The problem with StarMade in regards to ship speed is that its too realistic. Currently theres no reason to not make a ship that is a giant box which has the greatest volume for equipment while if you look at Sci Fi most ships have at least rounded edges while fighters and bombs look like atmostpheric planes with shorter wings. Because its easier to make a box, they can easily outperform a model of the enterprise or a star destroyer. The best way to fix this in my opinion is to impletelement a basic aerodynamic friction system that will make ships move alot slower based on their shape so that a box is barely able to move compared to a thinner ship.
Friction in space
- Thread starter Mosshadow
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 64
- Reaction score
- 16
Well.. aerodynamics in space does not really count if you think logical. I am not expert in this and I should acctualy have no guarantee in what I am saying.
1. Some (generous) assumptions:
-.We have a spaceship that can reach a reasonable fraction of light speed.
-The ship is able to withstand the high energies of matter impacting at that speed.\"
Found this on the web and it does make sense but then again we have no \"light speed\".
2. At that speed aerodynamic shape would be unimportant since almost all particles would penetrate the hall. So more important would be total cross-sectional area perpendicular to velocity (how many particles per second collide with ship). So I assume that ship should have torpedo like shape to reduce total cross-sectional area.
This makes more sense though, but I agree on the boxships being alittle bit too stronk:<
1. Some (generous) assumptions:
-.We have a spaceship that can reach a reasonable fraction of light speed.
-The ship is able to withstand the high energies of matter impacting at that speed.\"
Found this on the web and it does make sense but then again we have no \"light speed\".
2. At that speed aerodynamic shape would be unimportant since almost all particles would penetrate the hall. So more important would be total cross-sectional area perpendicular to velocity (how many particles per second collide with ship). So I assume that ship should have torpedo like shape to reduce total cross-sectional area.
This makes more sense though, but I agree on the boxships being alittle bit too stronk:<
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2013
- Messages
- 20
- Reaction score
- 0
Just to put in some random sience (which doesn\'t matter anyways since this is a GAME and NOT a SIMULATION)...
Aerodynamics describes the behaviour of an object in compressable fluids. Exspecially in air (aer (greek) = air).
The appropriate more general term would be fluid dynamics for the behaviour of an object in a fluid (liquid or gas). But as you may know there is no medium in space and its (almost) empty.
Your idea isn\'t that bad, but please refer to it as: \"ships should accelerate based on their shape to promote dynamic shipshapes\" rather than asking for \"aerodynamics\" or other random science terms which have nothing to do with that case.
But to get back to the topic...
Fluid dynamic calculations require such a huge amount of computer performance that for example ship shapes are still tested in chambers. The existing block-to-block collision system of starmade takes already an enormous amount of performance in the game and even though i don\'t know shit about programming i\'m pretty damn sure that implementing such a complex system would be a nightmare for the ingame performance.
Aerodynamics describes the behaviour of an object in compressable fluids. Exspecially in air (aer (greek) = air).
The appropriate more general term would be fluid dynamics for the behaviour of an object in a fluid (liquid or gas). But as you may know there is no medium in space and its (almost) empty.
Your idea isn\'t that bad, but please refer to it as: \"ships should accelerate based on their shape to promote dynamic shipshapes\" rather than asking for \"aerodynamics\" or other random science terms which have nothing to do with that case.
But to get back to the topic...
Fluid dynamic calculations require such a huge amount of computer performance that for example ship shapes are still tested in chambers. The existing block-to-block collision system of starmade takes already an enormous amount of performance in the game and even though i don\'t know shit about programming i\'m pretty damn sure that implementing such a complex system would be a nightmare for the ingame performance.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2013
- Messages
- 150
- Reaction score
- 0
We are the Borg, Lower your shields and surrender your ships, your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own, your culture will adapt to service ours, Resistance is Futile.
Keptick
Building masochist
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2013
- Messages
- 4,062
- Reaction score
- 1,841
Btw, the current model is extremely unrealistic. There is no (or barely any) friction in space and yet our ships slow down. There is also no max speed in space (except speed of light if you follow current physics models) and yet we are capped.
Scifi movies, shows or stories are a VERY bad example btw. Most of the aerodynamic fighters you see are made that way because they can operate in atmospheres (like lukes\' X-wing and stuff like that)
I\'m not defending cubes, I hate cubes. I\'m just proving that this is a really bad solution, it would also need an entire physics engine overhaul and would just lag out the game from all the calculations.
Scifi movies, shows or stories are a VERY bad example btw. Most of the aerodynamic fighters you see are made that way because they can operate in atmospheres (like lukes\' X-wing and stuff like that)
I\'m not defending cubes, I hate cubes. I\'m just proving that this is a really bad solution, it would also need an entire physics engine overhaul and would just lag out the game from all the calculations.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2013
- Messages
- 1,831
- Reaction score
- 374
Really, if you want people to make RP ships on your server, you\'d have to get someone to go into godmode with a lightsaber or something and destroy all the deathcubes.
There\'s no algorithm that will make people have RP or good-looking ships at all. Instead, all we can do as a community is encourge everyone to try to make pretty ships.
There\'s no algorithm that will make people have RP or good-looking ships at all. Instead, all we can do as a community is encourge everyone to try to make pretty ships.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2013
- Messages
- 277
- Reaction score
- 20
don\'t exist.
The End.
On the side:
The only reasons why you want an \'\'aerodynamic\'\' shape for your ship are:
- it looks good
- it\'s easier to fly
In EXTREME cases, space dust might be thinck enough to actually cause friction on your ship, thereby slowing it down in space. Normally though, you would just continue on flying forever in the same direction. By the time you get anywhere, your ships hull will have been sand-blasted to bare metal.
And actually, why WOULDN\'T you build a giant BOX in space? I mean, why not? It\'s easy to build out of really basic shapes, it\'s efficient, it\'s intimidating. A real life cube spacecraft would probably not be unheard of (once we\'re all flying psaceships). But then you can\'t land it on Earth. BUT then you wouldn\'t because your cube would be many kilometers across.
The End.
On the side:
The only reasons why you want an \'\'aerodynamic\'\' shape for your ship are:
- it looks good
- it\'s easier to fly
In EXTREME cases, space dust might be thinck enough to actually cause friction on your ship, thereby slowing it down in space. Normally though, you would just continue on flying forever in the same direction. By the time you get anywhere, your ships hull will have been sand-blasted to bare metal.
And actually, why WOULDN\'T you build a giant BOX in space? I mean, why not? It\'s easy to build out of really basic shapes, it\'s efficient, it\'s intimidating. A real life cube spacecraft would probably not be unheard of (once we\'re all flying psaceships). But then you can\'t land it on Earth. BUT then you wouldn\'t because your cube would be many kilometers across.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2013
- Messages
- 128
- Reaction score
- 17
The name of this post. It\'s so oxymoronic it\'s funny. Please, google the definition of words before you use them.
Im just refering to the fact that most space operas act as if there is air in space. But as you guys say it will make things processor intensive and hard to make some ship types
Winterhome
Way gayer than originally thought.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2013
- Messages
- 1,929
- Reaction score
- 636
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2013
- Messages
- 603
- Reaction score
- 203
Yes, most shapes in space would probably be cubes or more likely pods because there is less material on a pod with a diameter equal to a cube with the same l/w/h.
Universal Century says hi.
Of course, it\'s much easier to make a cube than a sphere in a voxel game like Star Made. You know, we\'ll always have cubes because it is easy, but there are still advantages to making different kinds of ship shapes. Flat wedges will always have lower forward profiles, long spear type ships will always have better thrust/mass ratio, etc.
There are mechanics that can be changed to reward more creative ships, but space friction and space aerodynamics aren\'t the answer.
Universal Century says hi.
Of course, it\'s much easier to make a cube than a sphere in a voxel game like Star Made. You know, we\'ll always have cubes because it is easy, but there are still advantages to making different kinds of ship shapes. Flat wedges will always have lower forward profiles, long spear type ships will always have better thrust/mass ratio, etc.
There are mechanics that can be changed to reward more creative ships, but space friction and space aerodynamics aren\'t the answer.
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2013
- Messages
- 208
- Reaction score
- 0
There IS no resistance in space, acceleration would just change based on mas/thrust ration like it does now, however if you want realistic turn the PHYSICS_LINEAR_DAMPING setting all the way to 0 so that there is no resistance, and if you bump a ship it\'ll keep moving forever... since that\'s what would happen in space. I like it that way to a certain extent, with it at 0 it\'s realistic, but if you bump a ship, or jump out of a moving one, its pretty much gone forever. 0.01 is pretty good. In space the shape of a ship honestly wouldn\'t matter, my sisters friend looked at my game and saw a block ship, he shouted \"wow a game where in space they don\'t build aerodynamic ships! finally! its realistic. I don\'t get why in movies and things they have aerodynamic ships in space, it isn\'t a very efficient use of materials.\" or something along those lines. He is a very practical person and has taken I think 8 years of college and taken classes on just about everything.
In space (learned this in Aerospace) a flashlight could propel you through space. it would be VERY slow acceleration, but it would get you going fast in years. The light pushed on the flashlight, and would make you move. The reason I mention this, is that if you are going fast, you should be able to take your finger off the thrust and keep going that speed. I know this is unreasonable for a game, but its realistic.
That in mind, My own twist on this. Have it so while your in a ship there is no damping, but if your not in it there is. This way while your in a ship you can take your hand off the thrust and keep moving, but use shift to stop. But if you jump out, or bump something, you don\'t loose it forever. Makes it semi realistic, but still reasonable.
In space (learned this in Aerospace) a flashlight could propel you through space. it would be VERY slow acceleration, but it would get you going fast in years. The light pushed on the flashlight, and would make you move. The reason I mention this, is that if you are going fast, you should be able to take your finger off the thrust and keep going that speed. I know this is unreasonable for a game, but its realistic.
That in mind, My own twist on this. Have it so while your in a ship there is no damping, but if your not in it there is. This way while your in a ship you can take your hand off the thrust and keep moving, but use shift to stop. But if you jump out, or bump something, you don\'t loose it forever. Makes it semi realistic, but still reasonable.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2013
- Messages
- 1,114
- Reaction score
- 41
