Logic across docked entities

[FunnyBunny14]

If a ship is docked to another ship or a station, it should be possible to use logic across those entities. How? Well, there would be two new blocks: a receiver and a transmitter. It would basically act like a wireless receiver, but it it would only work while docked. They would each have their own frequency, ranging from 0 to 9999, and to interact they would have to be on the same frequency. There would be an option to limit the people who could use it based on faction. That means that you can set it to allow more than one faction (or non-faction) type: own, ally, or neutral (for obvious reasons not enemy).

This would allow for small or large interactions while docked. I'd also like to propose that the receiver and transmitter can receive and transmit blocks, to allow cross-entity storage exchange.[DOUBLEPOST=1414746369,1414743698][/DOUBLEPOST]Would it be a good idea to also have an option to allow logic transfers while inside a docking area? One good thing that would come from that is that it would become easier to allow automatic docking (and then only while already inside the docking area). To do this a docking module would be connected to a ttansmitter, and the receiver on the ship would be connected to the core. When the ship then comes in a docking area with the same frequency, and a signal gets transmitted via the docking module (which then becomes able to let logic pass through) and the transmitter, the ship would dock.

 

[CyberTao]

Or, we could just get a 'docking-beam-block' o- o a block that fires what is basically a docking beam, allowing it to activate logic blocks, trigger lights and plex doors, and dock objects without having to point the ship at a tiny little block. Just a thought.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Or, we could just get a 'docking-beam-block' o- o a block that fires what is basically a docking beam, allowing it to activate logic blocks, trigger lights and plex doors, and dock objects without having to point the ship at a tiny little block. Just a thought.

No, that would require great precision. I firmly believe that this is a lot easier.

And why on earth would you want to re-invent the wheel? We currently already can activate lights and doors using logic, why would we also need a beam? The transmitter and receiver also allow for a lot more customization and uses (they can have ten thousand connections!).

 

[CyberTao]

No, that would require great precision. I firmly believe that this is a lot easier.

And why on earth would you want to re-invent the wheel? We currently already can activate lights and doors using logic, why would we also need a beam? The transmitter and receiver also allow for a lot more customization and uses (they can have ten thousand connections!).

Docked objects are locked in place anyways, and people already use docking beams to activate some things, since it already can. It's not reinventing anything, just moving 1 feature to a different form to present more uses. I would more or less want this for trams and elevators o -o

 

[ltmauve]

[DOUBLEPOST=1414746369,1414743698][/DOUBLEPOST]Would it be a good idea to also have an option to allow logic transfers while inside a docking area? One good thing that would come from that is that it would become easier to allow automatic docking (and then only while already inside the docking area). To do this a docking module would be connected to a ttansmitter, and the receiver on the ship would be connected to the core. When the ship then comes in a docking area with the same frequency, and a signal gets transmitted via the docking module (which then becomes able to let logic pass through) and the transmitter, the ship would dock.

There's an idea out there for a "recall beam" that I think would work better, as you could use it to pick up a bunch of drones or to be a method for auto-docking your own ship.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

This idea is to allow automated things to be easily done without having to leave the mothership. It also will allow for more interaction during minigames (like flying through a docking area to trigger overdrive), and it also allows for automated ship parking.

There's an idea out there for a "recall beam" that I think would work better, as you could use it to pick up a bunch of drones or to be a method for auto-docking your own ship.

I am aware of this suggestion, but the recall beam isn't what I want. It is nice, but overpowered. Please keep in mind that automated docking is not the main goal of this suggestion, it's just something nice that can come with it (which I only realised later by the way).

Docked objects are locked in place anyways, and people already use docking beams to activate some things, since it already can.

I basically am to lazy to jump from ship to ship to station to build block to activate one activator, and then jump back again. And I really hope that other people don't like doing that either (it is very tedious stuff you currently have to do to achieve something that normally would be simple).
Plus if you miss-fire your docking beam you won't be so happy once collision damage works and the ship you're docked to is flying.

Just a small story as to why I created this thread:
I want to create a ship with multiple tools that can be docked, and then easily triggered. I also want to create a station to automatically park (dock) those tools. And then I realised the potential this idea had, so I created this thread.

 

[jayman38]

I think the folks who are arguing against such a system are thinking only about a single logic interaction between a mothership and a daughtership. The OP suggestion would allow multiple logic connections, so I think it is a really great idea.

At one point, NeonSturm had an idea for a transmit block that transmitted a whole byte or some other set of multiple signals. This OP suggestion would be an adequate replacement for that idea. (At least up to a certain point, beyond which the number of transmission blocks would exceed the available surface space shared between the two structures.) This would allow more modular logic docking.

Example of surface space sharing: A mothership with a 49x99 surface area exposed to the docking area, and a daughtership with a 19x49 docking area shared, would have a maximum possible logic transmission count of up to 19x49-1 = 930 unique logic signals shared. (subtracted one for the actual docking block, but maybe the transmitter and receiver could work from behind other blocks? In which case, the logic signals would not be limited by the shared surface area, but by the maximum length of the logic signal beam.)

 

[FunnyBunny14]

This isn't limited to surface area of the ship though, it isn't tied to surface areas at all actually. The logic transmitter and receiver can be anywhere on an entity, and the only reason I put a limit to the amount of frequencies is because I don't think the game can handle lots of "wireless" logic. Besides, nobody ever is going to need more than 10 000 logic connections between entities, as most of the logic can still be on one entity, and the transmitters/receivers really only are required a few times for interactions.

As for the linking to docking modules, I just thought it would be something relatively easy that could be added, and that it would make a lot more things possible (such as, but obviously not limited to, the new function of automatic docking while in the docking area).

I actually didn't know that @NeonSturm had a receiver suggestion too. Anyway, the last logic suggestion I could find had the last post posted in august, and since I didn't want to necro a thread, and my idea was different anyway, I created this thread.

Edit: And just to clarify what could be misunderstood, only one ship needs to be in a docking area for the logic transmitters/receivers to work.

 

[Keptick]

I think that the actual way will be with the marker beam gun currently used to link warp gates. So basically same thing but with logic across entities. If that's not how it's planned then I think that it would be a nice easy-ish to implement and intuitive way of doing it.

 

[ltmauve]

I think that the actual way will be with the marker beam gun currently used to link warp gates. So basically same thing but with logic across entities. If that's not how it's planned then I think that it would be a nice easy-ish to implement and intuitive way of doing it.

Except then you don't get a swappable tools. Also, having logic remotely controlled may be a bit OP. Not to mention the annoyance of linking several things in a row, as opposed to setting a bunch of numbers and then going to another ship and setting a bunch of numbers.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

↑ This. It really explains my point of view. Logic across entities with no hard to achieve range will result in very overpower constructions. Sure, it would be interesting to do things remotely, but it kind of eliminates the use of ships travelling between stations.

I also agree that using the marker beam would be a lot more complicated than it should be.

 

[NeonSturm]

My suggestion was to have a (de)multiplexer

Example:

cb
c
s1 b1 b2 b3
s1 b1 b2 b3

cb = controller cblock
c = clock
sn = segment used
bn = bit used & set​

s1 5+5 bit recipient (faction ID + member ID |or| entity #x in this sector?)
s2 x bit signal handler (aka 80=http, 21=ftp, ...)
s3+ signal

You would need about 15 blocks to setup your antenna, which would balance the drones minimum size also.

The signal (3.) may have be segmented like:

s3 Drone-Number
s4 signal XOR password
s5 password number

one of two in alternating order to confuse enemies in the simplest case
but you may also use one-time passwords received like with online-banking​

Each antenna has a cooldown equal to it's total block count.
More data, longer CD - you might want multiple antennas or broadcast addresses.​

I know it sounds complex, but this is the simplest way to implement hacking, security and balance it without adding many different things.

If you think "fuck, 3-4 mass for antenna", your drones are probably CPU-spam because of their numbers.