Effect Blocks Required Amounts (Weapons Tab)

[Sven_The_Slayer]

The new jump drive tells you exactly how many blocks you need for a 100% effective system, so my question is, why don't the "effect" modules do the same in the weapons tab?

 

[BiGEdge]

the jumpdrive tells you how many block you need to make it work.
the other effects tell you how many % they work.
Thats a big difference.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

the jumpdrive tells you how many block you need to make it work.
the other effects tell you how many % they work.
Thats a big difference.

The jump drive will work with a single block but with diminished results, the effect modules work with a single block but with diminished results. I fail to see the difference but in any case it doesn't matter, we should still be given that information so we can make informed decision if we want to pursue that 100% effective system. I would like to know how many overdrive modules I need for this or that ship and I see no downside to adding it to the weapons tab as I'm sure the game can already calculate how many you would need based on mass or other deciding factors.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

The defensively used effect blocks appear to be bugged. You only ever need one currently. It should be 1 effect module for every 10 mass, but it is more like 1 effect module for an infinite mass right now.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

The defensively used effect blocks appear to be bugged. You only ever need one currently. It should be 1 effect module for every 10 mass, but it is more like 1 effect module for an infinite mass right now.

I'm not sure if that is a bug or just balancing, I noticed a ship I refit only needed 1 which it previously had 4. I wanted to see if it was a bug so I slapped an overdrive on a larger ship and gave it a single module and only got 5%

Edit: I tested this further and it does seem to be just more system balances being worked out in the configs. My smallest corvette needed two over drive modules to reach 100%, a single ion module maxed me out at 60% and would not go higher. Stop was maxed at 75%. Push was still useless for how many blocks you need to get a decent push. I'm glad these are being balanced more but it only reinforces the fact we need a display that tells us how many blocks we need for the max efficiency.

The jump drives being so block heavy (20%) is probably the reason requirements for other modules have been reduced.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

Protip: 75% of the stats in the structure/weapons tabs are broken or just plain wrong

For passive effects I believe it's still 1 block for every 10 mass for 100% efficiency (I may be wrong)

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Protip: 75% of the stats in the structure/weapons tabs are broken or just plain wrong

For passive effects I believe it's still 1 block for every 10 mass for 100% efficiency (I may be wrong)

Yeah the structure tab has not been updated with the new weapons. The Weapons tab however does have accurate information as far as I know. One of the more recent patches has definitely altered the effect modules to need less than 10% I don't have the new numbers but it's kind of nice. It makes the system much more viable IMHO, they have also added hard caps so the system is easy to use but you can't make a ship with twice the shields and 100% armor.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Protip: 75% of the stats in the structure/weapons tabs are broken or just plain wrong

For passive effects I believe it's still 1 block for every 10 mass for 100% efficiency (I may be wrong)

It should have been 1 for 10 mass, I consider it a bug. There was nothing about balancing effects in the news section, so it should be a bug.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

@FunnyBunny14 Like I said, I don't know if that's what it is now (because that message box no longer shows up) but that's what it was before

The Weapons tab however does have accurate information as far as I know.

I've been going through every weapon-weapon-effect combination over the past few days and most of the stuff is correct but occasionally the power consumption or damage per shot listed is different from what it actually does

Some effects also don't seem to be added properly (for example, the amc + damage beam doesn't double the projectile speed like it is supposed to)

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

It should have been 1 for 10 mass, I consider it a bug. There was nothing about balancing effects in the news section, so it should be a bug.

Honestly it shouldn't be 1 for 10 mass. That may have been the previously set config but having a ship have to be 10% an effect block for that effect to be effective is dumb. I can understand the jump drive being 20% (even though I think it's a little high) but not the effect systems. Having to dedicate 1/10th of your ship to an effect just isn't worth it in my book. My fighters were small enough to take advantage of overdrive but anything beyond that never seamed worth it when I can dump another 10% worth of engines, shields, power you name it. The new set up sets a maximum benefit with a much decreased cost allowing us to use multiple systems on a single ship.

Over Drive 1:1000 100%
Ion 1:2000 60%
Pierce 1:1000 30%
Explosive 1:4000 75%
EMP 1:2000 50%
Punch 1:1000 80%
Stop 1:4000 75%

These are the numbers I got through practical testing, the configs validate the max percentage of effect but I could not find any settings for the ratios which are far to varied to just be a bug.

Honestly most of these values shouldn't even be simply based on mass. EMP defense should be based on how many reactors you have, Punch and Pierce based on armor blocks, Ion # of shields, then Explosion, Stop, Push, Pull can be based on mass.

Of course all of this is off topic, but you know what would really clear up this confusion, if the weapon computer told you how many modules you needed to achieve max percentage of efficiency with the given system.

 

[SilentRider_14]

Somewhere someone messed up on the math as by your calculations all defensive systems at max effect would only cost 1% of mass or blocks.Most likely answer the dev moved the decimal two places to the wrong direction .

Jump drives in order to work require a minimum of 5% or 1/20 of mass or blocks not the other way around. And future thruster updates may lower the necessary number of thruster blocks from 25% of a ship to as low as 2% of a ship .

Edit : replaced / with or

 

[DrTarDIS]

so does this mean they ninja'd in different block mass?

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Somewhere someone messed up on the math as by your calculations all defensive systems at max effect would only cost 1% of mass/blocks.Most likely answer the dev moved the decimal two places to the wrong direction .

Jump drives in order to work require a minimum of 5% or 1/20 of mass/blocks not the other way around. And future thruster updates may lower the necessary number of thruster blocks from 25% of a ship to as low as 2% of a ship.

Yeah you're right about the jump drives there, I didn't actually run the numbers tonight and I got them mixed up. For testing the effects I loaded up a core with a mass of power blocks and then checked to see how many of them it would take before the percent efficiency dropped while using an effect computer and single module. There appears to be some rounding (sometimes my mass was 2002 or 2003) errors but I could drop the efficiency from max by removing and a single block.

so does this mean they ninja'd in different block mass?

No all the block mass seems to be the same still. They adjusted the values regarding how many modules you need compared to your mass. I didn't see any setting for this in the config so they might not be released to it yet.

 

[Ghent96]

@FunnyBunny14 Some effects also don't seem to be added properly (for example, the amc + damage beam doesn't double the projectile speed like it is supposed to)

Nerp. As "support" modules, Damage beam as support adds "range", not speed.
x+ AMC = refire speed
x+ Dmg Beam = range
x+ Missile = shotgun/swarm
x+ Dmg Pulse = extra dmg

...and that's really it. Push, Shield, Energy, Salvage don't really do anything as support, afaik.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

while we're on the subject can we at least get a "Array X has Y amount of modules" added to the Structure tab

i would really love an indication on how many blocks are in each of the Cannon arrays so i can balance them easier. Right now i just have to remember how much block i put down. Would be a nightmare trying to equalize the Arrays of massive weapons when your dealing with thousands of blocks and you don't know which arrays is lacking just one block