Improved Universe

    TheOmega

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    I agree with the resource, and the distance was up for debate. The concentric rings was my idea, i just don't think you understood it. But with the resource, maybe have different star types? Like some stars would be HUGE, like the size of current sectors, and they had more metals. and a bright star would have more crystals or something.
     

    NeonSturm

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    There would still need to be a sector system of some kind, otherwise finding anything would be impossible.
    If orbits would be square and no stationary object is allowed to touch the sector boundary, they could just move like
    v < <
    v X ^
    > > ^

    But what would happen to navigation - if you fly through a system while a orbit has a rotation step?

    Of-course we could have angular coordinates like 1..8, 1..16, 1..24 for the different orbits...
    But who would remember orbit 1, sector 1 next to orbit 2 sector 2 while orbit 1 sector 6 next to orbit 2 sector 13?


    Of-course if you know an object position AT GIVEN TIME and it's orbiting velocity/formula, you can calculate it's position at any time like we do IRL but the GUI need to be designed!

    Also, I think that planets should be closer in than 10km to the sun, and the sun's damage radius should go wayyyyyyy down. And each system should have a primary resource, which is a one of the normal resources that happens to show up about 5x more than the other resources.
    I think there should be more void sectors between systems than orbit sectors between the sun sectors and the first void sectors.
    Also there should be at least 1 sector between different orbits.
    Each orbit should be allowed for 2-4 planets, if we wanna keep system size small.

    A 32 sector cube could contain 2 system-disks = 2x 32x32x16 or 2x 32x16x32 or 2x 16x32x32, allowing for more orientations and a more interesting universe.

    But I'd like to see what is planed and may be even better before throwing in more ideas in different/new suggestion threads :)
     
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    Having things be on orbits would also have the nasty result of breaking station based FTL.
     
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    Stop thinking so rectangularly. Omega and I are talking about have cylindrical coordinates for system sectors. Inside the sector, the coordinates are still rectangular. (It looks like the current sectors from inside a sector)
    Returning to a base would be simple since you wind up inside the sector and get carried along in the orbit. I need to go draw up a picture to show you guys.
     
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    Picture time:
    So this is what the sectors look like from outside the system.

    And after a while, they start to look like this:

    However, since the sectors are actually rectanlges connected to each other funny, you don't have to worry about angles, just offsets when going from one orbit to another. When keeping in the same orbit, there is nothing different from the current sectors.

    Note: the reason I'm using 4 sectors in the center is because it should make fudging the center of system a bit easier.
     
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    You would still be able to warp to a station in orbit of a star, because the station isn't moving in the sector, in much the same you can gate into a station in a rotating planetary sector. If you enter the sector via FTL, then you don't suddenly start moving. Now, if you have a station in a different orbit from the planet you're trying to get to, then you will have to wait for the angles to match up.
     
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    Sector based movement wouldn't be a good idea in my opinion. Didn't SM used to have this and it made moving from sector to give annoying reorientation? I can't tell you how many times I used to be so close to a planet, only to get reoriented AWAY from the planet.

    What about planets being free entities of their own and having a pathfinding AI that simulates orbital movement? That way, sectors stay static, planets revolve around stars, and navigation is only tougher for the planets themselves, which is pretty cool in a way. Having sectors rotate is just messy, because the whole point of sectors or cardinals is that they're static and can be used for navigation. With planets moving as AI, you could control the speed of orbit (even based off of planet mass) by referencing the planet size in a variable and doing calculations, or randomly, and even having varying orbit shapes like how Pluto for instance actually travels on an elliptical orbit.

    How this would actually perform in game though is what I'd be worried about. Planets seemed to get less and less laggy every update, so I'm sure that there might be wiggle room on the performance level. There would also need to be a way to keep titans from literally knocking them out of their "orbits", which I would have no clue abut what would need to be done.
     
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    TheOmega

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    I think it would be easier to get rid of the sector system entire.y if this was implemented. Only after a certain point can fixing it become more of a hassle than redesigning it, and this is that point. one solar system would be in its own sector, with all planets in orbit. The FTL warps would be taken to the gate liked to it. Simple. Not some coordinate, the gate.
     
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    Sector based movement wouldn't be a good idea in my opinion. Didn't SM used to have this and it made moving from sector to give annoying reorientation? I can't tell you how many times I used to be so close to a planet, only to get reoriented AWAY from the planet.

    What about planets being free entities of their own and having a pathfinding AI that simulates orbital movement? That way, sectors stay static, planets revolve around stars, and navigation is only tougher for the planets themselves, which is pretty cool in a way. Having sectors rotate is just messy, because the whole point of sectors or cardinals is that they're static and can be used for navigation. With planets moving as AI, you could control the speed of orbit (even based off of planet mass) by referencing the planet size in a variable and doing calculations, or randomly, and even having varying orbit shapes like how Pluto for instance actually travels on an elliptical orbit.

    How this would actually perform in game though is what I'd be worried about. Planets seemed to get less and less laggy every update, so I'm sure that there might be wiggle room on the performance level. There would also need to be a way to keep titans from literally knocking them out of their "orbits", which I would have no clue abut what would need to be done.
    Your orientation will never need to change. Inside the same orbit, it's exactly the same. Going between orbits will result in some offset in position being necessary, but no orientation changes are needed, because ithe sectors are all square internally. Imagine a brick wall, and each brick is a sector. You can't just copy your position when you go up to the next row, but you don't need to change orientation.

    As for "sectors are static" well, I'm just using "sector" to describe the enclosed reference systems that Starmade already has. The fact that these reference planes no longer have static relations to each other is no big deal. Currently, planet sectors rotate. Having translation differences is less of a hassle.

    As for planets moving inside sectors, that would be a nightmare. My system has the advantage that planets are moving at zero velocity. No needing to accelerate to catch up with them. If you've every tried docking on a moving ship, that's hard. Now imagine every single base is like that. No way. Also, no need to worry about a titan knocking a planet out of orbit, since the planets are static entities, and don't move.

    Also, having a "sector" that moves with the planet or orbiting station means using jump drives to get there is super easy. You don't need to calculate where the planet is, you already know where it is, because its sector stays the same.

    I think it would be easier to get rid of the sector system entire.y if this was implemented. Only after a certain point can fixing it become more of a hassle than redesigning it, and this is that point. one solar system would be in its own sector, with all planets in orbit. The FTL warps would be taken to the gate liked to it. Simple. Not some coordinate, the gate.
    The problem is then a sever has to load EVERYTHING in a system, and the systems next to it. Good luck with that. The sectors not only act as reference frames, they also allow the server to decide what to load or not, in a very simple way. Is it in a loaded sector? If so, load it.
     
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    I think it would be easier to get rid of the sector system entire.y if this was implemented. Only after a certain point can fixing it become more of a hassle than redesigning it, and this is that point. one solar system would be in its own sector, with all planets in orbit. The FTL warps would be taken to the gate liked to it. Simple. Not some coordinate, the gate.
    Do you even know why we have sectors? They prevent the game from overloading with planets. There is no sane reason why we would get rid of the sectors, so please stop asking to remove them (this is already your second or third time).
     

    TheOmega

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    Not remove. Change. Also, the segment load distance is what loads far away objects, and I agree with the fact that sectors are a reference plane. I was just throwing ideas out there, no need to sound so angry. I have been around this game a long time, although with some breaks, and I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about, at least somewhat. On a side note, ltmauve's idea was pretty neat, and illustrated the basic idea I had.
     
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    Three times and counting...
    The station is not moving inside a sector. The sector moves, but it can be identified through the same coordinates every time. (system x,system y,system z,orbit,position)
    Since the gates basically work on /change_sector, as long as the server knows what sector the station is in, it can get you there and it will still work
     
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    It would feel unnatural though. I agree we need something like this, but surely there could be a solution to not make it feel strange? Because the way the sector names currently work is very logical, and you're suggesting that it gets made very hard to know what sector you're going into.
     
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    Well, if I am in 0 0 -1 and I go to 0 0 0, I expect to go to the sector that's right there. With the "moving" sectors, there's no way to say which sector is going to be next to that void sector. Breaking it up a bit more also means systems become more relevant in the mind of the player. Right now, systems are irrelevant to players except as "places with suns that eat your ship". With the new faction mechanics, systems are majorly important, so having the system in the coordinates instead of derived from the coordinates is useful.

    (Actually, it would be system x, system y, system z, orbit shell, orbit level, angular position, because 3d.)
     
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    Why is it a good thing to not know where you're going to end up? That doesn't make any sense.
     
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    It's not a benefit. It is a consequence of the nature of the system I have proposed. In addition, you can still tell where you are going to end up next, because of the sector markers. You can set a waypoint in a void sector if you want to keep going straight through a system (and given that you are trying to get through a system, you are probably already headed somewhere.)
     

    Snk

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    I remember when we actually had orbits.

    It sucked. Everytime your ship passed through a sector you teleported away.