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I'm Reposting this because I think the discussion and Ideas thrown around by myself and other community members was very good on this subject. The OP is just a copy paste from the old forum. I have not changed any responses. Warning.... wall of text to read entire OP.
Sgtwisky
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Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
Long Range Sensors and Navagation
While playing starmade and exploring space I have (like most of you) used waypoints and the Nav Tab to search for stations, avoid rival faction ships (or hunt them), and plot a direct course home. During all that traveling I couldn't help but feel that the system could be better than it is now. After thinking about this for a while I came up with the idea of a long range sensor array.
The array could be placed in a similar fashion to weapon arrays. It would have a sensor computer and sensor blocks. There would be two types of sensor arrays. The first type of array would be active continually and consume power. The second type would only function when the player activates it. Much like the way cloaking/jamming works. While activated the second type would consume more energy but would also allow a longer range of scanning and would provide more information than the first type.
All ships will have a default sensor that works similar to our current navigation. Within a radius of about 1km (or whatever visual range is) it would detect objects (ships, planets, asteroids, etc.) and would provide basic info for each object. It would tell you the distance the object is from you, the mass of the object, and if it is an enemy, ally, or neutral. It would also tell you what the object was.
Now the long range sensors would do a few things. First they would increase the overall range that objects are detected depends on the number of sensor blocks in the array (they should have diminishing returns). The outer reaches of the sensors say the last 20% would only tell you that there is an object there, how far it is, and its mass. Once an object got closer than that say the next 20% of the radius you would also get info about what type of object it is and for planets you could tell what type it was, such as ice or desert. Then once it gets to 60% of your range you can also detect weather its enemy, neutral or ally, you could tell if its a pirate station or a normal one. I just used 20% increments as an example and this is also assuming this is for the first type. I am sure that this would need balancing done and I am not the one to do it.
Here is an example of how the system could possibly work.
Example
Using sensor type one lets say you have a max scan range of 3.5km. Using the numbers from above when an object is within 2.1km you get all the info about it possible. When its 2101m to 2800m you would only know what type of object it was, its mass, and its distance from you. Also in a planets case you would tell what type it was. Then from 2801m to 3.5km you would only know that there is an object, how far it was and its mass.
Another point to be made is it would allow players to attempt to size up their opponants before they actually engage, OR allow some of the really long range ships to shoot in the rough direction of a target without having a visual on it. This could potentially add to combat. It would also allow players to avoid combat if they had a better sensor array. Jamming would still be useful for smaller ships to avoid getting shot at at long range from “sniper” capitals. I think exploring could also benefit from this system. If your looking for a certain planet type (and like me cant remember what color means what) you can tell what it is before you reach it.
A final pint I want to mention is that when we get auto pilot(I heard it was planed but I may be wrong. If so ignore this) is that by default a ship could have a limited auto pilot range say somewhere in between 10km – 20km. But with better sensor array's you could increase it dramatically. But this is just sort of a side thought.
looking forward to hearing everyones thoughts on this !
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Thu, 01/09/2014 - 02:12
#2
Darth Plaigus
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Last seen: 3 days 15 hours ago
Joined: 06/20/2013 - 08:58
+1 like this
Like the idea of this. be cool to have sensor rods poking out of ships. gives something to target. come in with a smaller ship blow it up, they're dead in the water. Then move in with the fleat and take them out before they knew what hit them.
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Thu, 01/09/2014 - 12:23
#3
Springy150
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Last seen: 3 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 19:22
+1
This is a cracking idea
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Sat, 01/11/2014 - 05:37
#4
NeonSturm
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Last seen: 3 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 12/31/2013 - 12:25
+1
Please do different jam/cloak strenghts too (jammed outside of ship-radius*x).
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Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:21
#5
Sgtwisky
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Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
Nice....
Idea NeonSturm. To add Jam/cloak strengths would add alot to the sensor system. The power usage would have to be changed though for it to be usable. not sure how the energy usage could be altered to acomadate (im assuming you need more cloak or jammer blocks to add strength). I think at their current point it would be near impossible to make a nice strong cloaking device for this system for even small ships if each one added to the energy cost.
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Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:22
#6
NeonSturm
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Last seen: 3 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 12/31/2013 - 12:25
.
Another idea:
Your system sees signatures, but no exact details at long range?
Should we give sectors some signature (on a map). Weapon fire increases the weapon-signature (light/optical/emp) for some time, warps are also visible (cause huge "quantum" disortion-waves, etc.
I may work a bit faster to broadcast just a list of sector-activities to the neighbours as to broadcast data from all ships inside to nearby players/sectors and you fetch the an more exact list of the sector you are focusing your intel devices on.
Planets and stations could have bigger arrays (they don't need thrusters and don't cause lag by size if you not build a bridge between planets - different sectors).
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Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:39
#7
Sgtwisky
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Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
hum....
hum....
Building on those suggestions to the system wouldn't it then allow the "tracking" of another ship by their engine signiture? maybe you can tell the path a ship took if it was there not too long ago? hum... I like your constructive feed back ! Knowing weather a battle occured in the sector your in or in a sector that was close could also be a heads up that you may want to take another route OR that the guy that just killed your faction buddy just took down another target.
I also never considered people might put the sensors on stations or planets, but I can see how that could give an advanced warning if you were going to be under attack.
Maybe a seprate type of sensor would work best for the info that is left behind in a sector. As that information is much smaller and less tangable than ships and planets. Maybe using the new wepon system we know about we could modify a sensor array to pickup that stuff at the cost of range(infact with that in mind any sensor vareation should use the new wepon system I think)? Another modifacation might also be a sensor that can give lots of info about both and has a long range but only works in the direction your ship is facing. Not sure if that one should be actavated or not though.
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Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:48
#8
Snk
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Last seen: 2 days 16 hours ago
Joined: 08/30/2013 - 03:01
+1
+1
I've always liked the idea of long range sensors. What do you guys think of making it so you get an alert when an AI detects some hostile? That way you could control large amounts of territory and monitor it.
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Mon, 01/13/2014 - 17:20
#9
Sgtwisky
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Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
I think
that could be intresting. somewhat like a beacon with sensors that you can place with a faction block and it would transmit to your faction(only your faction would get the messages because we dont want transmission spam). It could be something you build so you could add shields to it and power maybe some turrets if you wanted. Message could be something like:
###############
Beacon (2, 6, -5)
Enemy Detected!
##############
it could also tell you if it came under attack or was distroyed. I think in this case it might need a "transmitter" as well. so the more transmitter blocks you add to it the further it can transmit. so It could detect enemy forces using the long range sensors then would have to transmit the info. So you would recieve it if you were in range. OR maybe it could post its message into the faction message board. ether could be done or both.
lol if we keep coming up with good additions to the system I may have to rewrite the OP and include some of them XD.
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Mon, 01/13/2014 - 20:04
(Reply to #9) #10
xino
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Last seen: 3 days 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/30/2013 - 06:37
To impliment this in an
To impliment this in an effective way we would need a new messaging system. If the info just went on your faction chat, when you are not online there would be no way to retrieve that info, or you could miss it. I think it would have to use a message system that stays on the screen untill you dismiss it. And if you request it on the messenger then the station can send you live info on the enemy ship like: distance, speed, position (sector), target, or even damage, along with the staions information.
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Mon, 01/13/2014 - 23:41
#11
zorozeenee
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Last seen: 3 days 20 hours ago
Joined: 07/22/2013 - 06:27
Like from homeworld
+1
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Tue, 01/14/2014 - 01:14
#12
Sgtwisky
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Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
...
hum I like the idea of being able to look up the info the stations/becons send but in a way I like the current setup where if noone is on then noone gets notified. In a way that seems more realistic. Kinda like a lone pilot sending a message to their faction to help but that pilot is the only one on at the time. But for gameplay I could see how there would be a need to get data at a latter time. For the time being it could use the standard message format we have and once we get a chat update (assuming we get one) it could then be migrated over too.
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Tue, 01/14/2014 - 02:03
#13
MineCatFTW
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Last seen: 3 days 17 hours ago
Joined: 06/20/2013 - 00:41
This would add a lot of
This would add a lot of strategy to faction warfare, as well as hunting people down. +1!
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Tue, 01/14/2014 - 05:20
#14
NeonSturm
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Joined: 12/31/2013 - 12:25
bounty hunting
^this^
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Fri, 01/31/2014 - 19:05
#15
Hunter Shoptaw
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Last seen: 3 days 17 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2014 - 02:58
Okay after reading this thread...
All I could think is, why not have a block to record logs. You could have it set to monitor the output of particular blocks, like shop access, beacon messages, sensor readings, etc. This could be a seperate block in your ship that you'd have to tie the sensor outputs to. Or, and it's complicated, but have a seperate sensor block to. Then you lay down a shop block, connect a sensor block to it, connect the sensor block to a log block. This way you have to build things, not just place one block. You'd have to build a becon, and power it, and provide shielding, because if a cruiser came by and shot out the beacon before it registered on it's sensors (seperate block) you'd have no clue. I think this would add a bit of strategy to the game.
I'd also like to see a broadcast beacon, so you can place markers for yourself or warning markers for other ships. This would add the ability to designate territories and add a bit more visibility to territory wars, not to mention the ability to designate who owns a structure/ship and IFF.
Lastly, I think it would be nice to build a sensor array much the same way we do docks. increase the range by increasing the number of array enhancers attached. Larger ships could then house larger arrays.
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Fri, 01/31/2014 - 19:14
(Reply to #15) #16
NeonSturm
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Last seen: 3 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 12/31/2013 - 12:25
Maybe
we can do it by ourselves?
I dunno which data is stored in our logfiles, but there seems to be data about other players.
We just need a program that parses all that information. Nobody will know which peoples will use it.
Top
Fri, 01/31/2014 - 19:25
(Reply to #16) #17
Hunter Shoptaw
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Last seen: 3 days 17 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2014 - 02:58
But
Does it show activites when you're not logged on. I mean as a player on someone else's server, I don't believe I could see what happened to my base or in my sector if I wasn't on at the time. Am I wrong here?
Sgtwisky
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
Long Range Sensors and Navagation
While playing starmade and exploring space I have (like most of you) used waypoints and the Nav Tab to search for stations, avoid rival faction ships (or hunt them), and plot a direct course home. During all that traveling I couldn't help but feel that the system could be better than it is now. After thinking about this for a while I came up with the idea of a long range sensor array.
The array could be placed in a similar fashion to weapon arrays. It would have a sensor computer and sensor blocks. There would be two types of sensor arrays. The first type of array would be active continually and consume power. The second type would only function when the player activates it. Much like the way cloaking/jamming works. While activated the second type would consume more energy but would also allow a longer range of scanning and would provide more information than the first type.
All ships will have a default sensor that works similar to our current navigation. Within a radius of about 1km (or whatever visual range is) it would detect objects (ships, planets, asteroids, etc.) and would provide basic info for each object. It would tell you the distance the object is from you, the mass of the object, and if it is an enemy, ally, or neutral. It would also tell you what the object was.
Now the long range sensors would do a few things. First they would increase the overall range that objects are detected depends on the number of sensor blocks in the array (they should have diminishing returns). The outer reaches of the sensors say the last 20% would only tell you that there is an object there, how far it is, and its mass. Once an object got closer than that say the next 20% of the radius you would also get info about what type of object it is and for planets you could tell what type it was, such as ice or desert. Then once it gets to 60% of your range you can also detect weather its enemy, neutral or ally, you could tell if its a pirate station or a normal one. I just used 20% increments as an example and this is also assuming this is for the first type. I am sure that this would need balancing done and I am not the one to do it.
Here is an example of how the system could possibly work.
Example
Using sensor type one lets say you have a max scan range of 3.5km. Using the numbers from above when an object is within 2.1km you get all the info about it possible. When its 2101m to 2800m you would only know what type of object it was, its mass, and its distance from you. Also in a planets case you would tell what type it was. Then from 2801m to 3.5km you would only know that there is an object, how far it was and its mass.
Another point to be made is it would allow players to attempt to size up their opponants before they actually engage, OR allow some of the really long range ships to shoot in the rough direction of a target without having a visual on it. This could potentially add to combat. It would also allow players to avoid combat if they had a better sensor array. Jamming would still be useful for smaller ships to avoid getting shot at at long range from “sniper” capitals. I think exploring could also benefit from this system. If your looking for a certain planet type (and like me cant remember what color means what) you can tell what it is before you reach it.
A final pint I want to mention is that when we get auto pilot(I heard it was planed but I may be wrong. If so ignore this) is that by default a ship could have a limited auto pilot range say somewhere in between 10km – 20km. But with better sensor array's you could increase it dramatically. But this is just sort of a side thought.
looking forward to hearing everyones thoughts on this !
Top
Thu, 01/09/2014 - 02:12
#2
Darth Plaigus
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Last seen: 3 days 15 hours ago
Joined: 06/20/2013 - 08:58
+1 like this
Like the idea of this. be cool to have sensor rods poking out of ships. gives something to target. come in with a smaller ship blow it up, they're dead in the water. Then move in with the fleat and take them out before they knew what hit them.
Top
Thu, 01/09/2014 - 12:23
#3
Springy150
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Last seen: 3 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 19:22
+1
This is a cracking idea
Top
Sat, 01/11/2014 - 05:37
#4
NeonSturm
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Last seen: 3 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 12/31/2013 - 12:25
+1
Please do different jam/cloak strenghts too (jammed outside of ship-radius*x).
Top
Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:21
#5
Sgtwisky
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Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
Nice....
Idea NeonSturm. To add Jam/cloak strengths would add alot to the sensor system. The power usage would have to be changed though for it to be usable. not sure how the energy usage could be altered to acomadate (im assuming you need more cloak or jammer blocks to add strength). I think at their current point it would be near impossible to make a nice strong cloaking device for this system for even small ships if each one added to the energy cost.
Top
Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:22
#6
NeonSturm
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 12/31/2013 - 12:25
.
Another idea:
Your system sees signatures, but no exact details at long range?
Should we give sectors some signature (on a map). Weapon fire increases the weapon-signature (light/optical/emp) for some time, warps are also visible (cause huge "quantum" disortion-waves
, etc.I may work a bit faster to broadcast just a list of sector-activities to the neighbours as to broadcast data from all ships inside to nearby players/sectors and you fetch the an more exact list of the sector you are focusing your intel devices on.
Planets and stations could have bigger arrays (they don't need thrusters and don't cause lag by size if you not build a bridge between planets - different sectors).
Top
Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:39
#7
Sgtwisky
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
hum....
hum....
Building on those suggestions to the system wouldn't it then allow the "tracking" of another ship by their engine signiture? maybe you can tell the path a ship took if it was there not too long ago? hum... I like your constructive feed back ! Knowing weather a battle occured in the sector your in or in a sector that was close could also be a heads up that you may want to take another route OR that the guy that just killed your faction buddy just took down another target.
I also never considered people might put the sensors on stations or planets, but I can see how that could give an advanced warning if you were going to be under attack.
Maybe a seprate type of sensor would work best for the info that is left behind in a sector. As that information is much smaller and less tangable than ships and planets. Maybe using the new wepon system we know about we could modify a sensor array to pickup that stuff at the cost of range(infact with that in mind any sensor vareation should use the new wepon system I think)? Another modifacation might also be a sensor that can give lots of info about both and has a long range but only works in the direction your ship is facing. Not sure if that one should be actavated or not though.
Top
Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:48
#8
Snk
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 16 hours ago
Joined: 08/30/2013 - 03:01
+1
+1
I've always liked the idea of long range sensors. What do you guys think of making it so you get an alert when an AI detects some hostile? That way you could control large amounts of territory and monitor it.
Top
Mon, 01/13/2014 - 17:20
#9
Sgtwisky
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
I think
that could be intresting. somewhat like a beacon with sensors that you can place with a faction block and it would transmit to your faction(only your faction would get the messages because we dont want transmission spam). It could be something you build so you could add shields to it and power maybe some turrets if you wanted. Message could be something like:
###############
Beacon (2, 6, -5)
Enemy Detected!
##############
it could also tell you if it came under attack or was distroyed. I think in this case it might need a "transmitter" as well. so the more transmitter blocks you add to it the further it can transmit. so It could detect enemy forces using the long range sensors then would have to transmit the info. So you would recieve it if you were in range. OR maybe it could post its message into the faction message board. ether could be done or both.
lol if we keep coming up with good additions to the system I may have to rewrite the OP and include some of them XD.
Top
Mon, 01/13/2014 - 20:04
(Reply to #9) #10
xino
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 16 hours ago
Joined: 09/30/2013 - 06:37
To impliment this in an
To impliment this in an effective way we would need a new messaging system. If the info just went on your faction chat, when you are not online there would be no way to retrieve that info, or you could miss it. I think it would have to use a message system that stays on the screen untill you dismiss it. And if you request it on the messenger then the station can send you live info on the enemy ship like: distance, speed, position (sector), target, or even damage, along with the staions information.
Top
Mon, 01/13/2014 - 23:41
#11
zorozeenee
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Last seen: 3 days 20 hours ago
Joined: 07/22/2013 - 06:27
Like from homeworld
+1
Top
Tue, 01/14/2014 - 01:14
#12
Sgtwisky
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 12/03/2013 - 03:40
...
hum I like the idea of being able to look up the info the stations/becons send but in a way I like the current setup where if noone is on then noone gets notified. In a way that seems more realistic. Kinda like a lone pilot sending a message to their faction to help but that pilot is the only one on at the time. But for gameplay I could see how there would be a need to get data at a latter time. For the time being it could use the standard message format we have and once we get a chat update (assuming we get one) it could then be migrated over too.
Top
Tue, 01/14/2014 - 02:03
#13
MineCatFTW
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 17 hours ago
Joined: 06/20/2013 - 00:41
This would add a lot of
This would add a lot of strategy to faction warfare, as well as hunting people down. +1!
Top
Tue, 01/14/2014 - 05:20
#14
NeonSturm
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Last seen: 3 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 12/31/2013 - 12:25
bounty hunting
^this^
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Fri, 01/31/2014 - 19:05
#15
Hunter Shoptaw
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 17 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2014 - 02:58
Okay after reading this thread...
All I could think is, why not have a block to record logs. You could have it set to monitor the output of particular blocks, like shop access, beacon messages, sensor readings, etc. This could be a seperate block in your ship that you'd have to tie the sensor outputs to. Or, and it's complicated, but have a seperate sensor block to. Then you lay down a shop block, connect a sensor block to it, connect the sensor block to a log block. This way you have to build things, not just place one block. You'd have to build a becon, and power it, and provide shielding, because if a cruiser came by and shot out the beacon before it registered on it's sensors (seperate block) you'd have no clue. I think this would add a bit of strategy to the game.
I'd also like to see a broadcast beacon, so you can place markers for yourself or warning markers for other ships. This would add the ability to designate territories and add a bit more visibility to territory wars, not to mention the ability to designate who owns a structure/ship and IFF.
Lastly, I think it would be nice to build a sensor array much the same way we do docks. increase the range by increasing the number of array enhancers attached. Larger ships could then house larger arrays.
Top
Fri, 01/31/2014 - 19:14
(Reply to #15) #16
NeonSturm
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 12/31/2013 - 12:25
Maybe
we can do it by ourselves?
I dunno which data is stored in our logfiles, but there seems to be data about other players.
We just need a program that parses all that information. Nobody will know which peoples will use it.
Top
Fri, 01/31/2014 - 19:25
(Reply to #16) #17
Hunter Shoptaw
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 17 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2014 - 02:58
But
Does it show activites when you're not logged on. I mean as a player on someone else's server, I don't believe I could see what happened to my base or in my sector if I wasn't on at the time. Am I wrong here?
