Is this really working as intended?

[Dvaren]

I've been working on point defense turrets now for nearly a week. With the exception of multi-AI turrets, which work wonderfully until they dismally fail as they revert to ships, nothing seems to be even nearly effective. Even in large numbers, stopping a small swarm of missiles is nearly futile.

The turrets in this video are cannon/cannon setups with a single cannon/missile for some shotgun effect backup. They have free movement in all directions, seem to track at least most of the time, yet seem hesitant to fire at what their tracking and refuse to continue firing even on the rare occasion they do fire. There are 28 of these units along with 1 very small unit that has cannon/cannon, cannon/missile, and beam/missile.

Check the video if you've a moment:


Thanks!

 

[Mork2]

With multi bobby AIs in one turret you have to set then up carefully.

1. One AI should be set to turret all the others should be fixed docked AIs onto that turret and they should be set to ship. Otherwise they fight for control over which way to move. The idea is that the turret AI controls the rotation, the other ship AIs are all docked to the rotating turret AI and happen to look for targets where that turret AI is pointing the turret.

2. The fixed bobby AIs wait until the controlling turret AI rotates the turret around until there are missiles in front of it. Then after a little while they will detect missiles in front then fire so there is a delay. At short range against targets traversing around like that the extra AIs will never engage as nothing will be in there small target area long enough for them to detect it. As the lag gets worse more of the bobby AIs never have a chance to notice missiles directly in front of the main AI. They only fire in a very small arc like a couple of degrees at best. Between both of these issues I've gone back to single bobby AI turrets unless your using just a couple AMS turrets on a small ship.

3. What range are you firing at and what is the sector and speed ratings of the server? Missiles fired from really close range will get there before the turrets can even rotate to engage. That minimum range is effected by the server settings. I'm not really to worried about them not working at short range cause your missiles will work back at the other ship at that range.

With a server speed set to 75m/s and sector to 3km I have fired 90 swarmer missiles at 1000m at one of my newer single AI turrets and not have a single missile get through from a range of 1km repeatedly. The new turrets I'm using are all single AIs the roughly the same setup cannon/cannon, cannon/missile shotgun for extra fire in that direction and a missile/beam to rotate to engage when the missile is still out of cannon range. I've been experimenting with a true unfocused fire multi barrel design to get more nearby shots to where the turret AI is aiming at and it seems to work. It requires a missile detector to tell activated logic to fire the extra weapons. If the turret can't actually face the missile it will fire weapons in the direction its stuck. There is a delay for the extra weapons as the detector has to detect the missiles first. But it will force the turrets to fire but also needs to be reset after the fight unless the turret reset in both axis on after combat then the detector will still stay on and the turrets will continue to fire the logic driven weapons.

 

[Dvaren]

With multi bobby AIs in one turret you have to set then up carefully.

1. One AI should be set to turret all the others should be fixed docked AIs onto that turret and they should be set to ship.

I've tried this but the AI refuses to fire cannons when setup like this....sigh. lol

3. What range are you firing at and what is the sector and speed ratings of the server?

Test bed is firing from about 800-1000 meters, sector size on the server is 12k and speed limit is 150.

 

[Mork2]

It refusing to fire is the reason why I've shifted back to single bobby AIs, sometimes it does but sometimes it doesn't. As far as I can tell it seems to be lag related but I'm not sure.

Have you tried single AI bobby AMS turrets, If it still doesn't work link a sment of the turret design and people can check it and do some missile defence testing.

 

[Dvaren]

It refusing to fire is the reason why I've shifted back to single bobby AIs, sometimes it does but sometimes it doesn't. As far as I can tell it seems to be lag related but I'm not sure.

Have you tried single AI bobby AMS turrets, If it still doesn't work link a sment of the turret design and people can check it and do some missile defence testing.

I just built a few real quick with multi AI firing beam/missile, set to ship, and rail docked. They refuse to fire anything at all.

The video above shows all single AI turrets with cannon/cannon + cannon/shotgun. They all track 360 degrees and they all are able to fire as they do so once in awhile, lol. They are as simple as can be with a core, Bobby, docker, and a few weapons computers. All are set to turret, active, missiles. All fire whenever they feel like it and prefer watching the missiles as if they were they next episode of the Walking Dead.....

EDIT: After some further testing from 2000 meters firing straight into the path/face of the AIs PD turrets: They will fire....all weapons at the pace of the slowest one. So a single cannon/missile with multiple cannon/cannons are all firing at the rate of the cannon/missile.

 

[Mork2]

Gotta ask just encase. Are those turrets docked to a station that has a warp gate from the video? And if so do you have enough power to fire all the turrets and run the gate at the same time?

 

[Dvaren]

Gotta ask just encase. Are those turrets docked to a station that has a warp gate from the video? And if so do you have enough power to fire all the turrets and run the gate at the same time?

Aye...the station generates about 4.5 million per second with nearly 200 million in reserve. The gate is the only thing on the station (it is really just a gate, heh).

Those turrets are only single module master/single module slaves (a few arrays of singles apiece). They could fire forever on a single row of 20 power, lol =)

 

[Mork2]

Starting to run out of things it could be. Is it possible for you to sment the entire station and link it here for testing?

 

[Dvaren]

Starting to run out of things it could be. Is it possible for you to sment the entire station and link it here for testing?

I know...it's frustrating, lol. I've been testing this (and some other theories!) for days now, and the novelty is beginning to wear thin, lol. Setting the test firing platform back another 1000 meters helped a good bit in permitting me to witness what those turrets were actually doing. I had already noticed that they seemed to track rather well and did not appear to be fighting collisions. I had also noticed them firing, yet not at a rate that proved effective or within specs of their weapons computers.

Moving the platform back provided the missiles with a much longer travel time and a straighter path to the turrets. Sure enough, the moment it fires the turrets all take notice and adjust their trajectory....and they DO fire (those who have a clear line of sight). The problem is how OFTEN they fire. Within each turret there is exactly exactly 25 sets of cannon/cannon, each with it's own computers and 25 sets of cannon/missile, each with it's own computers. I was trying to bypass the focus fire issue, if you are wondering, lol (I failed). The cannon/cannons should theoretically fire non-stop every .1 second as long as the missile is in range and within line of sight. The cannon/missile should fire every 2 seconds providing the same conditions.

What seems to be happening is that the cannon/cannons and the cannon/missiles fire initially....the cannon/cannons keep firing for another 0.5 to 1 second.....then they both delay about 4 seconds...then rinse and repeat. Definitely a bug here of some sort.

 

[Mork2]

Okay can save you a bit of time here. To many computers controlled by one AI creates lag like having an AI for every computer... Mass numbers of both are bad for lag. To much lag and by the time the turret rotates to aim the missile is slightly to the side and it needs to reaim before it can fire etc.... At most I try to stay in hotbar limits so up to 10 sets of computers for per AI. But there is no point for multiple computers for each weapon except to reduce energy usage. From what I've been seeing (I'm not completely sure) every single cannon even through controlled by a different computer will all focus fire on the same target block/point designated by the single bobby AI controlling all of them. That's why you use separate bobby AIs for different aim points. Use turrets with single AI and one cannon/cannon computer set and one cannon/missile set and see what happens.

 

[Dvaren]

Okay can save you a bit of time here. To many computers controlled by one AI creates lag like having an AI for every computer... Mass numbers of both are bad for lag. To much lag and by the time the turret rotates to aim the missile is slightly to the side and it needs to reaim before it can fire etc.... At most I try to stay in hotbar limits so up to 10 sets of computers for per AI. But there is no point for multiple computers for each weapon except to reduce energy usage. From what I've been seeing (I'm not completely sure) every single cannon even through controlled by a different computer will all focus fire on the same target block/point designated by the single bobby AI controlling all of them. That's why you use separate bobby AIs for different aim points. Use turrets with single AI and one cannon/cannon computer set and one cannon/missile set and see what happens.

Aye...that was the " (I failed) " reference in the last post, lol...they sure did focus fire all those comps! Pointless endeavour, but was worth a shot at the time. I do have that single turret that's single AI with only three comps. It failed exactly the same way, but perhaps the other turrets are the cause. Seeing as they aren't doing much anyway, I'll suck them back up and start with a single test unit.