Go Back to Ratings instead of Likes

[Micro753]

On the disagree button, I'd say it depends on the community. If most people would just leave a disagree rating without explaining, then it would be useless to some degree, not helping or furthering the conversation. If most would give a detailed reason for why, then it would be useful.

But even if it isn't brought back, it isn't really necessary for community members (but maybe for schine). I joined the forum after the disagree button was removed the first time, and whenever someone disagreed, the first sentence in their response post was something like "I disagree completely because ..." All it would mean is having to read the opposing posts to get an idea of how well or not the op's post was received. This would lead more of us to read the whole discussion, but for schine, who don't have that kind of time, the disagree button would make it easier to see how many like or share an opinion. Pretty much, I see positives and negatives to both options.

If it isn't brought back, an alternative would be to add a poll at the top of the post with a simple yes/no or agree/disagree.

 

[Nosajimiki]

Well, the basic Like system still fulfills the requirements for #1 while removing some of the noise that specialty groups have for #2. If there's something in the suggestion forum and its got 20 or 30 Likes, then clearly a lot of people think its a good idea, so pay attention to it. We don't REALLY need a different feedback system for Like, Agree, Creative, Friendly, etc, they're all just different ways of saying the same thing, "I approve of this".

#3 was the big one that we were suffering from before, with the toxicity, name calling, and frankly outright harassment some people were dishing out going a long way to ensure that schine DID stop reading altogether.

Friendliness and respectful attitudes have GOT to be things, or else we're just shooting ourselves in the foot, because frankly if Schine does stop listening and the game fails, its not their fault, its ours for driving them away.

"Like" works for flushing out what is popular, but not good at flushing out what is specifically problematic, and in pre-release development, finding problems is more productive than finding new ideas. If someone has an idea and 6 people like it, it might look worth considering, but if the same idea has 2 agree, 1 funny, 3 creative, and 20 disagree, that paints a very different picture. In this case, you can see that even most of the positive feedback that was there is something about that post they liked, but not necessarily the suggestion as a whole. Also, a post with 1-2 agrees and a lot of negative feedback is likely to just get ignored; so, if Schine has the same idea latter, they do not already know it is a hated idea. Reading suggestions with lots of disagrees is just as important as reading suggestions with lots of likes.

Also... while it is pretty clear that some of our goals do line up, that you strongly disagree with my solution. Wouldn't it be nice if your opinion mattered in the metadata of my OP? Based on your position, right now, at a glance this idea has 17 likes[edit: up tp 22 and counting]! People LOVE it and it is clear that this is the direction the community wants to move in. If you or any of the other people who feel like the system was an abuse disagreed with me, then your voice would be reflected, but in current system, the opposition has no voice.

 

[Edymnion]

Reading suggestions with lots of disagrees is just as important as reading suggestions with lots of likes.

Agreed. But we do have a history here of people abusing the system to try and shout people down.

Which is ultimately why I think it was removed. We tried it several times. As a whole, the system was abused by a minority of people to the point it had to be removed for everyone.

Thats generally how things go though. The majority doesn't get to have nice things because a minority abuses it, both online and in meat space.

 

[Nosajimiki]

Agreed. But we do have a history here of people abusing the system to try and shout people down.

Which is ultimately why I think it was removed. We tried it several times. As a whole, the system was abused by a minority of people to the point it had to be removed for everyone.

Thats generally how things go though. The majority doesn't get to have nice things because a minority abuses it, both online and in meat space.

Using funny instead of disagree is the only abuse I can actually think of, how would you feel if the system were reduced to Agree/Disagree, or perhaps Like/Agree/Disagree since somethings fall out of that scope.

 

[Edymnion]

Using funny instead of disagree is the only abuse I can actually think of, how would you feel if the system were reduced to Agree/Disagree, or perhaps Like/Agree/Disagree since somethings fall out of that scope.

I'd be fine with that, later.

I think right now the boards still need some "cooling off" time to reset them back to the friendlier place they once were.

Until then, I think it would be pretty obvious that a thread is... "debated" when you see it has something like 4 likes and 20 pages of comments.

 

[Non]

I think right now the boards still need some "cooling off" time to reset them back to the friendlier place they once were.

Cooling off time kind of negates the reason for having ratings. If you wait long enough, theres no one left to give an opinion.

 

[Edymnion]

If you wait long enough, theres no one left to give an opinion.

I don't see it that way, but to each their own.

 

[JinM]

Using funny instead of disagree is the only abuse I can actually think of, how would you feel if the system were reduced to Agree/Disagree, or perhaps Like/Agree/Disagree since somethings fall out of that scope.

At least you agree, that the funny rating is not needed, because 50% of the times it got pressed, it was pressed to annoy "opponents".

First of: People that don't support the majorities view on any game mechanic, shouldn't get a negative experience, just because people using ratings to express their disagreement. Any opinion and feedback is important, and shouldn't be punished for being against the mainstream view. Any disagree rating raises the "argree vs disagree rating relation sub-debate". It distracts, sidetracks the discussion to being mainstream conforn and rating oriented, and it makes it a bad experience for people that don't swimm with the mass.


Secondly: This community is competetive. Banter and conflict is a part of it. You can't have any other rating besides like, because groups do pursue and spam rate people just for their own agenda of personal grudges or to support their opinion, by giving negative responses in every way they can express themself.

Don't get me wrong: The problem isn't when people disagree with me. My problem arises when people start taking it personal, and start show their bias openly, by using every negative mean possible to react. And the uncontrolled ratings were a part of this.


There is only one exception I would accept other ratings besides "like": If the mods were able and willed to punish funny-abuse, and if there would be no disagree rating. Because this "agree versus disagree relation fights" only raises banter additionally.

 

[Nosajimiki]

I disagree. If your opinion goes against the popular opinion, it should be noted in the metadata. Don't get me wrong, it can feel negative to have a minority opinion, but in many cases, this is an indicator that you should be more open to other people's ideas since a strong majority opinion usually exists for a reason. Not all of my opinions that are popular. So when I see a strong opposing voice I try to step back and ask myself:

Do I see what they do not see, or the other way around?

So I try to dig into their perspectives to see why they think the way they do. If having their perspective, I find it invalid, I present them with facts. If they are too stubborn to listen to facts, then I ask the other important question:

What is more fun, my one idea, or a Starmade with no one else left to enjoy it with?

...Frankly, I've never been so attached to an idea that I think Starmade would be better my way in single player, and if I did get there, then I'd really know I was being the stubborn one.

 

[JinM]

I disagree. If your opinion goes against the popular opinion, it should be noted in the metadata.

1984!=) George Orwell sends his regards. But I exagerate ofcourse. Sorry.

you should be more open to other people's ideas since a strong majority opinion usually exists for a reason.

Yeah sure everyone should consider if he should change his opinion, if the majority of people tell him he is wrong. We all don't need the disagree rating for this though. We have polls for that, and we can easily extract from the replies if our opinion conforms with the majority ones.

Secondly: Just because the most people say something is right, doesn't make it neccessarily right. And if we all would adapt our viewpoints to the majority ones, we would still be in the middleages. But that's ofcourse not the suitable argumentative scope for yes or no to ratings.

But this is within the scope: Do you even want, that people with other opinions voice their ideas? I get the sense you don't focus on that at all... And honestly the ratings got abused against minority opinions. Maybe in other forums it did not happen. But here it did.

And this lets people with fresh ideas shy way. They are often enough against majority opinions. For example when it came to power 2.0 or to new weapon ideas. Here in this forum, it directly negatively impacted creative and open minds, that were not conforming with the majority anti-power-2.0 mass. And in the future those people can say what think and no-sayers have one tool less to give them negative experiences back.

 

[NeonSturm]

I cannot agree to the new system because there is no disagree-button against the change-it-back -post.

Not that I would want to. I found the useful-rating quite useful

 

[Nauvran]

agree and disagree should at least be available in the suggestion forum. Informative rating would be nice to have in general subforum.
In general just add reactions/ratings that can give a quick overview or a quick response on posts.
Say we got a suggestion about adding food, people either vote agree or disagree depending on if they like the idea of not, which in return would give an easy way to see what the majority of the forumside community wants with the game.

Of course people could always abuse the ratings but that happens, people abuse everything outside in the real world and that doesnt mean it has to be removed, just moderated. Which is an entirely different issue since we dont have enough moderators.

So all in all adding most of the old ratings back wouldnt be a bad idea, maybe just specify them to the different subforums.

 

[MacThule]

You'd be surprised how false that is. People get tired of saying the same thing again and again.
People wont respond more, they'll just start ignoring people outright. Which is honestly just as bad a little red X overall.

Case and point, I debated a person to a point where they just stopped replying to me in the old alter reee thread. He just stopped responding to me at all and picking at other peoples posts instead. If people cant disagree, they will ignore.

Possibly, but at least people can't casually deface posts with a messy, red X if they have beef, or one-click mock/deride things by rating things they don't like "funny."

I do miss agree. It was never used to annoy or harass.

 

[Valiant70]

The disagree icon could be some color other than red. For some reason people associate bad things with red. Grey would be fine IMO.