I have idea how to solve Build Block ecenomy issue!

[BDLS]

Actually 1 bit, not whole byte (1 bit is 1/8 of byte). You need boolean value to contain information if block is generated naturally or placed by player.

Oh, I was thinking that as a character (even a boolean, 0 or 1) it would require a byte to save.

So unlike a character in Notepad, when a character is saved (taking 1 byte)...as a block in Starmade, it only takes 1 bit?

 

[NeonSturm]

Example:

0000 0001 = de-activated, not _x_, 1 hp
1000 0000 = activated, not _x_, 0 hp
0010 0011 = de-activated, _x_, 1+2= 3 hp
0000 1100 = de-activated, not _x_, 4+8= 12 hp​

A0x0 8421
You can use bytes to store many values. Unicode characters use 2 bytes per letter.

 

[ltmauve]

Let's not use up a bit trying to keep track of whether a block was user placed or not. The blocks have little enough data as is.
Anyway, my main concern with the bv idea is running out halfway through removing something. Inventory slots seem to be able to hold more information than just ID and block count, perhaps they could lock any blocks you remove to the structure? (Say you remove five dirt. In the dirt slot, 5 blocks are associated with the planet. Then when you try to put them in a factory, or sell them, or place them on another structure, you're stuck with those 5 dirt at the end.)
If this was added to the BV concept, it would make it more sound with regards to replacing blocks or structures while preventing any economic results from build blocking entire planets. This way, you still need a salvager to work on a planet (most likely) but now you don't have to worry about popping in and out of the build block and salveger every few minutes to deal with your BV

 

[starhaiden]

I have a suggestion what about we can build little one block robots that mine blocks. you connect the robots to the build block then you choose what blocks the robots mine, the more robots you have the faster it is to mine multiply blocks.
you robots could have 30HP mines a block in about 1-2 seconds has battery that needs to recharged when it has 10% battery life left it goes to a charger and uses it power drain beam.
it has two weapons a mining and power draining beam. Each robot will need a block for it to sleep and repair itself

 

[NeonSturm]

sleep? :D

 

[Byamarro]

Instead of "permanently disappear" which I already hate on killed blocks (where does all this mass go?) just store then not-accessible in an object-wide invisible storage.

The blocks may spawn again in an extra terrain generation process somewhere where a player chooses (increase natural beauty of edited planets) ready to get salvaged.


I think requiring a 2x2x2 BB array is good for deleting usually non-player block-IDs.

It may also increase tis object-wide terrain storage so that you have to shove your dirt from A to B rather than just let it disappear.

I don't think it's neccesary. In my opinion it wouldn't change much. Process of terrain generation is very resource-expensive. Simplest solutions are best. Let just make them disappear. Common, most time it's dirt and wood. Sometimes hulls (if u build in pre-generated station). If You want to don't waste them, just use salvage cannons.

Oh, I was thinking that as a character (even a boolean, 0 or 1) it would require a byte to save.

So unlike a character in Notepad, when a character is saved (taking 1 byte)...as a block in Starmade, it only takes 1 bit?

Byte is 8 bits. One bit is information whichc is 1 or 0 (true or false).
This is one byte: 0000 0000
How many info do You need to remember that block is generated naturally? I think I need only ,,True".

Let's not use up a bit trying to keep track of whether a block was user placed or not. The blocks have little enough data as is.
Anyway, my main concern with the bv idea is running out halfway through removing something. Inventory slots seem to be able to hold more information than just ID and block count, perhaps they could lock any blocks you remove to the structure? (Say you remove five dirt. In the dirt slot, 5 blocks are associated with the planet. Then when you try to put them in a factory, or sell them, or place them on another structure, you're stuck with those 5 dirt at the end.)
If this was added to the BV concept, it would make it more sound with regards to replacing blocks or structures while preventing any economic results from build blocking entire planets. This way, you still need a salvager to work on a planet (most likely) but now you don't have to worry about popping in and out of the build block and salveger every few minutes to deal with your BV

C'mon. 1 bit is really not that much!

I have a suggestion what about we can build little one block robots that mine blocks. you connect the robots to the build block then you choose what blocks the robots mine, the more robots you have the faster it is to mine multiply blocks.
you robots could have 30HP mines a block in about 1-2 seconds has battery that needs to recharged when it has 10% battery life left it goes to a charger and uses it power drain beam.
it has two weapons a mining and power draining beam. Each robot will need a block for it to sleep and repair itself

It would be just next salvage cannon-like tool.

 

[starhaiden]

but it will be automatic all you have to do is select the area you want to mine but it will be slower then a massive mining ship

 

[ltmauve]

C'mon. 1 bit is really not that much!.

Well, given that we only have 24 bits to work with, 1 bit really is a lot. Especially given how they are all already occupied, so that bit has to come at the expense of something. Also, what do you think of my addition to your idea? It should eliminate the need to constantly hop in and out of a build block in order to remove something without creating economic leakage. And adding a few bits occasionally to the player file size is better than adding 1 bit for every block in a structure. With larger ships, that's going to be a much larger file size.

 

[Byamarro]

Well, given that we only have 24 bits to work with, 1 bit really is a lot. Especially given how they are all already occupied, so that bit has to come at the expense of something. Also, what do you think of my addition to your idea? It should eliminate the need to constantly hop in and out of a build block in order to remove something without creating economic leakage. And adding a few bits occasionally to the player file size is better than adding 1 bit for every block in a structure. With larger ships, that's going to be a much larger file size.

I think that Your idea can be a little bit confussing for players until these blocks will be somehow highlighted as ,,salvaged in build mode" or something like that. I have to point another thing too... If You don't want to store data that contains information about if block is generated naturally. Then frustrating events may happen. Let's say that You accidentally put 10x10x10 of shields on planet instead of hulls, if You don't store data that it's placed by player, then when You will salvage it back You will lost ability to use it, sell etc.

,,With larger ships, that's going to be a much larger file size."
Actually these bits don't need to be used for ships. Because ships aren't generated naturally.

 

[ltmauve]

While in a structure you have "borrowed" blocks from, there would be a yellow number at the bottom of the inventory slot indicating how many blocks you have borrowed. The total number of blocks would still be displayed at the top.
While in a structure while having borrowed blocks from another structure, the number at the top of the inventory slot would be yellow (as opposed to the usual white.) The number shown at the top would be subtract the number of blocks that cannot be placed on the current structure. Once out of blocks the number would turn grey, and show how many borrowed blocks there were.
Astronaut mode would be similar, except that it would show only the blocks that have not been borrowed from everywhere in yellow at first.

Also, my "borrowing" idea is an extension of your BV concept. If you place down 1000 shields, then the BV increases by 1000, and you can remove them. The "borrowing" is a buffer, so if I want to take blocks and put them elsewhere I can, without having to go through first and salvage off an area. Basically with this BV wouldn't interfere with upgrading stations. It would require workarounds to deal with planetary construction, but it's more workable and won't deny editing. In addition, it won't add economic leakage.

 

[Byamarro]

Hmmm not bad after some time of thinking about it...
The only negative thing for that: This is so unnaturall and illogical if You know what I mean.
But yes, your idea is more ram-economical and should work well

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

Build blocks aren't really that much of a problem, IMO.

It is quite easy to build a salvage ship that mines 10-20 times faster than a build block ever could. Build blocks are also very tedious to mine with (at least for someone like me who can't leave a single block behind)

I say let the people who can't into salvagers keep their build blocks.

 

[KillaKrazy]

Build blocks aren't really that much of a problem, IMO.

It is quite easy to build a salvage ship that mines 10-20 times faster than a build block ever could. Build blocks are also very tedious to mine with (at least for someone like me who can't leave a single block behind)

I say let the people who can't into salvagers keep their build blocks.

This, I agree with. I think this whole argument is pointless. If they were serious about wanting balanced economy they wouldn't have every damn server giving ridiculous amounts of credits or items for voting.

 

[NeonSturm]

While in a structure you have "borrowed" blocks from, there would be a yellow number at the bottom of the inventory slot indicating how many blocks you have borrowed. The total number of blocks would still be displayed at the top.
While in a structure while having borrowed blocks from another structure, the number at the top of the inventory slot would be yellow (as opposed to the usual white.) The number shown at the top would be subtract the number of blocks that cannot be placed on the current structure. Once out of blocks the number would turn grey, and show how many borrowed blocks there were.
Astronaut mode would be similar, except that it would show only the blocks that have not been borrowed from everywhere in yellow at first.

Also, my "borrowing" idea is an extension of your BV concept. If you place down 1000 shields, then the BV increases by 1000, and you can remove them. The "borrowing" is a buffer, so if I want to take blocks and put them elsewhere I can, without having to go through first and salvage off an area. Basically with this BV wouldn't interfere with upgrading stations. It would require workarounds to deal with planetary construction, but it's more workable and won't deny editing. In addition, it won't add economic leakage.

Add borrowed blocks which will permanently obstruct your inventory is generally a bad idea. Except if you want to transfer them between planets ("we need a source-tracker per stack too?" exploited :p)

Instead of "permanently disappear" which I already hate on killed blocks (where does all this mass go?) just store them not-accessible in an object-wide(=per planet/station) invisible storage.

The blocks may spawn again in an a smale-scale terrain generation process on the surface in some area/segment which the player chooses (increase natural beauty of edited planets) ready to get salvaged.


I think requiring a 2x2x2 BB array is good for deleting a 2x2x2 box of usually non-player block-IDs.

Many BBs may also increase this object-wide terrain storage so that few BBs let you have to shove your dirt from A to B rather than just let it disappear.

Edited by post to make it easier to get the point.

 

[ltmauve]

So what you'd want is that the structure stores all the borrowed blocks itself, not the player. I don't particularly care one way or the other.

 

[Byamarro]

This, I agree with. I think this whole argument is pointless. If they were serious about wanting balanced economy they wouldn't have every damn server giving ridiculous amounts of credits or items for voting.

There are serevers that disabled build blocks or made them very expensive. My point is not pointless, You just play at ,,freebuild" servers where problems like that don't exist. I like more survival things etc. Playing starmade only for build ships is boring. But sadly, Starmade now is mainly about building, nothing more.

 

[starhaiden]

so you want it to be more lick minecraft how you mine blocks one by one and mining takes forever and you only can build small things.
Starmade is bigger then minecraft and people don't want to build a 500m long ship block by blcok

 

[Byamarro]

so you want it to be more lick minecraft how you mine blocks one by one and mining takes forever and you only can build small things.
Starmade is bigger then minecraft and people don't want to build a 500m long ship block by blcok

Please don't speak for everyone. There are servers that have disabled or very overpriced buildblocks, so it's clearly that some people would want to disable build block exploit.

 

[starhaiden]

are said people I didn't say everybody doesn't want to build a ship block by block.

 

[Byamarro]

By saying ,,build ship block by block" You exaggerate my statement to overthrow it.
If I would want to build ship block by block I would ask to completly disable build mode.