Jump distance based on max speed.

[Scypio]

Just thought about it yesterday and found it really interesting. Having the jump distance based on the max speed possible on the ship is a good way to promote small ships, or at least fast ship, to travel. This would promote carrier, ship to dock before jumping or jump ring and so on too.

For example, let's take a 10km jump distance and 100m/s max speed. I know that isn't the base values but they're round and easy to pick for a small example.
If your vessel got the max speed, it would jump the max distance, known as 10km in this example. If the ship got only 50 m/s max speed, then it's only half of this max distance, 5km.

Maybe add a minimal value for jump distance for immobile ships or docked reactors. That way they won't jump nowhere. I don't know what to think about overdrives and counting them for the purpose of the max speed and max jump distance.

Let me know what you think, bad or good idea ?

 

[Erth Paradine]

Just thought about it yesterday and found it really interesting. Having the jump distance based on the max speed possible on the ship is a good way to promote small ships, or at least fast ship, to travel. This would promote carrier, ship to dock before jumping or jump ring and so on too.

For example, let's take a 10km jump distance and 100m/s max speed. I know that isn't the base values but they're round and easy to pick for a small example.
If your vessel got the max speed, it would jump the max distance, known as 10km in this example. If the ship got only 50 m/s max speed, then it's only half of this max distance, 5km.

Maybe add a minimal value for jump distance for immobile ships or docked reactors. That way they won't jump nowhere. I don't know what to think about overdrives and counting them for the purpose of the max speed and max jump distance.

Let me know what you think, bad or good idea ?

So a maximum jump distance that varies based upon a specific ship's max speed? I like that idea.

 

[Lukwan]

Like.

 

[jayman38]

It's interesting, but I think it goes against expectations. You expect a large vessel to be capable of long-distance jumps, even with slow thrust.

Distance as an additional function of system efficiency would be a different matter. I think distance based on FTL system efficiency would be the better cause of shorter jump ranges. (50% of the blocks you need? Not only does it take longer to charge, but you can only go half the distance.)

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

The jump mechanics are already very punishing of large ships/heavy ships. I don't think they need to be punished any more. If you are large and armored you more or less have to waste thousands of blocks into a jump drive to save 20 seconds per jump or just go with a small drive and wait the 48 seconds. If all the sudden you also were not able to travel as far? No thank you. The jump mechanic does need a lot of love as it's just not a fun mechanic and it makes getting around very, very tedious.

 

[KuramaFox]

I personally do not like this idea. However, the idea of making a ship's design affect its maximum jump range is still a good one.

The best idea I can come up with right now for that would be this: Add some new types of Jump Drive Modules (all of them would connect to jump drive computers as they do currently).

The idea is this:

Mechanical change: The Jump Drive system now behaves differently.
1. Jump Drive is charging/cooling. This happens automatically and uses energy until it is done. Attempting to use the drive when it is still charging will toggle this automated charging on or off (useful if you don't want to waste energy when near an inhibitor).
2. Once fulled charged, it will maintain that full charge in the presence of any inhibitor system weaker than it. Stronger inhibitors will cause it to drain.
3. You must bring your ship to a complete stop to use the charged Jump Drive, otherwise it will not work and tell you to stop the ship. You can still be turning or rotating, as long as your ship speed is zero.
4. Upon use, your ship stops rotating and begins moving forward at a slow speed. This continues for a set amount of time based on the ship's design, after which you jump. During this time you cannot use weapons, other systems, or otherwise control the ship outside of hitting a key to cancel the jump (which will still result in your Jump Drive needing to recharge as if you had jumped). In short, the Jump itself is no longer instant. The time it takes to jump from activation is "Spool Time."
5. Upon successfully jumping, it behaves as it currently does, and you jump to the location you wanted.



Parts:

Computer: is the computer part.

Jump Power Module: Increases the "power" of the jump drive, and how fast it charges up (decreases charging time).

Jump Stability Module: Increases how far you can travel with each jump, but also increases the total charge required for each jump and the complexity of the calculations needed to jump (increases charging time and spooling time).
Edit: Unlike Spooling and Charging parts, the Stability Module's effect is not influenced by ship size. It would have a shallow diminishing returns curve, but no real hard cap.

Jump Spooling Module: Decreases the time it takes for you to Jump once you tell it to do so (decreases spooling time).

Effect modules: could potentially allow some effect modules to be attached to the computer for further customization:
-Overdrive Effect: Increases charging power, and decreases spooling time. However, power cost is increased as well. Additionally, you jump in a completely random direction.
-Pull Effect: Greatly increases charging and spooling time, as well as energy cost. Ships within a certain distance of your ship will now be warped along with you.
-Push Effect: Identical to Pull Effect, except that your own ship does not warp (energy costs, spooling time, etc are still calculated as if it did).
-EMP Effect: Increases spool time, but reduces the effect of Jump Inhibitors.
-Explosive Effect: Greatly decreases spooling time. However, the jump range is now randomly between 1 sector and the drive's theoretical maximum range in the direction you are facing. Additionally, the jump will now drain your shields and energy reserves to zero (as well as those of any docked entities). Oh, and in the event you DO travel the maximum theoretical range, the jump drive explodes violently.
.

 

[lupoCani]

I disagree. Maneuvering speed is not the same as travel speed. I would even argue that keeping it this way is one of the primary reasons for having jump drives in the game in the first place, buffing the drives of more maneuverable ships is just counter-productive.

 

[Scypio]

So a maximum jump distance that varies based upon a specific ship's max speed? I like that idea.

That's it. :p

Large ship are curently using chain jump drive and the 32 sec cap charging (is it 32 or less ? I don't remember exactly how much it is for the minimal charging). So a cupple more jump won't be a problem to get there. Don't you think ?
Ship using fast charging jump drives are designed to travel so using the max cap on thrusters won't be a problem for this design of ship. So what's gonna be affected by that ? All ship relying on the minimal charging cap to travel and nothing more. I would say battle ship but they kinda need some thrusters to be effective otherwise they're gonna be outplayed easily by their opponents.
So in fact it doesn't penalize that much every ships. Just promoting small and fast ship to travel, adding the possibility to use docked things on your ship to help him traveling faster then leave it behind to get rid of it and use the power for fighting. Just a simple way to help fast ship against larger ones even with jump drives.

Well, if the idea isn't that much good i won't take it personally. :p
Just throwing in a simple idea i got, if nobody likes it then it's fine. Not everyone can get a good one.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

That's it. :p

Large ship are curently using chain jump drive

Chain jump drive should be considered a separate issue. They are not an intentional feature and will probably be removed at some point as they take advantage of the fact that single module jump drives charge faster than large groups, thereby removing the intention of the devs for charge time to be dependent on jump block count.

 

[Micro753]

I like your idea, but I think it would be better if it was based on a ratio of ship mass to jump drive modules. Also, times to charge should be the same no matter what. This way, chain drives will only let you jump a short distance each time, but one drive with more modules will let you go much further, discouraging chain drives. It would also make more sense to me, since the role of jumping goes to jump drives, not thrusters.

Some examples for my system:

-A large carrier would likely have more jump drives and less weapons, so it can jump farther per jump than a similar sized battleship. This would make the carrier faster, since jump drive charge times would be the same.

-A battleship would have to decide if it wants to jump farther or have more weapons. If it chooses more jump drive modules, it will have a bigger disadvantage in battles. If it chooses more weapons, it will take it longer to respond to an attack at an allied station, since it will take longer to get there, giving the enemy more time without its support.

-A smaller ship specifically designed for transportation only would have no problem jumping good distances, since it doesn't have a lot of extra mass from weapons. An example would be a Traders' Guild Freighter.

-A fighter could easily get a good jump distance since it is smaller, so a good ratio is easier to get. However, it will be bigger than a fighter of the same capabilities, making it slower or just a bigger target. Maybe it would decide it isn't worth it and instead just hope the carrier doesn't get destroyed. An example would be a star wars TIE Advanced. It is about as good as a regular TIE, but is was made bigger to fit a hyper drive and a tiny bit of shields. It is almost twice as big as a TIE Fighter, but isn't significantly better in battles.

 

[Heillos]

Chain jump drive should be considered a separate issue. They are not an intentional feature and will probably be removed at some point as they take advantage of the fact that single module jump drives charge faster than large groups, thereby removing the intention of the devs for charge time to be dependent on jump block count.

Your first statement, that chain drives are not relevant to the discussion because they are odds-on for being removed during an FTL rework, is correct.

However, you misunderstand the function of chain drives and why they are an issue. A 1-block jump drive on a ship of any great mass charges in 46 seconds. Any larger drive will charge more quickly; contrary to what you state. The trick is in the fact that multiple drives can be charged at once by logic, leading to continuous jumping when (TimeToFireAllDrives > TimeToChargeAllDrives).

As to the developer's intent, the fact remains that Schema, or Lancake, designed the equation that means 46 seconds is the absolute maximum charge time. They did not foresee this abuse of it, but the function of the equations is not unintentional, and besides certain minor edge-cases at very high mass and particular module counts, adding more modules to a jump drive always decreases charge time.

This way, chain drives will only let you jump a short distance each time, but one drive with more modules will let you go much further, discouraging chain drives.

Also false; changing jump distance will not alter the relevance of chain drives. They're powerful in that they offer continuous jumping, and making charge time constant will only cement this ability. Perhaps people will decide to chaindrive slightly larger jump drives, instead of 1-block setups, but they will do it all the same.

As to the topic of the thread, I dislike the idea of tying together two inherently separate means of movement (thrust and jumping) like this. I'm glad that OP is willing to acknowledge that the idea is not favourable.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

Your first statement, that chain drives are not relevant to the discussion because they are odds-on for being removed during an FTL rework, is correct.

However, you misunderstand the function of chain drives and why they are an issue. A 1-block jump drive on a ship of any great mass charges in 46 seconds. Any larger drive will charge more quickly; contrary to what you state. The trick is in the fact that multiple drives can be charged at once by logic, leading to continuous jumping when (TimeToFireAllDrives > TimeToChargeAllDrives).

As to the developer's intent, the fact remains that Schema, or Lancake, designed the equation that means 46 seconds is the absolute maximum charge time. They did not foresee this abuse of it, but the function of the equations is not unintentional, and besides certain minor edge-cases at very high mass and particular module counts, adding more modules to a jump drive always decreases charge time.

My point is that a 100-block chain drive can have a net recharge rate (over multiple jumps) much faster than a jump drive with tens of thousands of jump blocks, thereby removing the penalty that putting a standard jump system would normally incur on a ship's performance.

IMHO charging jump drives with logic should remain possible, but it should not ever offer an advantage (in charging time) over a regular jump drive with the same number of blocks.

 

[Micro753]

[...] you misunderstand the function of chain drives and why they are an issue. A 1-block jump drive on a ship of any great mass charges in 46 seconds. Any larger drive will charge more quickly; contrary to what you state. The trick is in the fact that multiple drives can be charged at once by logic, leading to continuous jumping when (TimeToFireAllDrives > TimeToChargeAllDrives).

[...]

Ah, OK. I've never looked into them because I've never planed to use them. Thanks for the clarification.

[...] Also false; changing jump distance will not alter the relevance of chain drives. They're powerful in that they offer continuous jumping, and making charge time constant will only cement this ability. Perhaps people will decide to chaindrive slightly larger jump drives, instead of 1-block setups, but they will do it all the same.

[...]

If they are change to depend on mass, then single jump drives on a big ship would hardly move you any distance. However, I do have to agree it will probably just encourage larger chains. I didn't think about that. However, having larger chains would put the ship at a disadvantage because it would take considerably more space than it does now. I am not against jump chains entirely, but with my system, it would at least make one consider if it is worth using that much space to travel continuously. If it is only a shuttle or transport ship, then why not? It likely wouldn't need that space for weapons. If it is a battle ship, then using jump chains could be a major disadvantage. Just my opinion, though.