Galactic Center Changes and Fix

[leion247]

Now this is a problem. A real problem for people that want to go to other galaxies and build factions away from everyone else. Basically I'm saying is moving to another galaxy is pointless. Literally, if your making a faction there anyways. We all know about the galactic center distance cost. This cost is based on the distance you are from the center of the galaxy making the points required for keeping a sector more costly. While this is nice in theory, it doesn't work that well. People can't have factions far out because of this and everyone makes factions in the center of the galaxy. That's not the broken part though.

What's broken is that the center of the "galaxy" is always the spawn point whether you entered a new galaxy or not. This is just broken. It makes small and medium factions way out in another galaxy impossible, literally. The galaxies a server can have are useless because of this. How I propose to fix that problem is to give every galaxy there own galaxy distance cost from their centers. When you enter a new galaxy you will be subject to it's cost and not the previous one. The spawn will no longer be the galatic center for the universe, and instead just it's galaxy. This would make factions possible in other galaxies, allowing people that don't want to deal with other people on servers, because of them just starting out on it, be able to go far away and build up until they want to, and are ready to, deal with others.

I would also suggest basing the cost on the amount of sectors you own, along with how far they are from the home planet, and not the galactic center as there isn't much reason for that, since there is no home planet you start on in the beginning of the game. There is nothing that you need that's near the center of the galaxy, so why a cost from being farther away? What's so important that the player needs to be near the center? Just didn't make sense to me since there are other ways to do it.

 

[Jaaskinal]

That mechanic is supposed to cause territorial disputes; one faction isn't large enough to sustain it's current claims, but look, there's a one man faction with only an outpost near spawn.

 

[Lecic]

People can't have factions far out because of this and everyone makes factions in the center of the galaxy.

Intended behavior. Factions that move far away rarely have PvP, simply because it's a pain in the ass to go halfway across the galaxy to fight someone.

 

[leion247]

Intended behavior. Factions that move far away rarely have PvP, simply because it's a pain in the ass to go halfway across the galaxy to fight someone.

True, but we must remember, it's because of this mechanic that makes going out to the other galaxies pointless making the ability to have extra galaxies pointless. Plus, that's what warp gates are for.

 

[Lecic]

True, but we must remember, it's because of this mechanic that makes going out to the other galaxies pointless making the ability to have extra galaxies pointless. Plus, that's what warp gates are for.

Literally the only reason to leave the starter galaxy is to get away from everyone else. That comes with some downsides. Deal with it. If you don't like it, disable it in your config, or convince a server owner to change it.

 

[leion247]

Literally the only reason to leave the starter galaxy is to get away from everyone else. That comes with some downsides. Deal with it. If you don't like it, disable it in your config, or convince a server owner to change it.

No need to be so aggressive. I was just pointing out the stupidity of the galaxy cost with how it currently is. I don't mind it being a thing, but have it make sense at least. Why should the starter galaxy be the center of the universe?

 

[Lecic]

No need to be so aggressive. I was just pointing out the stupidity of the galaxy cost with how it currently is. I don't mind it being a thing, but have it make sense at least. Why should the starter galaxy be the center of the universe?

To keep things centered? It's so people don't just go and fuck off to a new place 10 galaxies over.

 

[leion247]

To keep things centered? It's so people don't just go and fuck off to a new place 10 galaxies over.

Shouldn't it be the option of the player to do so if they want too? Developers can influence how the game is played by people, but they shouldn't force things on us. People like the freedom of choice.

 

[Lecic]

Shouldn't it be the option of the player to do so if they want too? Developers can influence how the game is played by people, but they shouldn't force things on us. People like the freedom of choice.

It IS the option of the player. Change the configs, talk to server owners or host your own server if you want it to be in multiplayer. The default config is the way it is to promote people staying near the center of the galaxy so they actually fight eachother.

Also, large factions have no issues with being very far away from the center of the galaxy. The only factions that have trouble with this setting are 1 to 3 man factions.

 

[leion247]

Also, large factions have no issues with being very far away from the center of the galaxy. The only factions that have trouble with this setting are 1 to 3 man factions.

That's why I posted this thread in the first place. Smaller factions likely won't be interested in fighting, so they would want to go out far from people, but they can't sustain that because of how it currently is. Many people would also rather not have to talk to a server host to change it as they likely won't, unless really nice, and most people don't know how to even start to change a config let alone find it, assuming they even have the will to go find it. Not only that but hosting a server that works well can be really expensive. Most people don't have the money or time for that because of personal life. Not to mention that many people won't have the software to even open the files when they find them such as Notepad++.

People that want to play with friends, but can't start a server will many times have limited choices on good servers that won't go down within few days and almost all servers have pvp. Finding a good pve server isn't easy, so most will likely just find a decent server over all and fly far away so they can just play with there friends. The current galaxy feature doesn't help. If people want to go away from everyone else, then they should be able to without major penalty.

With your stubbornness, not saying it's a bad thing, I'd like to suggest to have an option. Three if you will. Three options for players when they make a single player and for server owners. 1) starter galaxy is center of universe, 2) galaxies have separate centers, and 3) no galaxy centers altogether. It would be in the options before you start the world like everything else. We've got to remember that not everyone knows and or is willing to go into the files to change something, or brave enough to talk to other people, let alone a server host.

 

[DivineEvil]

If you ask me, I hate multi-galaxy system we have now. There's no point having any but a galaxy you start with, so I'm all for only one and only one galaxy, and a soft border, which will gradually lower the maximum speed and prevent jumping as you approach it. Fine, let server owners then decide how large it should be, it will make a perfect sense. But using conventional engines to get from one galaxy to the other is non-sensical. If players are so afraid of PvP, they should not play on PvP servers.

Regarding OPs suggestions too far, you're making too many excuses for people who want a change, but do not want to lift a finger to reach it, and want everything being given to them, with a click of a mouse in the worst case. Player's laziness has reached some pretty impressive heights in these past 3 years, and its disgusts me. If someone cannot investigate a simple question, I'm not really sure how's someone like that goes around in his daily life.

 

[Ithirahad]

It IS the option of the player. Change the configs, talk to server owners or host your own server if you want it to be in multiplayer. The default config is the way it is to promote people staying near the center of the galaxy so they actually fight eachother.

...But this is a stupid system, too little, too early... It rarely results in people actually fighting each other (Griefers and... certain people... notwithstanding, but that stuff shouldn't happen anyway) and still doesn't produce a reason to fight; it just results in a big ball of factions sitting in the center not doing much. Once we have something to actually fight over, then just running out of the galaxy won't be a feasible option and it'll balance itself out.

 

[leion247]

Regarding OPs suggestions too far, you're making too many excuses for people who want a change, but do not want to lift a finger to reach it, and want everything being given to them, with a click of a mouse in the worst case. Player's laziness has reached some pretty impressive heights in these past 3 years, and its disgusts me. If someone cannot investigate a simple question, I'm not really sure how someone like that goes around in his daily life.

You make solid points. I could say that you're wrong and such, but that would just make me wrong as well because you speak truth. Although not a full truth. Many gamers that are that lazy are likely to be the casuals that play games for fun and in short amounts of time. The casual gamer market have grown dramatically over the past five years. Especially since Youtube and mobile gaming became a common thing. Basically, you are right, gamers have become lazy, just not the "true" gamers, or at least to the extent you have explained. Casuals don't exactly know how making video games work and just expect them to be given to them.

Sorry about all the excuses, but I didn't have much to go on with Lecic's hardhead stubbornness. Didn't seem like anything I said even mattered to him so far. I guess it's these situations when things are easier done than said.

Although I must say not all my excuses are for the lazy, most are personal reasons. I currently am apart of a 3 man/woman faction, but since we keeped jumping servers from them dying for unknown reasons we joins one with larger amounts of player. Those being the ones that have 10 people on it. We don't like fighting as we have just started playing the game, although I've played it before a year ago when it was worse. We were tired of having to jump from server to server, so we stopped bothering looking for good ones that met a requirement and just choose one without rules regarding roleplay. I've moved two galaxies away but we can't own a sector because of the current way things are making the game less fun. Even when we moved to the center of own new galaxy it costed around 318 a turn. I personally found it dumb that the galaxy center ment the starting sector of the server. It wasn't very descriptive and the name doesn't make much sense either. We also need to own the sector now as we are going to be housing the C.I.N. station. The C.I.N. is a organization of factions. You can think of it as the U.N., but in starmade. It'll be a kilometer long, so it'll take a long time and as such needs to be far from everyone else to guarantee it from being damaged while under construction. It'll have warp gates that connected the galaxies making the center of the galaxy cost only damaging to what the C.I.N. can achieve as a whole. With how it currently is we can't have factions that are far, but still connected both physically and politically, which is one of the things the C.I.N. plans to do. Sorry about the ranting. I'll make a separate form for what the C.I.N. is all about and will be able to do in the general discussion sometime after I've worked out the details of what it will do, but I will say this, it will change how Starmades diplomacy between factions works forever... on the server it's on anyways.

I also agree with your statement on the one galaxy thing. Although unlikely to happen, I think I'd prefer something like that too. Makes everything easier and would make the current feature make sense.

This whole discussion has gotten out of hand though. What I've been basically trying to say is that I like the cost for being far from the center of a galaxy, but having the center of the starter galaxy also the center of the entire universe is strange. Sure you can argue it's for promoting faction wars, but there isn't really any gain in doing that right now. I was suggesting to have every galaxy have it's own local galaxy distance cost. This would have it still be in the game while letting people that want to go to other galaxies be able to without major penalty for wanting to explore and have fun from discovering new land no one else has been too, but to solve the problem of people getting the center of galaxies for territory, because of cheapness, by using the center of the galaxy feature for home sectors.

But again, I don't disagree with you, but I don't agree with you fully either. Just by reasonably good sized amounts, and I apologize for my own errors. Your post was helpful for recollecting my thoughts and my standpoint on this whole thing for easier explanation. ^_^

 

[DivineEvil]

Sorry about all the excuses, but I didn't have much to go on with Lecic's hardhead stubbornness. Didn't seem like anything I said even mattered to him so far. I guess it's these situations when things are easier done than said.

All I can say is that you're overestimating the probability of your station being attacked. Even considering the slight probability, it is still possible to build a station quickly and safe enough, using the Home station invulnerability. Of course it requires some significant preplanning, i.e. determining the target value of resources required to finish it and collecting these resources beforehand. Saving up a number of turrets for protection and then hauling them to the construction site via JumpShip is also a viable method.

In the end, it all rounds up to your construction technique. Predetermined infrastructure and architecture with currently unlimited item stacks allows you to build a fully functioning station in a matter of hours. You can construct and pre-save a multitude of station parts via Advanced Build Mode. Adding to that, the fact that you have several loyal companions eases the problem tremendously - each one can work on different parts of the station at the same time.

To give you some perspective to think about, I'll tell you how I do. Sintet Combine builds stations using a 25x25 grid standard. Similar to any grid-based strategies, each module occupies a certain amount of these grids in horizontal dimensions, and also as in these RTS, requires a certain amount of resources that consist the core of the said module. All Sintet ships has dimensions specific to the weight class they represent, thus for every weight class there's a certain docking bay size that occupies a certain number of grids. Similarly, for each turret size class there's a turret port specifically designed to house that turret. If I want to increase the shield strength of a station, I know that I need 5k of Caps and 5k Regs to add an additonal shield module, even though Paste presets does not specify these numbers. Even if not using any presets, making your construction in a form of pattern reduces the time you're wasting on being confused by your choices and actions. Make all choices in advance, then just follow them in an orderly faschion. How to make it work is up to you to decide, since you're the one designing a style of your faction.

Only when functional minimum of a station is completed, the visual design follows, which can be individual for said station. This methodology has taken me half-a-year to develop, but together with four-way symmetry it allows to build stations quickly regardless of target size.

I would recommend you to stay in an original galaxy still. It still a vast amount of space, where anyone can find a good spot. Moving away from it not only takes enormous FP expenses, but virtually nullifies your political influence - the very basement of what you're trying to achieve. Origin Galaxy is where all the politics takes place. Only if you're happened to drown in some major persecution from other factions should you consider moving out. It is moslty your behavior is what dictating your engagement with other forces in SM, not your location.

 

[leion247]

I would recommend you to stay in an original galaxy still. It still a vast amount of space, where anyone can find a good spot. Moving away from it not only takes enormous FP expenses, but virtually nullifies your political influence - the very basement of what you're trying to achieve. Origin Galaxy is where all the politics takes place. Only if you're happened to drown in some major persecution from other factions should you consider moving out. It is moslty your behavior is what dictating your engagement with other forces in SM, not your location.

All this information is very helpful. I'm very glad that you've given me such an abundant amount of info. I'm sure I can make much use of this. Also, you're right, I probably should move back, mostly for the political reasons. I can tell you my friends won't be too happy about that though. The station will take a long time just because it will literally take about 1/4th of a star system length. May be over exaggerated a bit, but it'll be huge to fit a marketplace, a fleet of Peace Keepers, along with other important things like warp gates to other galaxies or factions. I can tell you making all the resources for this thing will take a while, which is why I'm currently making a huge salvager that will eat asteroids instantly and space stations quickly. I can estimate a week or two of continuous resource gathering and crafting before the actual making of the station. I'll be personally making the power generators as I've become proficient in making high optimizes ones that fit in any ship size, literally.

Thank you, you've helped me a great deal, and I'd like to repay you after the stations done. If you'd like to be, I'll leave a slot open for being a permanent member of the Council if you're interested. The official name was decided and it's The Interstellar Council of Independent Systems. (I.C.I.S.) There's only going to be 5 perma members max. They will be perma members of both the normal council and the security council. They will be mostly of politically and economically influential factions... oh dear, I'm starting to rant again. Sorry about that. The entire thought of the I.C.I.S. gets me excited. ^_^ I get all tingly on the inside. Although I must say we have gone quite from from what the thread was originally about, lol. The server it's being made on is Aetherion if you were wondering.

 

[DivineEvil]

The station will take a long time just because it will literally take about 1/4th of a star system length. May be over exaggerated a bit, but it'll be huge to fit a marketplace, a fleet of Peace Keepers, along with other important things like warp gates to other galaxies or factions.

That is not a mere exxageration, if you're meaning what I'm reading. This is a technically dangerous endeavour. Even making an avergae station crossing from one sector into another alone is large rick for bugs and other issues. Making a station the size you've specified is just obscene. Making several stations in adjacent sectors and joining them together on the boundaries might work, but still is an overkill. It's not that I'm agressively confronted by the idea; I'm just afraid you'll end up giving up long before even the half of the work is done. Ambitions are the best, but only when they're reasonably weighted. Pragmatic as I am, and the race I represent.

For all considerations and purpoces, no station must extend beyond a sector it is located in, and it is highly beneficial to find a precise center of that sector before creating it. This is done by making a Core with Metal Meshes surrounding it from all six directions, aligning it to the sector axises using 'C', moving the core and checking around with Right Shift, until all six adjacent sector markers will match up with the centeres of Metal Mesh transparent textures. When these conditions are met, you salvage the Core and voila, you're in the exact middle of the sector.

If you'd like to be, I'll leave a slot open for being a permanent member of the Council if you're interested.

I might consider it when you're actually would achieve some of your goals. When you'd think it is fine for me to come by, the Sintet Combine will manifest itself.

 

[leion247]

I might consider it when you're actually would achieve some of your goals. When you'd think it is fine for me to come by, the Sintet Combine will manifest itself.

I wasn't aware of the risks of having a station cross a sector. I don't plan to stop on the plan though because I've always wanted to be apart of a united council of nations. <3 I have always been fascinated with the idea of it. I'm taking personal responsibility for a lot of the important things such as setting up how it works, and recording all events the council has such as voting results and relations between members. It'll be so fun to create and run with other factions to better the rest of the galaxies and strengthen lesser developed factions to standards of modernday factions such as large ships, optimized batteries, abundant amounts of resources, killing pirates in owned sectors, and advanced crafting set ups for easy use. I'll definitely keep in mind the risks of building in multiple sectors and find a way to set it up around that fact. I've already thought of a way. Having docking areas (not that it wasn't going to have docking areas), and at thoughs docking areas there will be ships for moving around the station sectors. It'll let both quick and convenient moving around such a large place. It'll be better than having to walk everywhere.