Read by Council (Idea) Jump Catapult

    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages
    76
    Reaction score
    9
    My idea for a jump catapult would be similar to Eve acceleration gates, in function and physical design.

    The Catapult would consist of a Catapult Latch, Rails, a Catapult Computer, a Catapult Sling, and a Mass Accelerator.

    The design: A Latch is placed first. Rails are placed down in the direction of the Latch, with a Mass Accelerator placed underneath each rail. At the end of the rails is the Catapult Sling. For each Mass Accelerator, the maximum range of the catapult increases by 1 sector, however every accelerator also has a negative impact on the mass of the attached ship. The more accelerators, the more the mass of a ship counts and more enhancers are needed.

    The idea: The player docks his ship onto the Latch, anchoring it in place. Once docked, the player opens his navigation menu and selects a new menu option - Catapult Destination. Once selected, either manually via coordinates or through the 3D galaxy map, the player exits the menu and begins moving his ship down the rails. Once the ship reaches the Sling, the jump is initiated and the destination is reached.

    Limitations: Being as the catapult functions off Mass, the path to a destination cannot directly intersect a planet or a star (stations are fine). The reason being that the gravity would (theoretically) alter the course of the ship

    starmade-screenshot-0019.png
    On left, represented by a Shield Generator, is the Sling. The grey blocks are rails, whilst the red lights are Accelerators. The Latch and Computer are located far right.

    Pros and Cons:

    Pros: Easily programmable destinations, doesn't require the use of an other-end connection. Maximum range can be determined by how big of a catapult is constructed. Larger ships will also be unable to use catapults meant for smaller craft (i.e. a fighter / small ship-only catapult, rather than a catapult built specifically for a capital or titan ship. The range can exceed that of Warp Gates, if built large enough.

    Cons: Larger ships will require that the catapult have more Mass Enhancers to move. If the wrong location is accidently designated the player may find themselves incredibly far away from their territory. Only one ship can be catapulted at once. Planets and Stars cannot be plotted through (or, if they are, the ship may be pulled out of the catapult in the close proximity of a star or planet (leaving them stranded).

    Lemme know what y'all think!
     

    Lone_Puppy

    Me, myself and I.
    Joined
    Mar 12, 2015
    Messages
    1,274
    Reaction score
    529
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    Warp Gates exist. This idea sounds very similar.
    [DOUBLEPOST=1445550252,1445550104][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh and Warp Drive Computer+Modules. These allow you to warp anywhere for up the 8 sectors I think, before having to recharge. But people have devised logic to auto recharge these in their ships.
     
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages
    76
    Reaction score
    9
    Warp Gates exist. This idea sounds very similar.
    [DOUBLEPOST=1445550252,1445550104][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh and Warp Drive Computer+Modules. These allow you to warp anywhere for up the 8 sectors I think, before having to recharge. But people have devised logic to auto recharge these in their ships.

    This idea is as an alternative to warp gates, which currently require you set up connections at both ends and are limited to 128 sector distances.
    The Catapult is a one-way trip and can exceed that distance (however at great cost to building requirements).
    Warpgates are two-way and location-fixed, whereas this is one-way and can be taken anywhere


    As for jumping, it's incredibly short-ranged (8 sectors, or approximately 15km) when put in comparison of how far you might need to go in order to find an empty bit of space void of players or other structures.
     

    Lone_Puppy

    Me, myself and I.
    Joined
    Mar 12, 2015
    Messages
    1,274
    Reaction score
    529
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    True, I have been on servers that have nothing until you're dozens of sectors out.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: timtee
    Joined
    Apr 9, 2015
    Messages
    65
    Reaction score
    7
    • Purchased!
    Love this idea, but I'd suggest that the blocks should be made from lots of something rare like rammet/sertise etc to make building one more expensive than warp gates, the ability for servers to set a maximum distance hardcap, and it should only be able to launch ships in the direction it is facing.
    I'd also suggest a slightly more complex build design be required for it to work, maybe somewhat similar to shipyards so as to make it more expensive and intricate to build, but this is less of a balance suggestion and more me just wanting things to require a bit of work to achieve ingame.
     
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages
    76
    Reaction score
    9
    Love this idea, but I'd suggest that the blocks should be made from lots of something rare like rammet/sertise etc to make building one more expensive than warp gates, the ability for servers to set a maximum distance hardcap, and it should only be able to launch ships in the direction it is facing.
    I'd also suggest a slightly more complex build design be required for it to work, maybe somewhat similar to shipyards so as to make it more expensive and intricate to build, but this is less of a balance suggestion and more me just wanting things to require a bit of work to achieve ingame.
    I'd thought about it before I came up with the "set it anywhere you want" option.



    How about a compromise...

    A turret with the catapult. Difference being, when you set the coordinates after docking, it rotates you around (slowly) to face the direction.
     
    Joined
    Jun 10, 2015
    Messages
    333
    Reaction score
    98
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 4
    This sounds like a Launch Rail on steroids :eek:. Personally, I'd rather have the launch rail so my fighters can deploy further and faster (push beams are problematic at best) from the hangar bays on my carrier.

    Not objecting to the idea, I just don't see a reason for it other than an alternative to warp gates.
     
    Joined
    May 6, 2015
    Messages
    24
    Reaction score
    3
    I like the basis of this idea, though I think different build, avoiding rails for it. I'd suggest building it like a series of gates, so a combination, in design, of shipyard and warp gate, and the range would extend based on number of rings, where as the possible mass would be increased pr. block.
    also a name suggestion: warp accelerator
     
    • Like
    Reactions: MacThule
    Joined
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages
    78
    Reaction score
    10
    I do like the idea, never played EVE (lack of decent internet being one issue) but i prefer the mass effect approach myself,
    (but it does need to be more inline with starmade), so MOVING the "target" takes an hour...
    this makes the system far more usable in starmade, by setting the destination the game could create a "phantom" sector
    to have the player travel (creating the effect of not teleporting)
    the destination of course has to be in range, and unobstructed. (same as your take)
    the advantage to this is it's got a higher range then "jump drive", with no need for a fixed endpoint, as in, this is a weapon, for jumping fleets in.
    the disadavnatages are time delays, (travelling the distance, AND charge up time) and the minimum distance (jump drive +15%)
    this makes it a LONG range weapon. it also allows a adversary to build a defence on route to screw your attack up.


    another difference between your version and my spin, is that instead of rails, sector proximity would be used. as in, you can't construct this in a sector (is that right? I mean at co-ords) shared by a NEUTRAL space station or NPC shop.


    once activated, the unit charges up (it takes like thirty minutes to do this), a player merely activates the catapult, and the whole sector (ships and crews) are thrown into super-speed...


    not really, the game merely BS's the speedo, and places the players on a stictched together imitation of the spanning sectors to their destination)

    in-game, it plots the course of the fleet, and when a player would "see" them, it simply shows a low quality copy of the launch sector and a big
    long streak of color (PLEASE be set by light like weapons)
    IF a collision happens along the path, the WHOLE "bubble" begins collapsing... the colliding ship drops on collision, the rest randomly drop out from that point on... this allows players to "collide" with a bubble and make the fleet drop out early AND late from super-speed... scattering a attack... (also, when collision damage works right... that will be SO awesome)
    although possible to break a bubble with weapon fire, a bubble should get STRONGER as it nears it's destination, at about 75% of it's
    journey, it should be practically unbreakable except for collision.

    since the bubble is an entity... it gets detected by RADAR...

    this should NOT be cheap, requiring LARGE amounts of resources, possibly even some sort of fuel source to "burn" as well.

    that said, they should travel VERY fast in game.
    any ship should also be set to MAX universe speed on exit.


    by using modules in the build (connect to catapult core) it gains an additional "ability

    Pull - the bubble ruptures with a pull force, equal to the amount of modules vs catapult modules
    Push - the bubble ruptures with a PUSH force... this can be used to send an invading fleet of WARHEADS!
    STOP - because STOP.
    EMP - SETS power to 0 on everything present, also sets E/sec to 0%, then works upto 100% over bubble duration
    ION - damages shields (e.g, you could construct one with TONS of ion, and it'll reduce shields right back to 25% capacity, and recharge)
    EXP - good old explosive, makes ALL friendly shots explosive for the next five minutes (regardless of weapon setups)
    OD - overdrive, makes ALL friendly ships react as if they have 2X the thrusters...
    CLOAK - IF catapult has sufficient power, it'll CLOAK FREINDLY entities. (BUT NOT the bubble)
    Jam - if catapult has sufficient power, it'll radar jam friendly vessels (but not the bubble)
    Scan - runs scan as if you are at those co-ordinatates.

    THESE effects ONLY happen if the bubble reaches it's destination intact. DAMAGE reduces the effect.


    A bubble without an effect is harmless, if equipped with PULL, it'll act like a blackhole, anything sucked BACK into it is destroyed...
    this allows a faction to actively attack a well defended station with minimal outlay... since the blackhole destroys on contact (except friendlies EXITING it)
    ION effect damages shields, and hull (the stronger it is, the more damage it does, INCLUDING destruction)
    EMP damages systems... RAPIDLY.
    OD damages the power system
    and EXP is like sun exposure on contact


    AI *WILL* attack the bubble in range, so if a faction attacks, it's possible to deny the weapon by building a station along the route,
    or placing a GOOD ship in it's path.
     
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages
    76
    Reaction score
    9
    This sounds like a Launch Rail on steroids :eek:. Personally, I'd rather have the launch rail so my fighters can deploy further and faster (push beams are problematic at best) from the hangar bays on my carrier.

    Not objecting to the idea, I just don't see a reason for it other than an alternative to warp gates.
    For me, and maybe other players, multiple 'pults in a single sector could be set up to allow a player faction to move their fleet somewhere and attack another faction (provided they make multiple catapults) each equipped to handle their respective ships. Also, for those that don't mind a trip back, they can 'pult themselves further out in order to gather resources then jump it all the way back (or establish another catapult on the other end).


    I like the basis of this idea, though I think different build, avoiding rails for it. I'd suggest building it like a series of gates, so a combination, in design, of shipyard and warp gate, and the range would extend based on number of rings, whereas the possible mass would be increased pr. block.
    also a name suggestion: warp accelerator
    I chose rails specifically because they're so usable, and currently not implemented in any kind of fast/distance travel. Plus, as I said in my OP, they've got definite advantages and disadvantages over conventional warp gates.

    The issue with rings is that, even if you think you've got em big enough, there's probably going to be a ship that can't use them. And then you have to add more mass enhancers on top of that.

    With my idea, physical size isn't an issue, only mass. More compatible with a wider range of ship types.

    So much stuff

    But I'd say no. That could be used to harass players to no end. Flying along, you don't realize there's an array there and boom, you're 250km away with no access to warpgates or wormholes, and your jumpdrive may or may not have a decent charge-up time.

    As for that large of a "charge' time... also no. 30 minutes? More than excessive. With my idea, you get can your ship jumping into the next area only as fast as you can reach the end of the rails (which depending on the rail's max range could be a while).

    Phantom sector.. no thanks. Game engine (afaik) can't handle ships moving at absurd speeds, but it would take extra resources and time to develop phantom sectors which would only persist so long as you're in transit.

    And then your bubble effects. I'd pass on those, too. Black hole, sector-wide power removal, etc? OP as hell. If a fleet needs support I'm sure there's a craft out there with turrets and modules meant specifically to do just that. Disable and cripple anything shot. To put something in-game that does what players do without needing a player to be there is unnecessary, namely because it makes players unnecessary.
     
    Joined
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages
    338
    Reaction score
    148
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    I like the original idea, along with the idea of putting it on a turret platform to point where it's launching you.

    The mass accelerators themselves are a good idea. Could use them to make a warhead/fighter launch system if they could be made to work without the sling and need for targeting with the computer. It could just give you a fast acceleration and perhaps the ability to undock without losing speed if a sling is not connected.

    Regardless, I like the idea of a rapid one way launch system with more range. I also like that it wouldn't have to be made in a ring configuration.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: AnthonyAnderson
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages
    76
    Reaction score
    9
    I like the original idea, along with the idea of putting it on a turret platform to point where it's launching you.

    The mass accelerators themselves are a good idea. Could use them to make a warhead/fighter launch system if they could be made to work without the sling and need for targeting with the computer. It could just give you a fast acceleration and perhaps the ability to undock without losing speed if a sling is not connected.

    Regardless, I like the idea of a rapid one way launch system with more range. I also like that it wouldn't have to be made in a ring configuration.

    I've had a few ideas about using rails to better "launch" things, but the amount of space needed vs how practical it would be is pretty much not worth the developing time.


    Thank you everyone for the support and feedback on this. With any luck a council member can see this and push it through to developers for consideration.

    Unless Bench wants to add in a little feedback :P
     
    Joined
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages
    338
    Reaction score
    148
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    Actually, if the idea was used, and without the sling it just activated as a rail launching device, it wouldn't take up much more space than using it as a short jump pad. If they ever put magnetic docking in, you could have a viable carrier with automated launching of drone fighters. Would give them the advantage of being stored deep in the mothership and being able to exit that cover at full throttle. I built a semi-replica of a video game carrier(@700m) with a revolving fighter loading system. With a launcher like that, I could deploy 45 fighters of varying capabilities in about 4 mins or so completely done with an inner ship remote from the cockpit. I could deploy many more faster than that if I put more time into it.

    I had a funny idea for your system if it would work with an AI drone though. You could build a jump pad into a ship, figure out how far it would launch, then pick a spot that distance from your target. Send in wave after wave of AI drone fighters from a couple sectors away. Soften your enemy up before you pounce. You could even lay a minefield from long range with warheads.
     
    Joined
    Jun 24, 2015
    Messages
    247
    Reaction score
    63
    I like this idea it would also make escape pods easier and more realistic
     
    Joined
    Jul 16, 2015
    Messages
    122
    Reaction score
    20
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    This Idea seems quite useless to be exsisting on the Engineer's Funbox Sever cause when you jump, You end up outside the main galaxy of the spawn sector while the system your in is far from the main system most people start in
     

    nightrune

    Wizard/Developer/Project Manager
    Joined
    May 11, 2015
    Messages
    1,324
    Reaction score
    577
    • Schine
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Thinking Positive
    Let's just create a way to make warp gates one way!
     
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages
    76
    Reaction score
    9
    Let's just create a way to make warp gates one way!
    An interesting idea, but that would negate the reason for having 2 warpgates for a network.

    With this idea added separate from warp gates, it lets the old system exist and provide a semi-alternative.
     
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages
    76
    Reaction score
    9
    Not particularly, If you wanted to go back you would still need another one.
    Perhaps, but why rework an existing system that works well when adding a new system would increase diversity in gameplay and strategy.

    timtee I did have to ask about that server you mentioned in chat, and whilst I agree it wouldn't be usable there, it definitely would be elsewhere.

    Especially imagine a mining outpost for a faction and being able to catapult mining ships out to mine and they'd just have to get their way back.
     
    Joined
    Jul 27, 2015
    Messages
    30
    Reaction score
    14
    • Purchased!
    Perhaps, but why rework an existing system that works well when adding a new system would increase diversity in gameplay and strategy.

    timtee I did have to ask about that server you mentioned in chat, and whilst I agree it wouldn't be usable there, it definitely would be elsewhere.

    Especially imagine a mining outpost for a faction and being able to catapult mining ships out to mine and they'd just have to get their way back.
    This idea in general would actually limit diversity in gameplay and strategy. Pirating would be significantly harder and Smuggling would be significantly easier with any of the "Catapult" ideas implemented. The only way to resolve that would be another type of "Jump Inhibitor" which (to me) would be unnecessarily redundant.

    I would love some launch rails though!