Recognized Fuel mechanic proposal

    Keptick

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    Not quite, if the specifics are done right. Raising the softcap, you'd just have people building monstrously large crosses through their capitals, with even more monstrous power outputs. IVs would allow efficient power gen over the softcap, while still being somewhat limited and impractical if used in excess. The no-stats-trasfer thing means you sacrafice significant volume in order to get your regen, the regular shape rule will require reactor cube design, the isolation part could make them weak points if, say, puncured.
    Not really, the power formula can be adjusted afaik. That's what happened when the soft cap was raised from 1mil e/sec to 2mil e/sec, the curve was adjusted so that you'd need around 2x the amount of power blocks to achieve the new bonus. I get what you mean though, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't happen without a dev screwing up. Also, you stated that regular shapes is basically just rectangular prisms, right? If so, you could just have 1*1*x areas and stick line reactors in there (not as efficient as crosses but it'd still work on ships that are already going over the normal cap). Making it cubic areas only would only encourage the creation of doomcubes.

    In addition, docked reactors can currently be made so that they're giant crosses/latices meshed inside your ship, they don't have to be rectangular prisms (don't forget that the rail docking system supports irregular docking shapes). So in the end it's the same as just increasing the soft cap properly :p

    Don't get me wrong, you have a pretty good idea. Thing is, I don't even think that your solution could be implemented without requiring some massive overhaul in the game's code.
     
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    I think that one of the first things to go should be the ridiculous system that says 3 power generators in a cross is more efficient that 4 in a box. Seriously!

    More generators=more power. Maybe if we work based on filled volumes it'll get better.

    I recommended all of this earlier but here's a simple version: Take various types of reactor, each with different size constraints.

    The very biggest can be used on capital ships for good efficiency at high expense, and the smallest used on fighter-sized craft for ridiculously good power at the cost of fuel. Larger ships use fuel efficiently, smaller ships gain larger boosts, problems solved.....with some problems added, as always.
     

    Valiant70

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    The lines and crosses need to go at some point. They're not like reactors at all.
     
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    Why are players still on the idea of killing off the big ship builders. Thrust is the key to defeating large ships, little 100m ships should not be squaring off with a 600m battleship. Start the fight on one of the sides and stay out of the main firing arc

    Removing the softcap would remove the need for dockgen's, the game would run better for all as its less logic/entities to load.

    Adding explosive fuel, good for large ships that can hide it, bad for small ships when a larger ships cannon pen's through their ship.

    Removing supply beams from autologic could work, it would at least hold back the line of crazy size and at the times of fleets it would give ships that have a supply beam a purpose instead of hiding in a capship. Yes its a setback for all the ships out there but this is alpha...
     
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    yeah I think alot of the games problems would be fixed by reducing the need for docked entities, huge block counts and xyz reactor builds.

    I still think the solution is to increase many systems blocks stats, along with their costs and mass. So say 250 power reactors/capacitors have the same stats in every way as 1000 blocks. The game would have much less to render and people would be able to build decent system instead of half filling their ships with blocks that just add to rendering issues and you'd see a massive increase in frame rates for everyone.

    Currently building a ship in starmade is like building a car and having the engine take up 3/4 of the insides. This problem is why docked generators have become so popular and almost necessary for ships, especially large ones, and let's be frank to make a nice decently wedged ship that doesn't look like some ugly mini lego kit you're looking at a minimum ship length of 100m-2000m MINIMUM.

    And before the nay sayers say "OH BUT PEOPLE WILL JUST SPAM THE FREE SPACE WITH MORE BLOCKS", so what? they'll just be penalizing themselves with a ship that is so heavy it cannot move and will be easy picking for smaller ships for it's lack of maneuverability.
    As I have said elsewhere in the past, this is not a case of "MAKE IT SO I CAN SPAM MOAR SYSTEMS PLZ" It's about common sense and logical, practical ship design and increasing performance.

    But seriously half this games performance problems come from having to render so many blocks at once and the answer is reduce the amount of blocks rendered. Look at most scifi ships from movies and film, they have engine rooms, with decent sized reactors/power plants. Currently in StarMade if you try to build a 1:1 scale ship in detail, it will have no where near the power and performance required to live up to it's 'real' counterpart and be weak as wet paper.

    I'd like to build say a 500m frigate that has say 4 reactors in an engine room that produces the juice i needs intstead of entity menu filling/breaking reactors all over the place filling up half my ship just for it to be competitive and functional.
    Look up blueprints for popular sci-fi ships. Look at their power plants and energy storage, they're usually quite small in comparison to the overall ship size.

    If Schine did this it would remove the need for so many docked entities and increase performance of the game massively, aswell as allow for much more detailed interiors on ships.

    Honestly rebalance the stats as much as you want, that will not change the average computer chugging when it has 200,000 plus blocks on screen to render when it could be rendering 1/4 as many while keeping the balance exactly the same as it is now.

    Hell remove bonuses and replace them with an upgradable system. Build your power then buy an expensive add on that boosts it like how linking weapons works, or have several tiers for each systems. Standard, Advanced and Ultra. or something. So the block count never increases but the stats do because you bought better equipment not spammed more frame killing blocks into what space you had left on your ship.
     

    lupoCani

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    Alright, sorry if this comes across as debate-y of me.
    Not really, the power formula can be adjusted afaik. That's what happened when the soft cap was raised from 1mil e/sec to 2mil e/sec, the curve was adjusted so that you'd need around 2x the amount of power blocks to achieve the new bonus.
    In addition, docked reactors can currently be made so that they're giant crosses/latices meshed inside your ship, they don't have to be rectangular prisms (don't forget that the rail docking system supports irregular docking shapes). So in the end it's the same as just increasing the soft cap properly.
    That's kind of what I wish to avoid. Although giant crosses can certainly be balanced, they're not new. As a ship gets larger, it gets easier to squeeze in sufficiently-large lines. While I, for one, actually like the lines and crosses approach to power gen, it gets old as ships grow large. The idea behind IVs is to preserve lines-and-crosses, while adding a few new considerations and limitations, and creating more reactor-like structures.

    I get what you mean though, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't happen without a dev screwing up. Also, you stated that regular shapes is basically just rectangular prisms, right? If so, you could just have 1*1*x areas and stick line reactors in there (not as efficient as crosses but it'd still work on ships that are already going over the normal cap). Making it cubic areas only would only encourage the creation of doomcubes.
    Well, yes, lines are an issue. There's a few approaches- IV walls could consume power, encouraging the minimization of surface area, there could be a penalty that grows with the ratio between the largest and smallest dimension, or perhaps something to limit how many IVs you can have at once, forcing you to optimize. Doomcubes, however, aren't that concerning I think. I mean, if there's an important component that's near-cubical, you generally don't distribute all your other components in an even layer across the surface of said component. If anything, I would think enforced regular shapes would contribute to neat and organized systems design.


    Don't get me wrong, you have a pretty good idea. Thing is, I don't even think that your solution could be implemented without requiring some massive overhaul in the game's code.
    Not so sure about that one. I mean, algorithmically it's quite simple, and warp gates and shipyards have all proven the devs can make dynamic, geometric systems without disaster.
     

    Lecic

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    Look up blueprints for popular sci-fi ships. Look at their power plants and energy storage, they're usually quite small in comparison to the overall ship size.
    I want you to look at a image of what an actual space craft's systems-to-interior ratio looks like.


    Also, massively increasing the strength of every block is a horrible way to fix our problems, especially considering how that isn't possible for armor blocks as they can't have more than 255 HP.
     

    lupoCani

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    I want you to look at a comparison of what an actual space craft's systems-to-interior ratio looks like.


    Also, massively increasing the strength of every block is a horrible way to fix our problems, especially considering how that isn't possible for armor blocks as they can't have more than 255 HP.
    Can't EHP be increased nearly arbitrarily with armor values? I disagree with the idea of course, but it isn't impossible technically.
     
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    If you are going to add fuel, make it a finite resource that can be mined from gas clouds or something and make it rare enough for people to fight over, this is an opportunity to give people something to fight over and make more PVP in the game, people need something to fight over.
     
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    I want you to look at a image of what an actual space craft's systems-to-interior ratio looks like.


    Also, massively increasing the strength of every block is a horrible way to fix our problems, especially considering how that isn't possible for armor blocks as they can't have more than 255 HP.

    I am guessing you've already forgotten the conversation we had in private about reading what the person you're replying to has actually said and not changing it into something else? Thanks for showing exactly what I meant in that chat Lelic. :rolleyes:

    I say sci-fi ships so naturally you pull a realistic space craft out........because you know, StarMade being a true to life Space Sim and all where every ship is based around the Apollo Missions.......... o_O

    Please send me your paypal details, I wish to hire you an English tutor to teach you to read and understand context.

    You will stay on topic and actually read and respond to what you have read correctly one of these days. I have faith in your ability to learn, as slow as that learning may be. ;)

    Now get back to me once you are going to reply to what I actually said, not what you imagined and we can talk more. :)

    Also I never said massively increase the strength of every block. Again, please learn English and how to read and if in doubt ask for clarification. If you need me to type slowly just say the word.
     
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    keptick Seeing as you're on the council and 'recognizing' your own suggestion, I'm going to assume there's a good chance of this actually happening. Therefore, my recommendation if this does go through is to make it an optional setting in the config for servers.
     
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    Thats abit cheeky, recognizing your own idea.

    The council coruption has begun!
     
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    keptick Seeing as you're on the council and 'recognizing' your own suggestion, I'm going to assume there's a good chance of this actually happening. Therefore, my recommendation if this does go through is to make it an optional setting in the config for servers.
    You completely misunderstand how the council works. A councilor's suggestions have no more chance of being implemented then any one else. Just because it is 'recognized' by one councilor has no bearing on what another councilor feels about the idea. At 50+ posts and 25 ratings this thread should be recognized, who cares who puts on the sticker.

    Considering the amount of people who seem to like the idea of fuel, I'm guessing some sort of fuel system will make it into the game. And since I am one of the few who loath the idea I am all for making it optional. (or just leave it out entirely and let the modders deal with it)

    $0.02
     

    Keptick

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    keptick Seeing as you're on the council and 'recognizing' your own suggestion, I'm going to assume there's a good chance of this actually happening. Therefore, my recommendation if this does go through is to make it an optional setting in the config for servers.
    Thats abit cheeky, recognizing your own idea.

    The council coruption has begun!
    Ofc I submitted it to the devs and only gave it the "recognized" tag because they recognized it as a valid suggestion that would fit into their future plans (otherwise it would be "recognized by council").

    And just so you know, I talked with the devs and the chances of this happening are actually pretty slim. An other solution will likely be implemented to solve docked reactors (nothing concrete yet so I can't really talk about it).
     

    Lecic

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    I am guessing you've already forgotten the conversation we had in private about reading what the person you're replying to has actually said and not changing it into something else? Thanks for showing exactly what I meant in that chat Lelic. :rolleyes:
    Everything I've said has related to the topic on hand.

    Also I never said massively increase the strength of every block. Again, please learn English and how to read and if in doubt ask for clarification. If you need me to type slowly just say the word.
    Yes, you did.

    I still think the solution is to increase many systems blocks stats, along with their costs and mass. So say 250 power reactors/capacitors have the same stats in every way as 1000 blocks. The game would have much less to render and people would be able to build decent system instead of half filling their ships with blocks that just add to rendering issues and you'd see a massive increase in frame rates for everyone.
    I'd like to build say a 500m frigate that has say 4 reactors in an engine room that produces the juice i needs intstead of entity menu filling/breaking reactors all over the place filling up half my ship just for it to be competitive and functional.
    Honestly rebalance the stats as much as you want, that will not change the average computer chugging when it has 200,000 plus blocks on screen to render when it could be rendering 1/4 as many while keeping the balance exactly the same as it is now.
    Can't EHP be increased nearly arbitrarily with armor values? I disagree with the idea of course, but it isn't impossible technically.
    Theoretically, yes. However, if you boost the strength of all the systems (including hull), people will build ships with significantly more hull to fill in the gaps, and ships will be unbreakable armor bricks. If you don't buff hull, then we go back to the tissue paper hull, with people just spamming lots of shields again, murdering the diversity of weapon and defensive types.
     
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    Dangit, I just wrote all that and it got deleted.

    OK, so, anyway. Apollo missions were built using non-sci-fi tech and had to clear Earth's gravity. Invalid point there, sorry.

    Fuel should be used only when put into a proper setup.

    Fission reactors should have their own, semi-rare fuels and designs, fusion reactors very common materials (According to Star Wars, on the graph of most common things in the galaxy, right before TIE Fighters and right after stupidity, comes hydrogen, a potential fusion fuel) but require expensive materials and a largeish ship to use. Antimatter generation requires, well, antimatter, and a storage method, and a small space in which to catch the heat and turn it into power. Also, it requires antimatter. One of the rarest things in the universe. But it gives all the energy you can get from Einstein's famous equation.

    The present reactors should be only useful for basic designs and small ships.
     
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    I see another potential in using fuel
    one of the things that often piles up is soil .. I never use the stuff
    for that I wanted to have a garbage disposal block that works like the storage but whatever you put in will burn ofc ....

    with that in mind .. why not let the burning process also produce energy ?
    2 flies in 1 clap
     

    Benevolent27

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    This is something I wrote to address the problem concerning docked reactors. I based it on previous community polls, which suggested that people were pretty inclined to the idea of fuel replacing docked reactors. So from that I wrote up an actual way to make that work. I'm sharing it to see what the community thinks, so don't hesitate to post comments/questions in response to this thread! You can skip the "introduction" and "current solutions" parts if you're already well acquainted with the problems caused by docked reactors. If you have any suggestions about the values I intentionally left blank (x), then please leave them below as well!

    Fuel mechanic proposal

    The problem:

    This solution is intended to solve the current problems outlined below (order is irrelevant):
    1. Docked reactors cause massive server issues due to the collision lag they produce when they undock mid-combat after their docked gets shot. This leads to combat being an unenjoyable lag-fest.
    2. Docked reactors provide an unfair advantage to veteran players against new players, due to their really unintuitive nature (ok, that's sort of debatable)
    3. When it comes to player piloted ships (excluding fleets and AI here), there isn't enough of a difference between large and small ships to justify the exclusive usage of small ships. As a rule of thumb larger ships just provide more advantages despite the higher efficiency of smaller ships. Nerfing the efficiency of large ships further would reverse the situation (small ships -> big ships), which is also undesirable. Both ship types need to have their use and roles in the starmade universe, or at least concrete advantages/disadvantages.
    It is worth noting that the game is currently balanced with the use of docked reactors. Even if it's not intentional, combat is balanced between ships using docked reactors. FYI it's good balance, we don't want that changed (for the most part). I'd go as far as saying that not using docked reactors for ships over the power cap, and still have them perform at an acceptable level, is unfeasible. With that said, apart from problem #3, docked reactors fit well into the current balance of the game.

    In addition, docked reactors serve as a kind of weak point for larger ships, and that's a mechanic that I think is worth keeping.

    Current (flawed) solutions:

    With that in mind, here's a list of current solutions to solve the problems. They all fail to solve the problems up there without destroying the current balance. That's just off the top of my head, there's probably more (order is irrelevant):
    1. Introducing fuel and having it give a bonus to the current power system: I assume that this would come as a % increase in power, or some similar bonus. The problem is that it couldn't be balanced properly with the scaling ship sizes. It'd have to be ridiculously large to compensate for the current power increase gained by docked reactors, and that in turn would make small ships completely OP. To avoid that the % would need to be on a curve, but that would be absolute cancer to balance properly.
    2. Removing the power cap: An argument can be made for this solution: "People use docked reactors to circumvent the power cap. Essentially, it's like ships equipped with docked reactors don't have a power cap. In addition, the balance situation has been reversed since the introduction of the power cap: Larger weapons now have less efficient damage and power consumption, which is the opposite of the old waffle weapons ppl used (which lead to the power cap being added). The efficiency curve on large ships is currently dictated by weapons, thrust and defence, not power. So the question is: Is there still a point to having a power cap?" (I came up with that argument btw). The problem is that docked reactors are still slightly less efficient than outright power, since they require power supply beams and other stuff to work. In addition, it wouldn't solve the issue with large and small ships essentially competing for the same roles, with one having a massive advantage over the other with no downside other than a slight efficiency drop.
    Having considered the two solutions and their problems, I came up with a solution that effectively replaces the functionality of docked reactors without compromising it, and solves the problem #3 at the same time.

    THE SOLUTION:

    This is a multi-faceted solution, but you'll see it's actually quite simple. I split it in parts to make reading/understanding simpler. I also didn't get into specific numbers because that can easily be determined separately. Each part has a small description, an explanation of the mechanics, and the reasoning behind them. READ THE WHOLE THING OR ELSE YOU WON'T UNDERSTAND THE REASONING BEHIND EACH POINT!!!

    Fuel reactors:

    Fuel reactors would be a new block. In essence, it's a copy of the current reactor blocks with a few differences/conditions. Please note that it would be AN ADDITION TO THE CURRENT POWER SYSTEM, NOT A REPLACEMENT! I can't stress this enough! Ships would have the ability to have both normal reactors and fuel reactors at the same time. Here's the specifics:
    • It would only provide power when fuel is being fed to it. Fuel consumption would scale linearly with power production.
    • It would use the same formula as the current system. By that I mean that it would use the same dimension system as the normal power reactor system (so lines/crosses). It would also produce the same amount of power for the same amount of blocks as the current system.
    • Power production would be capped at 1 million (that value should be adjustable by config), PER FUEL REACTOR GROUP. By that I mean that each fuel reactor group (aka fuel reactor blocks touching each other) could reach a maximum amount of 1 mil e/sec (just an example value). This also means that you can have more than one fuel reactor group to achieve as much power as you want (assuming you have the space and fuel ofc).
    • A flat fuel consumption penalty of X percentage would be given for each additional fuel reactor. Basically the same as amount of weapon outputs and their energy consumption penalty increase. This penalty should be adjustable by config.
    In essence, this mechanic would mean that large ships could achieve higher power production in the exact same way as with docked reactors, while also having a running cost. The running cost, in the form of fuel, balances out the increase in power production efficiency. In addition, it also means that mid-sized ships that don't necessarily have the space to have 1 million groups would need to be built intelligently to maximize fuel reactor gains with the smallest amount of groups as possible (to not have ridiculously inefficient fuel consumption due to a high amount of groups, and therefore penalty). It adds a degree of design to construction, which is something people generally love. Finally, it gives an advantage to smaller ships since they don't have a running cost since they wouldn't go over the default reactor's 2mil e/sec cap. That way new players or factions aren't burdened by fuel production and cost. It adds some more progression to the game. Of course I fully expect people to use normal reactors supplemented by fuel reactors for combat situations, which would be the right thing to do (same thing as with docked reactors :p ).

    Fuel pump/tank:

    Essentially an extension of the cargo system. This is used to store fuel:
    • It'd work the same way except as the cargo system except that it would only be used to store fuel. So you have the "fuel pump" block and the "tank block", which are the same as the storage block and the cargo area (I think that's what it's called?).
    • The fuel stored would be automatically pulled from the fuel pump(s) to fuel the reactors. No need to link all the fuel reactors to the fuel pump block.
    • The pump block could be turned on/off with logic, turning it off would cut off the fuel supplied to the fuel reactors (so you can turn your fuel reactors on/off with an inner ship remote).
    • Filled fuel tanks (aka fuel tank slabs) would explode when shot. Could be turned on/off via server config.
    I don't really have to explain the reasoning behind this part, it's pretty self-explanatory. The only thing I'd like to talk about is the explosive fuel tanks: This serves as a disadvantage to using fuel, as it adds some a weak spot (exactly like docked reactors do now, with the risk of them being shot off an all). In addition, it adds another layer to design, being the protection and positioning of fuel tanks (which sounds incredibly fun).

    Fuel refinery:

    A factory-type block used to refine [insert raw fuel resource name here] into spaceship grade fuel.
    • Could only be place and used on stations.
    • Could be made faster through the use of factory enhancers
    • Would consume X amount of power per fuel unit produced. This number could be adjusted via config
    • (this depends on the faction/ressource update) Could not be placed on homebases.
    The three first points are pretty self-explanatory. As for the fourth, it will depend on how resource gathering will work. If raw fuel/resources have to be extracted with stations or other installations, then refineries could be placed on homebases. If it'll only come from asteroids, which don't require anything special to mine, then refineries could NOT be placed on homebases. The reasoning behind this is that it should be possible to disturb the infrastructure used by factions to maintain their capital/large ship fleet. If a faction is too small to attack a more powerful faction head-on, then it could be possible to be covert and locate/destroy enemy refineries or raw fuel production facilities to make their larger ships unusable. This balances out the power that large ships confer to larger factions by giving alternatives to dealing with them (it basically solves most of problem #3).

    I basically don't want fuel production to fall under home base invincibility like everything else, cause it sucks, and promotes homebase sitting and doing nothing, which is killing the faction/multiplayer scene.

    Power supply beams: Those would be changed to make it impossible to make/use working docked reactors (cause what would be the point of fuel if you can get the same thing from an infinite energy source). I think that's a given. This could be done by making it so that they can't be activated with logic, or some other super secret magical coding way that only Schema knows of.

    Conclusion
    In conclusion, the fuel system would solve the problems caused by docked reactors without upsetting the game's balance or requiring people to completely modify their ships (docked reactor emplacements could be replaced with fuel reactors). It also solves the issue of small and large ships not having defined advantages and disadvantages, along with creating additional layers of design (fun) and sparking faction conflict/interaction (also fun). That is all, thanks for reading.

    Leave a like and/or comment if you support, comment if you don't (with explanation)!

    By Keptick​

    PS: People could still just spam normal reactor blocks if they wanted to achieve high power levels without using fuel. Of course, that's if they don't mind the trade-off of having no fuel cost for severely lowered power efficiency. It's more or less the same thing with docked reactors currently (except that the cost is the effort required to build them and get the buggy wireless logic working).

    I like the idea of fuel in ADDITION to the current power system. I had posted a similar idea here. I also like the idea having alternative ways to make energy. For example, nuclear reactors, solar generators, mining and processing fuel from planets that burn in tanks. Each one would have their own pros and cons.

    I definitely agree that we need to move away from the concept of docked reactors. The lag is real. One thing I do not understand though is why there is jitter for stationary docked entities. I find that I have to put a rail speed controller to the dock, when they are close to each other and set the attached activation module to off, to set the rail speed to 0 and then the jitter stops. A lot of the lag I get is from that. But once the entity gets it's rail blown up.. all sorts of collision detection really messes up the gameplay. So, on one hand I find that if I do not use these reactors, my titan ship really really stinks, but if I do use them.. then if a real, good fight actually occurs and I take some damage and some reactors get blown off.. The battle quickly becomes a giant lagfest and nobody is having any fun. So do I have to purposely put them on the outside of my ship where they can be damaged and blown off easily? *sigh* Though I do believe something is ADDED by having this sort of thing in game, I don't like any of the choices I need to make. Having the same sort of thing, but NOT as a separate entity, would really help solve the issue. And if we can make the game more interesting and add diversity to power systems at the same time.. I think that would be awesome. :)
     
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    I see another potential in using fuel
    one of the things that often piles up is soil .. I never use the stuff
    for that I wanted to have a garbage disposal block that works like the storage but whatever you put in will burn ofc ....

    with that in mind .. why not let the burning process also produce energy ?
    2 flies in 1 clap
    So the whole planet garbage disposal idea? Sure. I like that. It shouldn't produce energy though, it should(ratios) use 5 energy to turn 10 dirt/stone/treestuffs/planetguts into one fuel capsule. That fuel capsule put into a fuel reactor(somehow, jto) would create 10 power. So you have a 1:2 ratio of power usage.
    [DOUBLEPOST=1458745147,1458744627][/DOUBLEPOST]
    yeah I think alot of the games problems would be fixed by reducing the need for docked entities, huge block counts and xyz reactor builds.

    I still think the solution is to increase many systems blocks stats, along with their costs and mass. So say 250 power reactors/capacitors have the same stats in every way as 1000 blocks. The game would have much less to render and people would be able to build decent system instead of half filling their ships with blocks that just add to rendering issues and you'd see a massive increase in frame rates for everyone.

    Currently building a ship in starmade is like building a car and having the engine take up 3/4 of the insides. This problem is why docked generators have become so popular and almost necessary for ships, especially large ones, and let's be frank to make a nice decently wedged ship that doesn't look like some ugly mini lego kit you're looking at a minimum ship length of 100m-2000m MINIMUM.

    And before the nay sayers say "OH BUT PEOPLE WILL JUST SPAM THE FREE SPACE WITH MORE BLOCKS", so what? they'll just be penalizing themselves with a ship that is so heavy it cannot move and will be easy picking for smaller ships for it's lack of maneuverability.
    As I have said elsewhere in the past, this is not a case of "MAKE IT SO I CAN SPAM MOAR SYSTEMS PLZ" It's about common sense and logical, practical ship design and increasing performance.

    But seriously half this games performance problems come from having to render so many blocks at once and the answer is reduce the amount of blocks rendered. Look at most scifi ships from movies and film, they have engine rooms, with decent sized reactors/power plants. Currently in StarMade if you try to build a 1:1 scale ship in detail, it will have no where near the power and performance required to live up to it's 'real' counterpart and be weak as wet paper.

    I'd like to build say a 500m frigate that has say 4 reactors in an engine room that produces the juice i needs intstead of entity menu filling/breaking reactors all over the place filling up half my ship just for it to be competitive and functional.
    Look up blueprints for popular sci-fi ships. Look at their power plants and energy storage, they're usually quite small in comparison to the overall ship size.

    If Schine did this it would remove the need for so many docked entities and increase performance of the game massively, aswell as allow for much more detailed interiors on ships.

    Honestly rebalance the stats as much as you want, that will not change the average computer chugging when it has 200,000 plus blocks on screen to render when it could be rendering 1/4 as many while keeping the balance exactly the same as it is now.

    Hell remove bonuses and replace them with an upgradable system. Build your power then buy an expensive add on that boosts it like how linking weapons works, or have several tiers for each systems. Standard, Advanced and Ultra. or something. So the block count never increases but the stats do because you bought better equipment not spammed more frame killing blocks into what space you had left on your ship.
    Wait, did you say you want to increase block efficency as the ship gets larger?! Then whats stopping people from just having 10x as strong titains that can move just as fast bc of 10x thrusters? If in combat the ship stats were saved and the ship inards not visable to anyone would be rendered as 2x2x2 or 4x4x4 block pixels than it might be fine, but making every block more and more dense(component and job wise) and more powerful than your giving every ship an exponental boost to any smaller ship. The large ship is
    A. Larger, it should win anyway
    B. Now it's already better systems have a buff to make them even stronger.

    I know, you kicked the argument that the thrust cost would be to high, but whats to stop people from,placing more megaboosted thrusters and more light system blocks like op shields and power caps.

    You also talked about the "popular scifi ships" . Have you noticed that they aren't balanced and hacked at by players? The shield core centers are tiny, whats to stop people from spamming them everywhere? Scifi is cool for Tv and video, but in an interactive game(with starmades versitality at that) those models are to easily exploitable if they were in game.

    Lastly you talked about removing the grouping systems that seperate a noob placing random blocks making a doomcube from builders that use game mechanics to make builds more efficent and stronger. An upgrade system without complexity turns the game into a pretty large grind rather than a skillful adventure. From the Depths has an ok system for this, the basics are pretty simple but strong and good systems require practice, learning, and reasources rather than just using the replace tool to replace all your old power systems with new, better ones.

    Making more costly and better systems that are the same size and weight also presents problems with balancing. Later game players could easially kill much larger ships with their tiny but invincible ships.

    My 22 lines:).
     
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