Recognized Fleet Command Hotbar

    Would you prefer to command your fleets from a dynamic hotbar/toolbar or from a static menu?

    • Dynamic hotbar/toolbar

      Votes: 10 66.7%
    • Static menu

      Votes: 1 6.7%
    • Other (please share :)

      Votes: 4 26.7%

    • Total voters
      15
    Joined
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages
    1,696
    Reaction score
    1,199
    • Thinking Positive
    • Likeable
    I believe that admirals are going to want the same level of command and control over their fleets that captains have over their ships, not just a canned, static menu.

    Fleet formation and organization is perfect in the "K" window, and wouldn't be conducive to controlling via hotbar.

    In the long run though, it may be wise to move fleet orders to a command list + hotbar setup the way a ship's weapons & abilities operate. This way, certain kinds of ships being present in a fleet or certain premium NPCs at the helms of ships in a fleet could give the admiral access to additional hotbar commands (flank, skirmish, in-flight repairs, interdict, additional formations, pursue target, blockade, etc). Admirals could arrange their hotbars to their own preferences, allowing fast and fluid, personalized command of a fleet in the heat of battle.

    The hotbar could also contain sub-grouped ships within a fleet, so while ordering the main fleet to Blockade or prevent any ships reaching a an enemy station, you could quickly select a particular squadron of your fastest fighters, and order them separately to Pursue a shuttle that just left that station at high speed.

    In a fleet-on-fleet engagement you could order a team of destroyers to Close to point blank with the main enemy force, keeping your cruisers back providing heavy fire support while microing your frigates and corvettes to first Flank to the sides of the enemy (seek perpendicular firing vectors with the main fleet), then Focus Fire on the enemy carrier or flagship.

    A toolbox of 20-30 commands would give fleets a lot of flexibility without needing to somehow code in the ability to manually order their spatial positions.
     

    nightrune

    Wizard/Developer/Project Manager
    Joined
    May 11, 2015
    Messages
    1,324
    Reaction score
    577
    • Schine
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Thinking Positive
    I'm mixed between this and a fleet overview mode. Fleet overview would be closer to a homeworld or other RTS view with selection and commands.
     

    Master_Artificer

    Press F to pay respects
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages
    1,588
    Reaction score
    612
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    • Thinking Positive
    YES YES YES YES YES GUTEN TAG HERR JA

    I agree with this suggestion.
     

    nightrune

    Wizard/Developer/Project Manager
    Joined
    May 11, 2015
    Messages
    1,324
    Reaction score
    577
    • Schine
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Thinking Positive
    I'm mixed between this and a fleet overview mode. Fleet overview would be closer to a homeworld or other RTS view with selection and commands.
    To also follow up, I'd love if when you selected one ship they managed to show which custom actions they had. Allowing things like massive alpha strikes or launching all drones.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: MacThule
    Joined
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages
    48
    Reaction score
    7
    • Purchased!
    I think it might be nice for a menu/computer block. That way the flagship could give orders out to the ships under it's command, maybe recursively if the system supports it eventually. I do agree that we should separate being captain of a ship and admiral of a fleet. It provides some advantages to having multiple people in the same ship and gives more possible roles for people to play as.
     
    Joined
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages
    1,696
    Reaction score
    1,199
    • Thinking Positive
    • Likeable
    That'd be nice, but do you mean a second hotbar?
    You know when you're in build mode, you use an entirely different hotbar than when you're in flight mode? So you have one for building, one for flying.

    Both of those are different from the toolbar you use in astronaut mode and two of those (build/astro) can be completely changed by opening cargo in inventory while the third (flight) hotbar actually has 10 hotbars each with 10 slots. So I don't know if "second" would be the correct adjective.

    Fourth is more like it.

    The details of keybinding to access are irrelevant; we've plenty of keys available. The menu WORKS... but I'm looking at the long term and the hotbar approach is accessible for the dev team and fits intuitively with the rest of the game's GUI. They already have several hotbars implemented.

    Astronauts have a unique toolbar.
    Builders have a unique toolbar.
    Pilots have a unique toolbar.
    Admirals will need probably need a unique toolbar in order to be as functional as the other modes.
    Commanders of NPCs will probably need a toolbar too, while we're on the topic...
     
    Joined
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages
    291
    Reaction score
    176
    • Wired for Logic
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Purchased!
    Here's how I think it should work: In flight mode you should have hotbar or a set of button combinations for in-flight fleet controls. The commands that don't take a variable are listed first, and the ones that do bring up the same prompts in flight mode as it did in the fleet menu. This means that formation and sentry modes, which are the easiest to use in flight will come first.

    Then you have the map menu, except you can click in your fleets and issue orders to them. The orders that take a variable are listed first, such as attack/defend sector. You click on your fleets to select them, then you move the indicator over the sector you want to send the fleet, then select one of the commands. Instead of getting a prompt, the game will take the cursors position and use that as the value. In addition to this, there will be a colored line going from your fleets to their destination, to allow you to see the orders you gave them.
     

    Master_Artificer

    Press F to pay respects
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages
    1,588
    Reaction score
    612
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    • Thinking Positive


    Ba-Blamo!

    So, to start off, holding ctrl brings up the "Advanced Build Control Mode"
    Here you can set the "orbital" of ships in relation to the Flagship/Flight Leader that the ship is 'linked' to.
    You can set custom formations and holding patterns this way, and the A^3 bar is the AREA that the AI for the ship will attempt to stay bounded in. Graphics will look exactly like the old docking system for displaying the area that the ship is constrained to.
    They are like Electron Orbitals in a way, as in you know that the ship is in that area. And they cannot overlap with another constraining orbital of a ship in the formation (box turns red and the "apply"/"save" button is greyed out).

    You have the Main AI behavior next, where you can set between different settings:
    This is the easiest to change and could vary from engagement to engagement.
    • Aggressive: The ship will attempt to get within 25-100m of the target's longest axis (aka if the target is 35x 12y 40x then the AI will pick the biggest number and attempt to circle the target staying 40m+(25 to 100m) away.) regardless of the weapon choice equipped. It will attempt to orbit the target at its fastest speed possible and pick an axis not currently occupied by another. Problem: If you send too many drones to a target set on aggressive mode they might end up "queing" for an open slot to orbit the enemy ship at. They will also attempt to stay away from the front of the ship and prefer shooting at the sides and rear, regardless if you have weapons in the front or not.
    • Standard Attack: The ship will move to within just under maximum range of its shortest ranged weapon equipped. This includes turrets. It will then try to position itself so it is not sitting in the front arc of the target.
    • Cautious Attack: The ship will move to within just under maximum range of its longest range weapon equipped. This includes turrets. It will then try to position itself so it is not sitting in the front arc of the target.
    • Standoff: The ship will attempt to move and sit just outside of the target's maximum weapon range. This includeds the enemies turrets. If missile beam is equipped on the target then the AI will default to "Cautious".
    • Escort: The ship will stick close to its parent ship and fire upon anything that is targeting the parent ship. If this ship has point defense guns, they will target any lockons tracking the parent ship before targeting lockons tracking themselves.

    NOTE: I forgot to include these next options on the picture, they would be found listed under "behavior" and would just push the buttons downward. The rest of these are more permanent settings that apply to the craft and turrets at a baseline level on how they are intended to function, and are saved on the blueprint.
    --
    Now you have self preservation, this determines when the AI should start fleeing back to the sector that is the fleets "home". By default this is the sector that the fleet was created in. This applies to only the main entity, cannot be chosen for docked entities. (turrets cannot retreat lol)
    • I am Coward: Will attempt to disengage when the shields reach 35% (10% above the shield sharing limit currently) to prevent damage to docked entities.
    • I like Shields: Will attempt to disengage when the shield is down and it takes over 10% armor or structure damage.
    • I like Armor: Will attempt to disengage when the armor bar is down or it takes over 20% structure damage.
    • I like Systems: Will attempt to disengage when it has 60-65% structure bar left.
    • I am Expendable: Will not disengage. Has a chance to start a reboot cycle upon death.

    Next you have the Targeting Behavior. This is set for both the main ship and can be set for individual turrets as well.
    Any indented bullets are choices that appear under that they have the option to pick to modify the behavior further.
    • Any: Shoots hostile stations, astronauts, ships, and if their is nothing else and they have cannons, they might just shoot missiles if any are around.
    • I Fire at Selected: Shoots at the thing you currently have selected.
    • I Fire Socially: Fires at what the nearest friendly entity is firing at. Note, this means that somewhere, someone needs to have something else other than "I Fire Socially".
    • I hate Astronauts: Will fire at hostile astronauts.
    • I hate Stations: Will fire at hostile stations.
    • I hate Missiles: Hates all Missiles.
      • Selfish: Targets lockons that are tracking it before any others
      • Selfless: Targets lockons that are tracking the friendly that has the most damage before any others
      • Close: Targets the closest missile until the distance between itself and the missile starts increasing.
      • Lockon: Targets lockons before dumb fired missiles and swarmers.
      • Dumb: Targets dumbfired missiles before lockons and swarmers.
      • Swarm: Targets swarmers before lockons and dumb fired.
    • I hate Small: Will fire at the least massive non-docked entity in range.
      • Turrets: Will fire on all docked entities of the smallest ship in range before the main ship itself.
      • Drones: Will fire on the smallest entities that have undocked from hostile ships
      • Shields: Will fire until their are no shields left, then switch to the next smallest target. Will not switch until shields are down.
      • Armor: Will fire at the smallest target that has the lowest amount of shields until the armor bar is depleted.
      • Systems: Will fire at the smallest target that has the lowest amount of shields and armor bar remaining.
    • I hate Large: Will fire at the most massive non-docked entity in range.
      • Turrets: Will fire on all docked entities of the largest ship in range before the main ship itself.
      • Drones: Will fire on the largest entities that have undocked from hostile ships
      • Shields: Will fire until their are no shields left, then switch to the next largest target. Will not switch until shields are down.
      • Armor: Will fire at the largest target that has the lowest amount of shields until the armor bar is depleted.
      • Systems: Will fire at the largest target that has the lowest amount of shields and armor bar remaining.
    • I hate Far: Will fire at the farthest hostile entity in range.
    • I hate Close: Will fire at the closest hostile entity in range.
    Okay. Then after that you can see what passive effects have been detected on the ship as hexagons, and you can click the hexagons to toggle if you want them on or not. They will change from a dull green to a brighter green when toggled on.

    Then below that is the turret AI settings (which now will need to be expanded to include the AI targeting options listed above). Click the button to "switch" between turret selections, the selected turret will continuously pulse white like how ships do when you enter build mode for the first few seconds. (allowing you to visually confirm that you have the turret you want).

    Below that is buttons like save, load, etc etc, and apply. You can save selections so you can change a lot of ships at once without needing to do a lot of clicking if you saved a template for that ship AI.


    Next is the health bar. Normally would display health of astronaut, but in fleet view, it represents the total amount of shields, armor, and (50% of) systems, remaining summed. Simple, if sometimes inaccurate, representation of your current fleet health.
    Then we have the slots, where 66x66 pixel images taken from the blueprint folder of the ship if available (like the 96x96 image in the CC page). In the upper right corner their is a F for Flagship, or L for Flight Leader.
    In the bottom right their is room for an alert notification, [!] if under fire, [eye] if it detects an enemy, and [evade] if it is fleeing. More are welcome.
    In the bottom left their are health stats, and in the top left you can see what task the AI is preforming.

    If the ship is a flagship or a flight leader, you can drag and drop ships into its group, which is displayed like you see above. Their behavior is overridden to the behavior of their parent ship for as long as the parent ship is alive, and you can set the formation like talked about before.

    AI tasks would be like: rushing (moving closer), following, scanning (using any on board scanner when it is done cooling down), evading, fleeing, and hunting (looking for targets) and would be their to give you a general sense of what the AI was doing/thinking about at the time.
     

    Lone_Puppy

    Me, myself and I.
    Joined
    Mar 12, 2015
    Messages
    1,274
    Reaction score
    529
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 8


    Ba-Blamo!

    So, to start off, holding ctrl brings up the "Advanced Build Control Mode"
    Here you can set the "orbital" of ships in relation to the Flagship/Flight Leader that the ship is 'linked' to.
    You can set custom formations and holding patterns this way, and the A^3 bar is the AREA that the AI for the ship will attempt to stay bounded in. Graphics will look exactly like the old docking system for displaying the area that the ship is constrained to.
    They are like Electron Orbitals in a way, as in you know that the ship is in that area. And they cannot overlap with another constraining orbital of a ship in the formation (box turns red and the "apply"/"save" button is greyed out).

    You have the Main AI behavior next, where you can set between different settings:
    This is the easiest to change and could vary from engagement to engagement.
    • Aggressive: The ship will attempt to get within 25-100m of the target's longest axis (aka if the target is 35x 12y 40x then the AI will pick the biggest number and attempt to circle the target staying 40m+(25 to 100m) away.) regardless of the weapon choice equipped. It will attempt to orbit the target at its fastest speed possible and pick an axis not currently occupied by another. Problem: If you send too many drones to a target set on aggressive mode they might end up "queing" for an open slot to orbit the enemy ship at. They will also attempt to stay away from the front of the ship and prefer shooting at the sides and rear, regardless if you have weapons in the front or not.
    • Standard Attack: The ship will move to within just under maximum range of its shortest ranged weapon equipped. This includes turrets. It will then try to position itself so it is not sitting in the front arc of the target.
    • Cautious Attack: The ship will move to within just under maximum range of its longest range weapon equipped. This includes turrets. It will then try to position itself so it is not sitting in the front arc of the target.
    • Standoff: The ship will attempt to move and sit just outside of the target's maximum weapon range. This includeds the enemies turrets. If missile beam is equipped on the target then the AI will default to "Cautious".
    • Escort: The ship will stick close to its parent ship and fire upon anything that is targeting the parent ship. If this ship has point defense guns, they will target any lockons tracking the parent ship before targeting lockons tracking themselves.

    NOTE: I forgot to include these next options on the picture, they would be found listed under "behavior" and would just push the buttons downward. The rest of these are more permanent settings that apply to the craft and turrets at a baseline level on how they are intended to function, and are saved on the blueprint.
    --
    Now you have self preservation, this determines when the AI should start fleeing back to the sector that is the fleets "home". By default this is the sector that the fleet was created in. This applies to only the main entity, cannot be chosen for docked entities. (turrets cannot retreat lol)
    • I am Coward: Will attempt to disengage when the shields reach 35% (10% above the shield sharing limit currently) to prevent damage to docked entities.
    • I like Shields: Will attempt to disengage when the shield is down and it takes over 10% armor or structure damage.
    • I like Armor: Will attempt to disengage when the armor bar is down or it takes over 20% structure damage.
    • I like Systems: Will attempt to disengage when it has 60-65% structure bar left.
    • I am Expendable: Will not disengage. Has a chance to start a reboot cycle upon death.

    Next you have the Targeting Behavior. This is set for both the main ship and can be set for individual turrets as well.
    Any indented bullets are choices that appear under that they have the option to pick to modify the behavior further.
    • Any: Shoots hostile stations, astronauts, ships, and if their is nothing else and they have cannons, they might just shoot missiles if any are around.
    • I Fire at Selected: Shoots at the thing you currently have selected.
    • I Fire Socially: Fires at what the nearest friendly entity is firing at. Note, this means that somewhere, someone needs to have something else other than "I Fire Socially".
    • I hate Astronauts: Will fire at hostile astronauts.
    • I hate Stations: Will fire at hostile stations.
    • I hate Missiles: Hates all Missiles.
      • Selfish: Targets lockons that are tracking it before any others
      • Selfless: Targets lockons that are tracking the friendly that has the most damage before any others
      • Close: Targets the closest missile until the distance between itself and the missile starts increasing.
      • Lockon: Targets lockons before dumb fired missiles and swarmers.
      • Dumb: Targets dumbfired missiles before lockons and swarmers.
      • Swarm: Targets swarmers before lockons and dumb fired.
    • I hate Small: Will fire at the least massive non-docked entity in range.
      • Turrets: Will fire on all docked entities of the smallest ship in range before the main ship itself.
      • Drones: Will fire on the smallest entities that have undocked from hostile ships
      • Shields: Will fire until their are no shields left, then switch to the next smallest target. Will not switch until shields are down.
      • Armor: Will fire at the smallest target that has the lowest amount of shields until the armor bar is depleted.
      • Systems: Will fire at the smallest target that has the lowest amount of shields and armor bar remaining.
    • I hate Large: Will fire at the most massive non-docked entity in range.
      • Turrets: Will fire on all docked entities of the largest ship in range before the main ship itself.
      • Drones: Will fire on the largest entities that have undocked from hostile ships
      • Shields: Will fire until their are no shields left, then switch to the next largest target. Will not switch until shields are down.
      • Armor: Will fire at the largest target that has the lowest amount of shields until the armor bar is depleted.
      • Systems: Will fire at the largest target that has the lowest amount of shields and armor bar remaining.
    • I hate Far: Will fire at the farthest hostile entity in range.
    • I hate Close: Will fire at the closest hostile entity in range.
    Okay. Then after that you can see what passive effects have been detected on the ship as hexagons, and you can click the hexagons to toggle if you want them on or not. They will change from a dull green to a brighter green when toggled on.

    Then below that is the turret AI settings (which now will need to be expanded to include the AI targeting options listed above). Click the button to "switch" between turret selections, the selected turret will continuously pulse white like how ships do when you enter build mode for the first few seconds. (allowing you to visually confirm that you have the turret you want).

    Below that is buttons like save, load, etc etc, and apply. You can save selections so you can change a lot of ships at once without needing to do a lot of clicking if you saved a template for that ship AI.


    Next is the health bar. Normally would display health of astronaut, but in fleet view, it represents the total amount of shields, armor, and (50% of) systems, remaining summed. Simple, if sometimes inaccurate, representation of your current fleet health.
    Then we have the slots, where 66x66 pixel images taken from the blueprint folder of the ship if available (like the 96x96 image in the CC page). In the upper right corner their is a F for Flagship, or L for Flight Leader.
    In the bottom right their is room for an alert notification, [!] if under fire, [eye] if it detects an enemy, and [evade] if it is fleeing. More are welcome.
    In the bottom left their are health stats, and in the top left you can see what task the AI is preforming.

    If the ship is a flagship or a flight leader, you can drag and drop ships into its group, which is displayed like you see above. Their behavior is overridden to the behavior of their parent ship for as long as the parent ship is alive, and you can set the formation like talked about before.

    AI tasks would be like: rushing (moving closer), following, scanning (using any on board scanner when it is done cooling down), evading, fleeing, and hunting (looking for targets) and would be their to give you a general sense of what the AI was doing/thinking about at the time.
    Cool man! Very cool indeed! :)
     
    Joined
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages
    1,696
    Reaction score
    1,199
    • Thinking Positive
    • Likeable
    That is very much along the lines of what I was thinking, Master. I would approach some of it differently, but overall that's a system I could work with. Nice graphic too.
     

    Criss

    Social Media Director
    Joined
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages
    2,187
    Reaction score
    1,772
    • Master Builder Bronze
    • Video Genius
    • Competition Winner - Stations
    We already have ten hotbars yes? And even with capital ships I do not often see all ten hotbars filled. The most I have seen filled are 2, maybe pushing three. So why not make these commands bindable to the hotbar we already have? Sorry if this is what you were suggestions, it seems you want a secondary command hotbar. Thats not out of the realm of possibility but for now lets save on screen space unless we absolutely need to have a second hotbar.

    I completely agree that commands need to be more easily accessed and there are good chances this will happen when improvements are made to the hud and menus.
     
    Joined
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages
    1,696
    Reaction score
    1,199
    • Thinking Positive
    • Likeable
    We already have ten hotbars yes? And even with capital ships I do not often see all ten hotbars filled. The most I have seen filled are 2, maybe pushing three. So why not make these commands bindable to the hotbar we already have? Sorry if this is what you were suggestions, it seems you want a secondary command hotbar. Thats not out of the realm of possibility but for now lets save on screen space unless we absolutely need to have a second hotbar.

    I completely agree that commands need to be more easily accessed and there are good chances this will happen when improvements are made to the hud and menus.
    This is true. I know a lot of players pushed really hard for the 10 in-flight toolbars and I didn't want to presume upon anyone else's pre-existing designs, but you're right. There is more than enough room in the existing toolbars.
     
    Joined
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages
    1,696
    Reaction score
    1,199
    • Thinking Positive
    • Likeable
    So if there's plenty of room in existing toolbars, then the question is: Can fleet commands be made able to be dragged from the fleet command menu into the toolbar?

    Also, how can that toolbar be made accessible at any point? Because the 10-bar toolbar is only accessible in flight mode. So an astronaut running around would have to spawn a core and jump in to access fleet commands; which isn't terrible but isn't exactly intuitive or elegant. Also, since the flight toolbar changes when you change entities, you'd lose your command set when moving to another ship or working in your station...