Flying into a star must do more damage to your ship

[aceface]

For god's sake I thought your entire ships would burn/explode in a matter of seconds when chilling in the MIDDLE OF A STAR. I can just take a battlecruiser and wait 10 minutes until it actually overheats...Fighter craft should burn up into flames by just being around the star!

 

[Mariux]

For god's sake I thought your entire ships would burn/explode in a matter of seconds when chilling in the MIDDLE OF A STAR. I can just take a battlecruiser and wait 10 minutes until it actually overheats...Fighter craft should burn up into flames by just being around the star!

I agree. There should be less damage done CLOSE to a star and more damage, maybe insta death when you're inside it. If that makes sense.

 

[starhaiden]

I think ships should be able to go through stars without taking damage for a few seconds then it should take a rapidly increasing damage

 

[aceface]

-_- you how can you go through a 10 000 000 degree burning fireball for a few seconds without anything happening.[DOUBLEPOST=1412071962,1412071888][/DOUBLEPOST]

I agree. There should be less damage done CLOSE to a star and more damage, maybe insta death when you're inside it. If that makes sense.

nah i think that it should also do more damage when next to the star, I mean that's how it is in real life and would just add a small mechanic to keep away from stars

 

[starhaiden]

the sun has to warm up the hull first and this is a Si Fi game set in a fictional future

 

[NeonSturm]

I think that

• heat capacity should be dependent on mass

• heat absorption / cool-down dependent on surface area which is exposed.

• ships < 1000 mass : a fixed value dominates (avoids lag)
  
• big ships and stations: mass^²/³ * face(boundaryBoxFaceArea /boundaryBoxTotalArea) * face(x|y)sin|cos(angle relative to the sun)

• Using power - especially for weapons and thrusters - should also increase the heat level

• That allows perfectly orientated flat (sorry Borgs ships and stations to stay longer and closer near suns, and encourages 1 direction of attack - toward the sun.

• heat-regenerators may give you 0..25 energy per block (dependent on a structures's average heat level) for 1/2 a reactor's cost, thus encourages use on stations which don't care about mass that much.

 

[WaffulMann]

IMO it should be like:
1st second: slow shield depletion, who cares about the star in your face
2nd second: shields gone
3rd second: severe hull damage
3.5th second: nope, ship's dead

 

[jayman38]

To give some science to the discussion:
The surface of the sun is about 5000-6000 degrees C. It's a middle-temperature yellow star. Hotter than a relatively cool red star, but colder than a white or blue star.
Our most heat-resistant metallic element, Tungsten, melts at about 4000 degrees C, and vaporizes at about 6000 degrees C. Carbon as a pure element is slightly higher.
Diamond melts at about 3500 degrees C, and vaporizes at about 5000 degrees C.
Tantalum Hafnium Carbide has a slightly higher melting point than pure Tungsten, melting at roughly 4200 degrees C.

Even in Science Fiction, we probably shouldn't expect any metal alloy to get higher than 5000 degrees before it melts, oxidizes, or hydrolyzes. However, the search for better Ultra-High-Temperature Ceramics marches on. That might get higher than 5000. On the other hand, the use of alloys and ceramics doesn't preclude other SciFi tactics of heat resistance, such as nanite-driven tectonic-plate-style shielding replacement.

Edit: Aside from pure heat, another issue with holding station within a giant nuclear reaction is that subatomic particles like electrons are being ripped from their position, basically causing atoms, molecules, and ultimately, entire structures to fall apart like tissue paper in water.

 

[Saber]

To give some science to the discussion:
The surface of the sun is about 5000-6000 degrees C. It's a middle-temperature yellow star. Hotter than a relatively cool red star, but colder than a white or blue star.
Our most heat-resistant metallic element, Tungsten, melts at about 4000 degrees C, and vaporizes at about 6000 degrees C. Carbon as a pure element is slightly higher.
Diamond melts at about 3500 degrees C, and vaporizes at about 5000 degrees C.
Tantalum Hafnium Carbide has a slightly higher melting point than pure Tungsten, melting at roughly 4200 degrees C.

Even in Science Fiction, we probably shouldn't expect any metal alloy to get higher than 5000 degrees before it melts, oxidizes, or hydrolyzes. However, the search for better Ultra-High-Temperature Ceramics marches on. That might get higher than 5000. On the other hand, the use of alloys and ceramics doesn't preclude other SciFi tactics of heat resistance, such as nanite-driven tectonic-plate-style shielding replacement.

Edit: Aside from pure heat, another issue with holding station within a giant nuclear reaction is that subatomic particles like electrons are being ripped from their position, basically causing atoms, molecules, and ultimately, entire structures to fall apart like tissue paper in water.

In other words, stars are super hot, and super deadly. Just so everyone understands, no flying through them, no reduced damage near them. Stars aren't vacation spots where you go to tan your ship.

 

[AtraUnam]

Also the atmosphere of our sun is actually hotter than its surface (due to a quirk in its internal workings) so the temperature around it is actually higher than the temperature on its surface.

 

[aceface]

the sun has to warm up the hull first and this is a Si Fi game set in a fictional future

just because it's a game doesn't mean it has to have stupidly unrealistic elements

 

[jath]

I really like the idea of a massive power reserve that can only be filled by flying through a stars atmosphere, much like destiny did on star gate universe.

 

[aceface]

 

[Lecic]

I think it should destroy a random 1% of ship blocks per second, but first it does the hull, to make it seem as though the hull is being stripped off the ship by the heat. The longer you are in the sun, the more damage you would take, as 1% would be more and more of the ship.

Shields should hold back the heat of the sun temporarily, but the sun should do a lot of damage to those.

 

[NeonSturm]

To give some science to the discussion:
The surface of the sun is about 5000-6000 degrees C. It's a middle-temperature yellow star. Hotter than a relatively cool red star, but colder than a white or blue star.
Our most heat-resistant metallic element, Tungsten, melts at about 4000 degrees C, and vaporizes at about 6000 degrees C. Carbon as a pure element is slightly higher.
Diamond melts at about 3500 degrees C, and vaporizes at about 5000 degrees C.
Tantalum Hafnium Carbide has a slightly higher melting point than pure Tungsten, melting at roughly 4200 degrees C.

Even in Science Fiction, we probably shouldn't expect any metal alloy to get higher than 5000 degrees before it melts, oxidizes, or hydrolyzes. However, the search for better Ultra-High-Temperature Ceramics marches on. That might get higher than 5000. On the other hand, the use of alloys and ceramics doesn't preclude other SciFi tactics of heat resistance, such as nanite-driven tectonic-plate-style shielding replacement.

Edit: Aside from pure heat, another issue with holding station within a giant nuclear reaction is that subatomic particles like electrons are being ripped from their position, basically causing atoms, molecules, and ultimately, entire structures to fall apart like tissue paper in water.

Also the atmosphere of our sun is actually hotter than its surface (due to a quirk in its internal workings) so the temperature around it is actually higher than the temperature on its surface.

Assume that shields deflect electron ripping subatomic particles around your ship like a lense.
If you build your shields properly and know all the Sci-Fi tech babble they should interact with these particles like a magnet interacts with Iron (maybe give them reduced weapon damage absorption efficiency during sun-dives)

Now assume that we can use a metal which melts at 6000°, shield it with thin heat-reflecting ceramics
and also use heat-sinks which transfer some heat through your ship to the other side which is not exposed that much to thermal radiation.

Also assume that it takes time until the ship parts heats up and that shields may deflect 10-20% of the -incoming- thermal radiation.


How fast will the ship heat up?
How is the heat IRL distributed to a ship near the sun
Is it possible to use materials which isolate in one direction but are thermal-conductive in the other to cool down faster?
Is it possible to regain energy from heat? If we can produce heat with power, shouldn't some future device not make it work (efficiently) also in the other direction too?


I think ships should be especially built for this. These may require some investment in mass (1-3%) and 85% of the mass in parts with currently no active function (hulls, metal grills, ...)

 

[karkinosz]

I don't think even being able to survive getting near the sun makes sense. In real life you would get vaporized long before you reached any matter just by the extreme levels of radiation. And I don't see shields helping much at all, after all our shields can be eliminated by simple weapon's fire. Or lasers which are just concentrated bursts of em radiation, except magnitudes greater.

Really being able to enter a sun just stretches any suspension of disbelief out the window and strangles puppies in the street.

How fast will the ship heat up?
How is the heat IRL distributed to a ship near the sun
Is it possible to use materials which isolate in one direction but are thermal-conductive in the other to cool down faster?
Is it possible to regain energy from heat? If we can produce heat with power, shouldn't some future device not make it work (efficiently) also in the other direction too?

I think ships should be especially built for this. These may require some investment in mass (1-3%) and 85% of the mass in parts with currently no active function (hulls, metal grills, ...)

Other things you may want to ask, how much energy to escape the gravity of the sun? After all it is a very large mass (at least from our POV).
If you were to somehow enter the sun and encountered non-ionized gas would you be able to withstand the pressure.
Materials that are thermally conductive one way would probably be chemically based I guess, a reversible reaction in which the endothermic possess is favoured greatly. Perhaps for starmade we could just invent some almost-but-not-really-unobtainium plating for ships.
I don't think making energy from heat DIRECTLY is possible, everything kind of tends towards disorder so you have difficulty making something useful like electrical energy from heat without making a bunch of useless kinetic(pressure against container walls). Although considering how hot the sun is you probably could make decent energy. You might have issues venting the heat in space since you can only lose heat by radiation... and that doesn't work when surrounded by IR sources hotter than you.

But I digress I'm kind of being lead off by my dislike of the idea.

I think neon's last point could probably be an interesting mechanic. Involving power tanks and heat-> power recievers. Namely you turn off your current generators and switch to the heat ones, now as long as you stop your power from topping out (so the generators can continue to decrease ambient heat in the ship) you will suffer no/minimal damage.

"How heat is distributed to s ship near the sun" Only thing that can transfer heat near the sun is radiation, once you get to touching actual matter from the sun you get superheated gas and ionized gas. Pretty hot at 1 million kelvin in the corona(at a minimum) then cooling down to 20000k in the upper chromosphere. It only gets cooler from there although not sure we would get that far.

Could think of other things but I'm getting tired. Night all.

 

[jath]

 

[starhaiden]

what about a special type of hull that can withstand the heat and radiation of a star, it could absorb the radiation and heat around it and turn it into electrical energy that goes into the generators. when the ship is at it's maximum power capacity and it is still in the star the power storage blocks explode once it is over 10% of maximum storage.

 

[NeonSturm]

Or lasers which are just concentrated bursts of em radiation, except magnitudes greater.

Just because a computer can be hacked by a certain combination of bits doesn't mean sending 11111....1111 with just a few bits flipped to 0 permanently can hack a computer too.
Maybe to disable shields that effectively you need to modulate your weapons in resonant frequencies...

Other things you may want to ask, how much energy to escape the gravity of the sun? After all it is a very large mass (at least from our POV).

I think ships that can go from a planet to another without FTL in a humans life time should have enough energy to escape a Star.
Gravity would be a much greater problem for manned ships, but if you can produce artificial gravity in the opposite direction that wouldn't be that much of a problem anymore.

Probably ships should only be able to touch the sun surface at equal relative speed if they have anti-gravity modules,

Or use elliptic orbits (which also solve the problem of getting rid of the heat from time to time and getting different heat levels to produce energy from)
That would just be problematic if you wanna touch the surface.

Perhaps for starmade we could just invent some almost-but-not-really-unobtainium plating for ships.

Do you read things about phase-shift?

The theory:

You create a resonating (maybe magnetic) field and this field can interact with matter which have a certain phase as matter is also a self-sustaining magnetic field of this phase.

There are certain main phases which are separated by phases which are difficult to cross.

Think about a highway with many lanes ( 1 2 3 ~ 4 5 ~ 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 ~ 11 12 ~ 13 14 15 ~ 16 ...) where at each "~" driving direction is inverted or has a major step in relative speed to the previous lane.

Because nobody knows the truth, nobody can say it is unrealistic (you can only say it is not probable)​

 

[karkinosz]

Just because a computer can be hacked by a certain combination of bits doesn't mean sending 11111....1111 with just a few bits flipped to 0 permanently can hack a computer too.
Maybe to disable shields that effectively you need to modulate your weapons in resonant frequencies...

Not sure where that bit came from, what I mean was if a laser mounted on a ship could break shields then shielding wouldn't stand a chance against the sun.

I'll look into the phase bit, sources please? Sounds interesting.