Recognized Flak weapons

[sayerulz]

Flak weaponry was originally planned for the weapons update, but was cut along with the mine layer. I propose the addition of flak as it's own weapon system, complete with master/slave effects. The function of the basic flak is to fire a shot that will detonate into a number of extremely short ranged cannon shots on proximity to a target, with a random distribution pattern. This makes it hard to miss with, so it is effective on fighters, but at least half of the total damage is not going to hit, so using it against capital ships is less than ideal.

So, now for my take on what the various slave effects will be:

-Flak/cannon: as usual, higher fire rate, lower damage per shot.

-Flak/beam: higher velocity, longer range, longer reload.

-Flak/missile: fires a burst of flak shots that detonate at a set distance rather than by proximity- useful for an area-denial weapon, but not very good for actually killing a single target.

-Flak/pulse: High damage, long reloads, and explodes into a pulse rather than a bunch of cannon shots, making it even harder to dodge.

For slaving flak to other weapons, my thinking is to have it impart a charge-up/burst effect.

-Cannon/flak: fires a series of shots on a single reload

-Beam/flak: hold down click to charge up, increasing damage

-Missile/flak: Lock-on missiles that will detonate on proximity rather than direct contact with a target (alternate idea proposed by jstenholt: Have it fire a missile that travels a set distance from the firing ship before detonating into multiple heatseeking submunitions.)

-Pulse/flak: similarly to beam/flak, charges up from holding down click for bigger damage and AOE.

Effects work as usual.

Feedback is, as always, appreciated.

 

[kiddan]

This would be a really interesting weapon, my only gripe is that all the weapons we have now are so effective already. What major upsides at what cost would the Flak introduce?

 

[sayerulz]

This would be a really interesting weapon, my only gripe is that all the weapons we have now are so effective already. What major upsides at what cost would the Flak introduce?

Well, it could potentially be a missile defense, as well as a long-range anti-fighter weapon that is not affected by AMS.

Really though, I want it more because I think that it's cool than because I need it for some role that current weapons do not fill.

 

[kiddan]

Well, it could potentially be a missile defense, as well as a long-range anti-fighter weapon that is not affected by AMS.

Really though, I want it more because I think that it's cool than because I need it for some role that current weapons do not fill.

I guess missile defense would work pretty well, especially against missile-missile combinations. And now that I think of it, anti-personnel and station weaponry would really benefit from this. I'm sold!

 

[jstenholt]

This is a very solid and well thought out idea. I am very impressed, and I think some Council members would be too, like SkylordLuke.

I have two very minor suggestions, however.

For Missile/Flak, how about a MIRV? The missile travels a set distance from your ship and then splits into a number of smaller missiles which then all track the nearest valid object. So basically a swarmer system that can travel faster, has a longer effective range, but which is more susceptible to AMS weapons.

As for pulse/flak, that one could also use some work.

 

[sayerulz]

This is a very solid and well thought out idea. I am very impressed, and I think some Council members would be too, like SkylordLuke.

I have two very minor suggestions, however.

For Missile/Flak, how about a MIRV? The missile travels a set distance from your ship and then splits into a number of smaller missiles which then all track the nearest valid object. So basically a swarmer system that can travel faster, has a longer effective range, but which is more susceptible to AMS weapons.

As for pulse/flak, that one could also use some work.

Very good idea with the missile/flak, I will add that to the OP. Not sure what else to do with pulse/flak.

 

[kiddan]

Very good idea with the missile/flak, I will add that to the OP. Not sure what else to do with pulse/flak.

Maybe have the pulse flak shoot the sub-projectiles further and with more power but the first/main projectile will remain the same?

 

[spunkiethefirst]

Have pulse/flak fire a sphere projectile instead of the pulse generating at an origin point. Like blowing bubbles at the enemy and don't forget:

 

[Madman198237]

I like the idea of a set flak system, to make it dangerous to fly around a vessel.

Improves AMS considerably, but remember, a bursting shell (Even if it bursts on proximity) won't guarantee a hit on a missile, because of the semi-random distribution of cannon rounds from the burst.


This would be an excellent addition with improved warheads. This would balance the use of warheads with a HIGHLY effective counter.
Also, an idea for AI: Give them a "Flak" setting. Targets warheads, then missiles, then fighters, in that order of priority. If they have no targets, fire randomly into space at longer intervals than necessary for reload.

 

[Zaphord]

Love the area denial part these flak variants. Had a mock battle with a buddy of mine, should've beaten him, but his boarding shuttle was too fast for my turrets. If I'd had flak cannons I could've kept him out of my hanger bay.

I did learn to put anti-personel guns in my hanger bays after this, that'll teach him next time :p.

 

[StarWars1981]

Lol. I like the idea of flak guns, with multiple variants.
Flak/missile results in a large explosion in a set AREA of ranges - between x and y, because fuses are not exact, and that's what are usually used. Plus it looks cooler. Basically a damage pulse-type effect but with the explosion texture.
Flak/cannon results in that burst of cannon rounds - all low damage, but a lot of them, so it's good for hitting missiles and things. More damage per shot than a cannon/cannon, but longer reload on the main shot.
This would result in large barrages of short-ranged flak going off, blasting into pieces right off ships and throwing shots in a scatter along their flight trajectory. These would be very effective against lightly-shielded, lightly-armored targets and insanely effective against missiles - at a suitable power cost and requiring multiple blocks of output for any effect whatsoever on anything tougher than a 1HP missile.
Flak/pulse is a longer reload, higher damage, smart-projectile. Detonates upon approaching the target rather than within a set range, or it just detonates closer/in a more effective range (whatever that may be).
Flak weapons, when there are hostiles in the area, will occasionally fire off bursts as if they're attempting to detect cloaked vessels or knock out jammed ones. Cause it'll look awesome. Plus, there will probably be missiles there anyways in a large battle ... so they'll be in use xD.

I love the idea.

 

[HolyCookie]

I like the idea of a set flak system, to make it dangerous to fly around a vessel.

Improves AMS considerably, but remember, a bursting shell (Even if it bursts on proximity) won't guarantee a hit on a missile, because of the semi-random distribution of cannon rounds from the burst.


This would be an excellent addition with improved warheads. This would balance the use of warheads with a HIGHLY effective counter.
Also, an idea for AI: Give them a "Flak" setting. Targets warheads, then missiles, then fighters, in that order of priority. If they have no targets, fire randomly into space at longer intervals than necessary for reload.

Since when were warheads effective though? I really doubt you need a defensive system for warheads due to the small craters they make.
I like the idea of a flak cannon though, especially if it looks like a real life flak cannon.

 

[Madman198237]

Hence the mention of "excellent addition with IMPROVED warheads".

 

[HolyCookie]

Hence the mention of "excellent addition with IMPROVED warheads".

This would balance the use of warheads with a HIGHLY effective counter.

I read it as improved defences against warheads but I guess I just read it wrong.

 

[Criss]

The minelayer was not scrapped. It was put on indefinite hold and then something new took it's place. Then put on indefinite hold again. Which sucks. It would make things interesting again.

As for flak. Yes please.

IMO the combat in this game is lacking. There are TONS of things that we could do with weapons. I also thing the combo system is limiting up rather than expanding our potential because we run into similar weapons with each new combo. We obviously don't want repeats, which is why we end up with only 4 weapons.

Off the top of my head.
Wave, beam, cannon, missile, torpedo, plasma, flak, electron, rail gun, warhead. All of these could be their own thing. They could have slightly different effects, such as natural explosive effect or ion effect, but they could still be enhanced with other effect modules. The problem comes with customization. The easiest solution is the one we already have. Not sure schema intends to change it ever.

Anyway, your idea is good. I will keep the suggestion archived incase we ever come back to it.

 

[Dannage]

I like the mental image of a ship flying through flak bursts, but it occurs to me... There are 4 weapons, and 4 types of secondary effect, meaning there are really 16 weapons. Multiply that by the 8 or so tertiary effects and you have (I-can't-be-bothered-but-wil-guess-128) lots of weapon combos.

Do we really want new weapons, or is it actually the visual FX of the weapons? If pulse with beam or cannon actually -looked- like flak bursts, would that satisfy folks?

 

[kiddan]

I like the mental image of a ship flying through flak bursts, but it occurs to me... There are 4 weapons, and 4 types of secondary effect, meaning there are really 16 weapons. Multiply that by the 8 or so tertiary effects and you have (I-can't-be-bothered-but-wil-guess-128) lots of weapon combos.

Do we really want new weapons, or is it actually the visual FX of the weapons? If pulse with beam or cannon actually -looked- like flak bursts, would that satisfy folks?

I think something like this would work pretty well, except for the fact that effect modules are pretty straight-forward and identical when combining with other weapons, somewhat eliminating them as a projectile-modifier as they are more of an after-effect modifier.

 

[Lecic]

Wave, beam, cannon, missile, torpedo, plasma, flak, electron, rail gun, warhead.

The main problem I see with adding tons of weapon types is that they should be filling a role rather than just a different look.

For example- flak fills the role of an anti-drone weapon (something we will almost certainly need to keep things balanced as drones get more and more popular). Warheads fill the classic "bomber" role, damaging things much larger than them. Arcing electron weapons would be something that would have the role of anti-turret boat. Minelayers allow for territorial defense.
But what role does a wave fill that a beam doesn't? What role does a torpedo fill that missile, missile/beam, or missile/pulse couldn't fill? What role does a plasma weapon fill that missile/cannon couldn't? What do rail guns do that cannon/beam doesn't?

 

[Comradecolonel]

Do we really want new weapons, or is it actually the visual FX of the weapons? If pulse with beam or cannon actually -looked- like flak bursts, would that satisfy folks?

I think a large part of what makes the combat lack exciting is that the weapons all feel very similiar. Some of the most satisfying shooters that I play all have weapons that feel and play very different. A more diversified look and new sounds would help quite a bit but I believe weapons need to also fire a bit differently.

The charging idea for flak would help make the game less point and shoot. Right now there's not much skill involved in operating many of the weapons. Aiming is important, but other than that if you have the right weapons you just fire away at the enemy.

 

[Nickizzy]

How is a rapidfire midrange machine cannon have the same feel as an alpha strike cruise missile, or a multistaged logic'd Sajuuk(Homeworld 2) style beam destroyer? Yes the secondaries can make some of them sometimes the same, but the things you can use them for are very diverse and creative.

The unimplimented weapons on Chris's list would probably be different, because most of them sound like multistage weapons like flack with an area detonation once close. Some of them do seem similar, like-

The main problem I see with adding tons of weapon types is that they should be filling a role rather than just a different look.

For example- flak fills the role of an anti-drone weapon (something we will almost certainly need to keep things balanced as drones get more and more popular). Warheads fill the classic "bomber" role, damaging things much larger than them. Arcing electron weapons would be something that would have the role of anti-turret boat. Minelayers allow for territorial defense.
But what role does a wave fill that a beam doesn't? What role does a torpedo fill that missile, missile/beam, or missile/pulse couldn't fill? What role does a plasma weapon fill that missile/cannon couldn't? What do rail guns do that cannon/beam doesn't?

Whoops. Never mind. Master ninja Lecic beat me to it. Wave/beam, Missile/torpedo, and railgun/cannon. Besides speed differences, they don't seem that different. Could we get some info about what (for those at least) the differences would be for each weapon? And their intended uses if possible, with pulse included.