Docking needs a revamp.

[CyberTao]

You must understand that is isn't only Turrets at question here. The entire docking system is flawed, requiring your core to be completely exposed to dock.

As far as I know, that only applies to Turrets :u unless Fix Docking bugged out.
And I also dont consider that a flaw at all really, Ships Rotate around their cores, so it makes sense to Bring the core as close to the Point of Rotation as you can, and only becomes an issue when the turret clips and points straight up.

 

[Keptick]

Disabling or reducing the 45° free arc of action on turrets, (not ships) would probably help a lot. Gigantic turrets wouldn't be able to track small righters, requiring smaller and faster turning turrets. This would require better turret placement and different turret sizes on ships (over-all more rewarding design).

I can't say that I agree with what I just wrote but it would probably be more balanced. Giant turrets shouldn't be able to track mini-ships anyways.

 

[Elit3]

As far as I know, that only applies to Turrets :u unless Fix Docking bugged out.
And I also dont consider that a flaw at all really, Ships Rotate around their cores, so it makes sense to Bring the core as close to the Point of Rotation as you can, and only becomes an issue when the turret clips and points straight up.

"Ships Rotate around their cores, so it makes sense to Bring the core as close to the Point of Rotation as you can" I remember you saying that this is a sandbox game, so shouldn't I have free will to put my core were I want it, without posing potential issues?

 

[Ciggofwar]

Yes the docking is bugged, for instance to dock my mining barge of 150 meters long, I can make the docking system run with the "C" key of centering, but the docking wants to run on the opposite direction so my landing and docking systems have to be separate and not together

For docking I rely on the "C" key to straighten the ship and lower the ship onto a positioning guild frame, so this feature of docking need to be addressed for this axis plane that does not currently exist. Also the dock ship faces the only one direction rather than the direction I'm in a facing position there is no distinction on the + or - values, the frame needs 3 colours to separate the positive and negative values while in build mode so a player can address which direction the ship faces when docked.

On docking turrets and clipping we need to set the turrets parameters just like we see in the advance build mode of the 3 axis running from the center of the block, with locking values or set values that become firing arcs of fire. So player including ai are limited to the set design of the travel, which is stored into the memory of the unit enhancer. Include can be a "C" for the turret which can be for a single turret or all turrets return to the set home position designated. A system of build planes need to be added after the turret is fitted and constructed, it's a separate program for the memory core.

There is no need for "magic" blocks in the game one size fits all, because thinking is too real!! In our house of gamers of different ages "perhaps" stewart little would be more appropriate for you at this time! It's your frustration not mine! Complexity is apart of game play!

 

[CyberTao]

"Ships Rotate around their cores, so it makes sense to Bring the core as close to the Point of Rotation as you can" I remember you saying that this is a sandbox game, so shouldn't I have free will to put my core were I want it, without posing potential issues?

That is True, but I assume that was done for a reason :u I'm not a Member of Schine, so I wouldnt know the exact reasons, but meh. It makes sense to me cause otherwise they would redo how Docking and rotating is done (which they are working on anyways - 3-)

Also, I dont recall saying Sandbox is "do whatever the hell you want", if I applied that, My mistake. You can do whatever you want, however, if what you want is within the mechanics of the game - 3- ergo, you USE the TOOLS that are given by the game to do what you will. Asking for a Change to the tools simply to do what you could already do with the current tools makes little to no sense to me (the Turret base idea).

Ciggofwar I assume you mean the Lack of Orientation of Docking modules? Stations and Planets have a defined "Forwards", and Docking orientations are set up the same as they were on a ship (Upright is pointing forwards, on the bottom is pointing back, etc). Orientation for Docking modules is Coming I hope - 3- and I'm looking forward to that personally (Embedded Broadsides anyone?)

keptick I think the problem with Reducing the cone of fire, is Turrets are still considered ships. unless you were to Program that into the AI :u which might be what we need anyways.

I feel like I threw this discussion sideways - 3- But I personally don't think there's much wrong with Turrets aside from the Clipping, the AI being dumb (firing at own ship) and the Cone of Fire. Which can be fixed with Improved AI, and for the case of Clipping; Rotor/motors and Limiting the Turning arcs of the turret. Neither of which I would recommend working on now though, simply because of how often Turrets run into Problems.

 

[Elit3]

That is True, but I assume that was done for a reason :u I'm not a Member of Schine, so I wouldnt know the exact reasons, but meh. It makes sense to me cause otherwise they would redo how Docking and rotating is done (which they are working on anyways - 3-)

Also, I dont recall saying Sandbox is "do whatever the hell you want", if I applied that, My mistake. You can do whatever you want, however, if what you want is within the mechanics of the game - 3- ergo, you USE the TOOLS that are given by the game to do what you will. Asking for a Change to the tools simply to do what you could already do with the current tools makes little to no sense to me (the Turret base idea).

Ciggofwar I assume you mean the Lack of Orientation of Docking modules? Stations and Planets have a defined "Forwards", and Docking orientations are set up the same as they were on a ship (Upright is pointing forwards, on the bottom is pointing back, etc). Orientation for Docking modules is Coming I hope - 3- and I'm looking forward to that personally (Embedded Broadsides anyone?)

keptick I think the problem with Reducing the cone of fire, is Turrets are still considered ships. unless you were to Program that into the AI :u which might be what we need anyways.

I feel like I threw this discussion sideways - 3- But I personally don't think there's much wrong with Turrets aside from the Clipping, the AI being dumb (firing at own ship) and the Cone of Fire. Which can be fixed with Improved AI, and for the case of Clipping; Rotor/motors and Limiting the Turning arcs of the turret. Neither of which I would recommend working on now though, simply because of how often Turrets run into Problems.

I too, don't have an issue with the Turret system, its just fixed docking. There is so much potential that can't be explored because of game limitations.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

I've said it in another thread but it seems i have to repeat myself - docking modules based on mass.

I dare You to find problems with that system.

I mean:

• players would clearly see if their ship is too massive (there can be this little alert in up-right corner saying "Your mass is over 9000, module can dock ships with max mass 9000")
• enhancers would stay, enhancing the mass specific module could handle
• no problems with green box
• orientation of docked ship would be determined by the orientation of dock module
• before docking the game would calculate if there was supposed to be any overlapping of blocks or some kind of collisions after docking, if yes, then the docking is not possible.

BAM, problems gone.

BTW i edited my post with turrets system with a solution, so it won't break current system.
Anyway i know it's not a huuuuugeeee change in turret system, but i still think that'd work better. Even better if we could rotate part of turret to go up/down.

Everyone satisfied, my job is done :D

 

[CyberTao]

I personally Believe Mass related docking would cause more Clipping issues then the current system with turrets - 3- since the docking Box also helps in a way to make sure there is nothing in its way.

For Fixed docking, yeah. I could get used to that :u but Orientational Docking is probably the only Point I would throw a fix over if I didnt get it.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

There wouldn't be any clippings! Firstly the server could check basic dimensions of the ships and compare them to free space. If there would be any second thoughts, server could start more detailed checking, and if that would also show collision warning, then the docking isn't allowed.
Once the ship is docked, it's position is fixed, so no collision and easy source for clipping calculations.

At least I think it might work that way, i'm not a programmer, coder, or whatever


And to the orientation of docked ships i think it's the best idea. Firstly because there aren't many discussions about orientation of docked ships, so i haven't met many other solutions, and secondly because it makes dock orientated in the fixed direction.

 

[CyberTao]

Well docking Orientation is something that was talked about on Public chat abit, its something we are more waiting for and expecting... So dont really need to make a Thread about it - 3- since everyone wants it (or the majority at least) and the Dev team knows that.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

I'm curious what are the ideas for this.

Also Dev team knows we want FTL, moar NPCs, shipyards, animals, writing panels, and more decorative blocks, but still threads with these topics are made.

 

[NeonSturm]

Docking-box:

• a limit on size
• a way to make sure, two things dock not at the same mother-ship place to make calculations easier.
• ...

Anti-clipping-code:

3DArray/Linked-List/Whatever xy[x,y] = { 0: lowest-z-block's z, 1: highest-z-block's z }
Same for xz[x, z] = { min + max y } and for yz[y, z] = { min + max x }

You now have a -negative +positive 2D high-map for each x/y/z axis. Free space in-between is not important for docking checks.
Now check the docking-area's xy vs ship xy, docking-area's xz vs ship xz, docking-area's yz vs ship yz.

A |---| ship can dock on a |__'__| docking port.
' can be a ramp to the ship's entrance.
This check has not to be done by the server before someone tries to actually dock something and then only once.

Just disallow changes (building new blocks) to the docking area except bulk-submit to reduce lags.from permanent re-calculations.​

 

[Trafalgar]

You must understand that is isn't only Turrets at question here. The entire docking system is flawed, requiring your core to be completely exposed to dock.

Regular ships can dock just fine with the core at any position vertically, without having an impact on dockability, as long as you aren't docking them in a turret dock.

I've said it in another thread but it seems i have to repeat myself - docking modules based on mass.

I dare You to find problems with that system.

If docking modules were testing for possible collisions when docking, this kind of system might work. So far as I'm aware, they still aren't, so you'd still clip into things if your ship was inside the mass limits but too large for the space the docking modules are in, or if there isn't enough room between docking modules for the ships you're trying to dock, etc.

 

[Elit3]

Regular ships can dock just fine with the core at any position vertically, without having an impact on dockability, as long as you aren't docking them in a turret dock.



If docking modules were testing for possible collisions when docking, this kind of system might work. So far as I'm aware, they still aren't, so you'd still clip into things if your ship was inside the mass limits but too large for the space the docking modules are in, or if there isn't enough room between docking modules for the ships you're trying to dock, etc.

I haven't been able to dock them.