Planned Lower refined material volume.

[hinkhenk]

I would suggest lowering the material volume of refined ores and crystals, becaus refined material take up more space than the raw material.
As i am watching my factories work, i notice my storage is getting fuller and fuller, eventhough with .1% a few seconds interval.
I do not know what material, if its capsules or anything else.

Note, only my refiner is running.

 

[HolyCookie]

I would suggest lowering the material volume of refined ores and crystals, becaus refined material take up more space than the raw material.
As i am watching my factories work, i notice my storage is getting fuller and fuller, eventhough with .1% a few seconds interval.
I do not know what material, if its capsules or anything else.

Note, only my refiner is running.

According to the descriptions, they are 100% the same mass. Maybe they give more capsules per ore?

 

[MacThule]

Refined ores/minerals are definitely a little more massive than raw. I assumed that was deliberate on the basis that separating something into it's component parts requires a bit more space.

 

[HolyCookie]

Refined ores/minerals are definitely a little more massive than raw. I assumed that was deliberate on the basis that separating something into it's component parts requires a bit more space.

subtracting apples from oranges doesn't require more space and definitely not more mass. When something is refined the bad stuff (like bits of rock and such) are filtered out of the mixtures through various ways. You are REMOVING substances (as the description of capsules say pure) So logically capsules should require less space and less mass. Unless their encasing (stated in the capsule description) is added to the calculation.

Ps: I hope you like apples

 

[Madman198237]

Several capsules come from every ore. Overall, you (Completely illogically) gain volume. Even with crappy inefficient packaging, ores are generally 9/10ths waste material. Rock, impurities, other minerals, all of it gets processed out of the pure material. You should lose a lot of volume during processing.

 

[Groovrider]

As processing happens on stations, was this perhaps a way to let cargo haulers carry meaningful amounts without undue difficulty?

 

[hinkhenk]

If we do get to count in the storage space of capsules, for example, the volume should be lower anyway, becaus we use our rescources to make the capsules too, right, so the only thing we do remove is waste, but instead we gain in volume.

 

[NTIMESc]

Shouldn't the volume stay the same, as the alloyed metal mesh and crystal composite make up the byproducts removed from the pure capsule contents?

 

[MacThule]

subtracting apples from oranges doesn't require more space and definitely not more mass. When something is refined the bad stuff (like bits of rock and such) are filtered out of the mixtures through various ways. You are REMOVING substances (as the description of capsules say pure) So logically capsules should require less space and less mass. Unless their encasing (stated in the capsule description) is added to the calculation.

Ps: I hope you like apples

*EDIT*
Sorry - I tried responding to this from a phone and it wouldn't let me type anything. Didn't realize it posted a random blank reply.

So anyway... :D

These aren't apples though, Holy. So if you're going to invoke Logic, I think we should stick with the subject matter. Because "subtracting" apples from oranges is a different matter entirely from the storage of what is left after refining ores; there's no abstract subtraction involved in mechanical processes.

Refining ore can involve taking a monolithic piece of ore (i.e. compound rock made of various elements including valuable minerals) and breaking it into component elements (mechanically, chemically, or thermally). What was once a tightly coherent single item of relatively low volume (a rock), becomes a collection of various different materials. In order for the refinement to be significant, the individual components have to stored separately (if you stored them all piled together to save space they'd still be just... ore). Storing those components separately can require more spatial volume to accomplish than is required to store the same mass of elements when they are not being deliberately kept separate from each other. Storing disparate elements in separate containers takes up more space than storing stuff all smooshed together (especially smooshed together in the way rock & minerals are in unbroken, unrefined ore, which is tightly compressed).

Even if we pretended that storing the various elements of an ore separately after refining didn't require more space than storing the original solid ore... sand takes up more room than compressed, monolithic stone of the mass of the same materials because there is space between the grains. Grind up 'roids and they're going to be fluffier. Seems straightforward to me, but I could be wrong.

Not saying this is exactly why the Starmade system makes refined elements more voluminous than unrefined ore, only that it's not necessarily a bug because it's not completely irrational. No more irrational than FTL drives or infinite reincarnation after death, anyway. It's not necessarily broken.

 

[NTIMESc]

The issue seems to be that 1 raw material(input) produces 5 capsules and 10 basic materials(output). The input volume is 10x more per unit(0.01), but the output quantiy is 15x more which is 50% more volume(0.001*5 +0.001*10 = 0.001*15 = 0.015)

I'm not sure what you were trying to illustrate, MacThule.

 

[MacThule]

The issue seems to be that 1 raw material(input) produces 5 capsules and 10 basic materials(output). The input volume is 10x more per unit(0.01), but the output quantiy is 15x more which is 50% more volume(0.001*5 +0.001*10 = 0.001*15 = 0.015)

I'm not sure what you were trying to illustrate, MacThule.

I wasn't drawing anything

 

[hinkhenk]

If this is the case, where the capsules takes up more space, the creation of "tanks" for various material should be implemented, only taking out a small portion of material as it is needed. This way, the volume(if we would count in the capsule size) would be greatly smaller, right?

*This is a bit off topic*
Or change the refining process all together, treat the refined ores as liquids, to be stored in tanks, connected with pipes

Well, it would be an interesting concept, acually being able to refine stuff on ships, instead of pulling from rail to storage, have pipes connect together for fluid flow.
(If we want to go into concept as a "real" fluid, no, the tanks would just be presurized for a flow in the pipe system.)

 

[Nickizzy]

If this is the case, where the capsules takes up more space, the creation of "tanks" for various material should be implemented, only taking out a small portion of material as it is needed. This way, the volume(if we would count in the capsule size) would be greatly smaller, right?

*This is a bit off topic*
Or change the refining process all together, treat the refined ores as liquids, to be stored in tanks, connected with pipes

Well, it would be an interesting concept, acually being able to refine stuff on ships, instead of pulling from rail to storage, have pipes connect together for fluid flow.
(If we want to go into concept as a "real" fluid, no, the tanks would just be presurized for a flow in the pipe system.)

Hmmm, as in, capsules are like barrels of pure resources, and "pure storages" that only can hold one type of capsule at a time, but each capsule takes up a tenth of the space or something. Reminds me of a lot of minecraft modpacks. Cool.

 

[HolyCookie]

Hai,
Congrats! This suggestion has been recognised by the council and the devs, it has been added to the phabricator workflow. You can check out all the accepted suggestions that have been added to the planned list over here Group Council · Workboard
(you have to scroll all the way to the right to see them)

I hope many more fine suggestions will come from you.

For reference:
T1758 Lower the mass of refined materials

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- Andy