into the game as being a good idea.

EDIT: There is more but you seem to be camping this thread responding to everything, so I don't want to pile on more paragraphs knowing that.

 

[DemonOrca95]

Black hole section
Is it really necessary? You can tell a black hole by its effects even at great distances, plus anyone with procedural backgrounds on will likely be able to see a solid dark circle pretty easily. And I honestly think that pilot skill (game play) should be important when dealing with possible space hazards, (black holes to dust storms to space thunderstorms(the latter is allowed by rule of cool)).

If we are going to vary the universe making safe navigation skills for dangerous areas of space necessary (risk v.s rewards mechanics anyone?) might be a good idea.

Now I know your original idea included computers to detect black holes like you mentioned in quote but adding a block and functionality for something that any good pilot should be able to do seems kind of redundant. Of course to help locate black holes with ease in some cases (black hole spawns near another system) an accretion disk animation could form around it, (now this might be going too into the details but systems damage via gamma ray bursts from the poles of the black hole anyone? Or even instant death if you consider the sheer amount of radiation) and slight damage over time if you stray too close before you reach the danger zone.
Galaxies:
While in general I like the ideas expressed in this section I'm wondering on what kind of scales you had in mind for it. Entire galaxies take up HUGE amounts of space and players (all of them, ever) are only likely to ever use less than 1% of a galaxy (real life scale) in the ENTIRE LIFETIME of starmade. So what kind of ideas do you have concerning that?

From what I can tell two solutions exist (three if you believe that having multiple galaxies that we'll never use is no issue)
1. Scale down galaxies so that it contains a few dozen planetary systems
pro: you can now have multiple galaxies with real need of the extra space (As time goes on).
con: Might erk the "realism first" crowd.
2. Generate only part of the galaxy (such as a spiral arm):
pro: can still have more complex spacing with star systems becoming more clustered near the base of the arm and the centre of the arm with sparse systems near its edges.
cons: If you wanted this to be traversable in a human lifetime you'd still want it to be slightly scaled down but the suspension of disbelief suffers less.

Planets:
While you did advocate planets having orbits I'm not sure that would be ideal considering the time scales planets typically take to move. From a couple years to decades (or a couple dozen days) to the player playing day to day is something like that really relevant? Sure we could have planets orbit in a couple hours but that would feel a bit tacky from at least my point of view. Feel free to disagree but I don't see planetary orbits being put back into the game as being a good idea.

EDIT: There is more but you seem to be camping this thread responding to everything, so I don't want to pile on more paragraphs knowing that.

Well, for obvious reasons we can't have everything including the galaxies life size. Like you said, galaxies and such could be scaled down. Each one could possibly hundreds of star systems. (If we could avoid breaking the game) If we're able to have the galaxies be massive, I'm curious to know how many we could have at the most and have the game still be fully playable. What's the max amount of sectors in a Starmade Universe anyway? Or the typical number of suns?

 

[Mered4]

Black hole section
Is it really necessary? You can tell a black hole by its effects even at great distances, plus anyone with procedural backgrounds on will likely be able to see a solid dark circle pretty easily. And I honestly think that pilot skill (game play) should be important when dealing with possible space hazards, (black holes to dust storms to space thunderstorms(the latter is allowed by rule of cool)).

If we are going to vary the universe making safe navigation skills for dangerous areas of space necessary (risk v.s rewards mechanics anyone?) might be a good idea.

Now I know your original idea included computers to detect black holes like you mentioned in quote but adding a block and functionality for something that any good pilot should be able to do seems kind of redundant. Of course to help locate black holes with ease in some cases (black hole spawns near another system) an accretion disk animation could form around it, (now this might be going too into the details but systems damage via gamma ray bursts from the poles of the black hole anyone? Or even instant death if you consider the sheer amount of radiation) and slight damage over time if you stray too close before you reach the danger zone.
Galaxies:
While in general I like the ideas expressed in this section I'm wondering on what kind of scales you had in mind for it. Entire galaxies take up HUGE amounts of space and players (all of them, ever) are only likely to ever use less than 1% of a galaxy (real life scale) in the ENTIRE LIFETIME of starmade. So what kind of ideas do you have concerning that?

From what I can tell two solutions exist (three if you believe that having multiple galaxies that we'll never use is no issue)
1. Scale down galaxies so that it contains a few dozen planetary systems
pro: you can now have multiple galaxies with real need of the extra space (As time goes on).
con: Might erk the "realism first" crowd.
2. Generate only part of the galaxy (such as a spiral arm):
pro: can still have more complex spacing with star systems becoming more clustered near the base of the arm and the centre of the arm with sparse systems near its edges.
cons: If you wanted this to be traversable in a human lifetime you'd still want it to be slightly scaled down but the suspension of disbelief suffers less.

Planets:
While you did advocate planets having orbits I'm not sure that would be ideal considering the time scales planets typically take to move. From a couple years to decades (or a couple dozen days) to the player playing day to day is something like that really relevant? Sure we could have planets orbit in a couple hours but that would feel a bit tacky from at least my point of view. Feel free to disagree but I don't see planetary orbits being put back into the game as being a good idea.

EDIT: There is more but you seem to be camping this thread responding to everything, so I don't want to pile on more paragraphs knowing that.

wat? A lone black hole with the mass of 10 or 15 suns in place of a similarly sized star would have no effect on the solar system, except that the gravity would get really really strong near it, and taper off faster when farther away.

If it isn't active, you don't know it's there. That's what is so scary about black holes. For all we know, interplanetary space is riddled with them. Now, we have evidence this isn't true, but it still is possible.

 

[Krazykat]

Well, for obvious reasons we can't have everything including the galaxies life size. Like you said, galaxies and such could be scaled down. Each one could possibly hundreds of star systems. (If we could avoid breaking the game) If we're able to have the galaxies be massive, I'm curious to know how many we could have at the most and have the game still be fully playable. What's the max amount of sectors in a Starmade Universe anyway? Or the typical number of suns?

the biggest problem i have with this, even downscaled, is that the distance between galaxies is even more massive. it would take weeks of puddle-jump warping across empty space to get to a new galaxy. I say we keep it at one large galaxy the generates as you go through it.

 

[DemonOrca95]

the biggest problem i have with this, even downscaled, is that the distance between galaxies is even more massive. it would take weeks of puddle-jump warping across empty space to get to a new galaxy. I say we keep it at one large galaxy the generates as you go through it.

Why do you think we have FTL coming up? xP It'll no doubt take care of the problem of long distance travel, and we don't know what the possibilities are jumpgates might be added in the future.

 

[NeonSturm]

Planetary orbits is pretty much unnecessary unless schema had also planned on introducing all the effects that would come with it such as seasons. I think that's a bit much really so there isn't really a demand for real orbits.

I think it is much easier to navigate in a flat solar system than if you not know which planet is which once you leave and re-enter.

In a realistic sol system rarely 2 stars have the same orbit. Those who have, have the 2 stars still finding their orbit, got them kicked out of orbit or one has a very elliptic circle.
Maybe there are even star systems out there where planets change orbits. The first accelerates the second, the second slows the first -> change orbits? (but dunno, I am not Q (from Star-Trek



The only ways to enter different galaxies could be wormholes, but then there need to be a lot of them or you might get walled-in in one.



I just like the idea that players have choices where to settle (sparse sol systems with a lot of empty space around or dense NPC-populated ones?)

I like the idea of galaxies,, because of the big gap compared to the rather small ones between sol-systems (some people might love to have to travel 30 minutes through the void while others (afraid of nightmares? :p) may prefer 10-second to 2 minute trips between stars only)

Travelling between galaxies could de-buff the ship's power regeneration or require more jump modules ... something specialized.
Galaxies could also separate slip-stream clusters.

But maybe different distance between star-clusters make more sense.


At least I would like to have different distances (10 seconds, 30 minutes), choice of environment (hazardous, calm) without requiring peoples to play on different servers.

 

[Criss]

I think it is much easier to navigate in a flat solar system than if you not know which planet is which once you leave and re-enter.

In a realistic sol system rarely 2 stars have the same orbit. Those who have, have the 2 stars still finding their orbit, got them kicked out of orbit or one has a very elliptic circle.
Maybe there are even star systems out there where planets change orbits. The first accelerates the second, the second slows the first -> change orbits? (but dunno, I am not Q (from Star-Trek

Rouge planets are formed when large planets effect each other. Unless the solar system was newly formed (relatively new) only planets with stable orbits would remain. This is why scientists have found gas giants closer to the sun than terrestrial planets in other star systems. Unless there are interesting yet dangerous things in void sectors/systems, I think we should be careful with the whole flat solar system thing. There should still be some incentive to go out into empty space. Currently there is none.

Why do you think we have FTL coming up? xP It'll no doubt take care of the problem of long distance travel, and we don't know what the possibilities are jumpgates might be added in the future.

Jumpgates are already in the dev build. They are limited to 8 systems I think? It might be four. Personally I think the capabilities of the gate should scale up to a hard limit of 8 or something. If its not powerful enough it should only be capable of hitting a lower number. It'll give a reason to build multiple gate sizes instead of making a small ring that can teleport you 8 systems away.

 

[NeonSturm]

I think we should be careful with the whole flat solar system thing. There should still be some incentive to go out into empty space.

At least it would make distances between 2 horizontal-aligned different if they are next or on top of each other.

I support everything that creates patterns in this too uniform universe.

 

[Krazykat]

Why do you think we have FTL coming up? xP It'll no doubt take care of the problem of long distance travel, and we don't know what the possibilities are jumpgates might be added in the future.

billions of years for light to travel that distance, even with ftl we are still looking at something way too massive to implement

 

[max stripe]

Rouge planets are formed when large planets effect each other. Unless the solar system was newly formed (relatively new) only planets with stable orbits would remain. This is why scientists have found gas giants closer to the sun than terrestrial planets in other star systems. Unless there are interesting yet dangerous things in void sectors/systems, I think we should be careful with the whole flat solar system thing. There should still be some incentive to go out into empty space. Currently there is none.



Jumpgates are already in the dev build. They are limited to 8 systems I think? It might be four. Personally I think the capabilities of the gate should scale up to a hard limit of 8 or something. If its not powerful enough it should only be capable of hitting a lower number. It'll give a reason to build multiple gate sizes instead of making a small ring that can teleport you 8 systems away.

gatea are 128sectors jumpdrives are 8

 

[Criss]

gatea are 128sectors jumpdrives are 8

128 sectors = 8 systems

 

[Mered4]

gatea are 128sectors jumpdrives are 8

Hyperdrives are currently an unknown factor. We really have no idea how they will be scaled or how customizable they'll be.

From what I understand, This whole system is based ins some way on how Stargate portrays FTL:

Short ranged jumps for smaller ships
Warpgates for long distance travel
Hyperdrives for larger and faster ships.

So it could be that the hyperdrive will just be more convenient in some way, or less convenient. Either way, it won't make inter-galactic travel possible - but again, we haven't a clue until schema throws it into the dev build.