Forge Welding

    Lone_Puppy

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    I would still like this available in shipyards. I think this would certainly be valuable in PVP.
    [doublepost=1474500268,1474500198][/doublepost]
    An addendum, though: It would be nice if there was a way to track what was an addition, so that if you want a jack-of-all-trades ship then you can have the shipyard take the original blueprint, break it down, add a different module to the now-replaced merge-block, and boom, ship modified.
    Oooh... I like that idea! :)
     
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    It would be nice if there was a way to track what was an addition, so that if you want a jack-of-all-trades ship then you can have the shipyard take the original blueprint, break it down, add a different module to the now-replaced merge-block, and boom, ship modified
    You can just save a mastercopy. That would be an added process that would really just be extra data needed.
     
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    No, it wouldn't. Since ship cores should sometime in the future (TM) track their original design/blueprint/whatever, you should just have an extra option that intentionally removes those extra blocks.
     
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    I like this idea, however I would much prefer it to be a more generic "combine two entities into one" system rather than some complex one.
    That way it can also be used on stations and I do not see the need for a shipyard to be involved (they are already quite buggy, please don't make me use them :,( )
     
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    No, it wouldn't. Since ship cores should sometime in the future (TM) track their original design/blueprint/whatever, you should just have an extra option that intentionally removes those extra blocks.
    Or, just leave the forge docker in place, just as a marker for the human where the old module was. You want to remove the part? You're gonna have to go out there with a cutting torch.
     

    Edymnion

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    I'd still think it would be easier to simply save the design of the base unmodified ship and designs of all the modules so that you could load them in piecemeal. Then when you get a design you like, save that off as a finished ship.
     

    Blakpik

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    It is an excellent idea, all things said, I've often Built separate entities just as modules, and it is inconvenient to use the copy and paste feature, which is unwieldy for anything that isn't a square and it limits the size of the thing that I'm trying to paste, welding would be an amazing addition.
     
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    I like this. I also would like copy/paste to work better. I suggest a config option that on makes you use a shipyard to merge the entities, and when off merges the entities upon docking.

    I think having something happen to the forge docker/rail, like it becomes whatever the closest armor/hull block is, would be better than deleting it. IE: the rail is touching(or nearest to) a grey hull, and no other types are closer, the rail/docker becomes a grey hull. If one is touching a grey hull and the other is touching a StdArmor, it becomes the StdArmor, ect. Same for the ship core on the component that has the forge docker attached to it. My 2 cents.
     
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    I think having something happen to the forge docker/rail, like it becomes whatever the closest armor/hull block is, would be better than deleting it. IE: the rail is touching(or nearest to) a grey hull, and no other types are closer, the rail/docker becomes a grey hull. If one is touching a grey hull and the other is touching a StdArmor, it becomes the StdArmor, ect. Same for the ship core on the component that has the forge docker attached to it. My 2 cents.
    That's too complicated and unpredictable if the forge docker/rail is adjacent to different blocks. I'd just leave the forge blocks in place by default and add the possibility to link them to another block, by which they'll be replaced upon welding.
     
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    Edymnion

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    I'm currently working on a carrier titan concept (still just thinking through everything) and I REALLY wish I had this right now.

    I'd love to just build the fighter bays, or the bridge, or any number of individual components without having to worry about where they go at the moment.

    Actually just start building bays around the fighters, get them perfect, then move them around to see where I'd want them to go instead of basically needing to build the ship and then fit the bays into it.

    Or even just start on some engine porn.

    Make all the assorted components I want, the bits that are going to be the most fun to design, and then basically weld them in place on a skeleton and then flesh the rest of the ship out around those bits.

    Sure, I could do that now with tremendous use of copy/paste templates, but this would just make things so much easier...
     
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    I'm currently working on a carrier titan concept (still just thinking through everything) and I REALLY wish I had this right now.

    I'd love to just build the fighter bays, or the bridge, or any number of individual components without having to worry about where they go at the moment.

    Actually just start building bays around the fighters, get them perfect, then move them around to see where I'd want them to go instead of basically needing to build the ship and then fit the bays into it.

    Or even just start on some engine porn.

    Make all the assorted components I want, the bits that are going to be the most fun to design, and then basically weld them in place on a skeleton and then flesh the rest of the ship out around those bits.

    Sure, I could do that now with tremendous use of copy/paste templates, but this would just make things so much easier...
    Why aren't templates a solution for you? I know the copy paste controls are pretty nasty, but surely you could do what you're describing here with them (assuming you're in single player with no template size restriction).

    Don't think I don't like this suggestion (I made an absolutely identical one about a week and a half before this one was posted), but I don't really see why templates won't do the job.

    What's really needed are proper copy/paste controls.
     

    Lukwan

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    Why aren't templates a solution for you?
    I can imagine many uses for this option but if I tell them to you your imagination will get no exercise. :p

    -Templates are currently limited by the XYZ sliders (default is ten). Currently the in-game menu does not offer a way to increase it.
    -Using weld-blocks or merge-blocks-or paste-registration blocks is simple and direct. It can be done spontaneously while building without leaving the Flow-state.
    -It can be used easily by two people in a co-build because the system is block-oriented.
    -It allows joining of modules that can be of unlimited size.
    -Modular sections could be easily shared as BPs. Sharing Templates?...
     
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    Lukwan said:
    1: Templates are currently limited by the XYZ sliders (default is ten). Currently the in-game menu does not offer a way to increase it.
    2: Using weld-blocks or merge-blocks-or paste-registration blocks is simple and direct. It can be done spontaneously while building without leaving the Flow-state.
    3: It can be used easily by two people in a co-build because the system is block-oriented.
    4: It allows joining of modules that can be of unlimited size.
    5: Modular sections could be easily shared as BPs. Sharing Templates?...
    1: agreed, that one right there is a cock-block for anything to do with Templates. It, and it alone, is the single greatest challenge to overcome.
    (and simply changing it so anything you "paste" via anything, takes, oh, a half-second per block would help massively with convincing server admins to increase that limit. look at how much it helps in Minecraft, where anything that "quick-pastes" more than about 50 blocks cripples the server, but if it does it block-by block at about a half-second each, it doesn't cripple the server. *it does slow it down a fair bit*)

    2: Easy~er, agreed. (the big problem with Templates here, is the complete and utter inability to control which of the 8 corners of a cube the template is pasting from. that breaks my "build flow" whenever I have to stop and re-jigger the template so it pastes properly.)
    (pirates attacking breaks my "build flow" too, but at least that is a fun distraction, so long as they don't fork-over my build)

    3: Massively Easy~er, agreed. (the big problem with Templates for this bit, is the other player can't see whatever you're doing, and you can't see what they're doing.)

    4: Yes and No. Depending on how "quickly" (see the small-text in #1) it codes in the new blocks, it might run into the same server-killing problem as a 100x100x100 cube paste currently does. If it goes slowly, then it most likely would allow bigger modules.

    5: Template sharing is not as difficult as some think. True, it isn't half as easy as sharing a BP (open catalogue, buy a copy, hand it to the other guy *while in game*, or even just un-privatise the catalogue entry), but it is as easy as sharing a file over the internet, by whatever means you prefer.
    (FTP website, E-mail, a shared-hard-drive on a LAN, Google Drive, Drop-Box, any other named cloud storage, etc, etc.)

    EDIT: realized a bit of my response to #4 was missing. Fixed it.
     
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    I like this idea. How about the Schine guys build an option into advanced build mode to "Fuse" existing docked entities, by toggling on an advanced build option to allow you to click on a docker to signal the game to fuse from that point. Which would theoretically integrate/fuse the docked entity to the entity it is docked to and replace the rail/docker with whatever block is selected in your hotbar.
    Well a good way to be able to do the fusing thing would be to add in kind of like a "Fuse" block, which, when you dock a ship, and then activate it, then the ships would both be fused together at the docks. so basically if you activate the fuser while in the mothership, it will delete the core of the docked ship, and then you just delete the rails. It also allows you to actually build an entire ship in only two parts XD If you do it from the docked ship though then it removes the core of the mothership.
     

    Lone_Puppy

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    Well a good way to be able to do the fusing thing would be to add in kind of like a "Fuse" block, which, when you dock a ship, and then activate it, then the ships would both be fused together at the docks. so basically if you activate the fuser while in the mothership, it will delete the core of the docked ship, and then you just delete the rails. It also allows you to actually build an entire ship in only two parts XD If you do it from the docked ship though then it removes the core of the mothership.
    It's a great idea, but with the block ID limitation it would be simpler to use existing blocks to achieve the same result. Perhaps a new piece of equipment, like a welding tool that somehow performs the task of the block you describe. Maybe it melds two adjacent blocks and then converts them to a standard block, also triggering the process of shifting the docked entity to the main entity and thus changing the core to some generic block or camera or something. Actually a camera would be handy.
    [doublepost=1475566321,1475565795][/doublepost]Actually I like your idea of the rails just staying there and only the core gets replaced. That way you are not losing anything and then you can swap them out at your leisure.
     

    Edymnion

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    the block ID limitation
    This is not an issue anymore.

    I don't have the thread saved (I should have) but we've seen one of the devs say that they are either redoing it or found a way around it and that there is currently no code based limitation based on a finite number of block IDs. They can and will make as few or as many blocks as they think they need.
     
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    I don't have the thread saved (I should have) but we've seen one of the devs say that they are either redoing it or found a way around it and that there is currently no code based limitation based on a finite number of block IDs. They can and will make as few or as many blocks as they think they need.
    They said they could increase block data from 3 to 4 bytes per block, but I don't believe in unlimited IDs, unless you come up with that link.
     

    Edymnion

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    They said they could increase block data from 3 to 4 bytes per block, but I don't believe in unlimited IDs, unless you come up with that link.
    Brief low level computer refresher for anyone that doesn't know (keeping it simple to avoid unsigned vs signed and various other things out of the conversation).

    A byte is 8 bits. A bit is a single binary 1 or 0. When you count in binary, 1 - 2 - 3 becomes 01 - 10 - 11. 8 bits means eight slots, for a maximum of 11111111, which is 255.

    2 bytes can store up to 65,535.

    3 bytes can store up to 16,777,215.

    This is where we are now. Clearly we aren't at 16+ million blocks because a lot of that space is being used for rotation facets (up, down, left, right, front, back), on/off status, etc. We currently have about 700 blocks in the game, with each time we rotate a block in any direction actually being where we swap in a new block (so a left facing grey hull wedge and a right facing grey hull wedge are two different blocks, the game just switches them out on us whenever we rotate them).

    4 bytes stores up to 4,294,967,295.

    So adding one extra byte to the block file format, assuming the rest of the space requirements for the format remain the same opens up well over 4 billion new blocks.

    That is effectively unlimited.
     
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    4 bytes stores up to 4,294,967,295.

    So adding one extra byte to the block file format, assuming the rest of the space requirements for the format remain the same opens up well over 4 billion new blocks.
    That isn't how it works. Most of the 3 bytes is used for orientation, activation and HP. A fourth byte would multiply the available IDs by 256.
    But yeah, we only have 2047 ID's and we're already close to 800 ID's being used. We would easily reach the limit if every block had 3 slab types.
    This would be 256 * 2048 = 524.288 IDs then. Several new shapes, colors and slab versions would quickly use up thousands of additional IDs. So while being a lot, it's not unlimited.